Jonathan O'Rourke

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sven_inc said:
Thats the thing about him isnt it. Everyone judges him harshly because he was #2 and he's been around for a while. But he's literally never had a chance to develop his game at the elite level.

We all understood Jaegers first year back from 2 out would he a waiting game and we realise that he's still not where we expect him to 12 months later, yet JOR is in the same boat. Hadnt played for 2 years and has played 2 games in 3 weeks. If he can just do enough to get another contract I want to see him after 20 odd games in a row. Then we can start to get a sense of what his football is like
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:thumbsu:
 

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hk89 said:
Quite a few phantom drafts done by the media back in 2012 had him top 5, and a couple top 2 (from those I could find). Some had him outside the top 10, so his ranking wasn't completely uncontroversial. I wonder how much what we are seeing now is the product of a kid who has had the confidence beaten out of him over the last 6 years due to his constant stream of injuries. Kicking and clean skills in general were seen as major strengths by most draft pundits back in 2012, so unless injury has completely ruined his body in that regard, there is some hope that with more confidence he can still be a very good player if his body stops letting him down. Will take significant time to get that confidence though I would think. if he can play out the rest of the season without injury , I'd be inclined to offer him at least another 1 year contract. it is very rare for clubs to get a #2 pick wrong these days with all the effort that goes into talent identification, so I expect the class is still there if he can get a decent run at it.
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That's the thing to me, of his games I've seen one where I thought he showed clean skills all game, just hit his targets that day, his weapon is his athleticism and it's above average, the movement looks good but hamstrings may have taken just enough speed to hurt his game. O'Meara looked a little down on confidence in his body day 1 but showed enough to get excited. Worpel was considered a terrible kick in the draft, this will sound harsh but he and Miles have played better games than any of O'Rourke's and they have as many games as O'Rourke's between them and are much younger.

The club has always said O'Brien has all the talent in the world as well, and I was super high on O'Brien's athleticism and kicking action, now O'Rourke has not been getting as many games but seems at a similar level of effectiveness at the same age.

Am totally on board for O'Rourke to play some consistent footy and make me excited for him, but at the moment I gotta be honest and say, well Lovell is probably going to be on the list next year and O'Rourke is unlikely to be unless he plays a few good consistent games to finish the year, but one is getting games and the other isn't, why do we keep doing that with players that leave the next year either in FA without an offer or just get axed? Who was the last guy for us that played some good footy in the last few games of a year, probably prevented a delisting and went on to be a good player for this club? Genuinely pulling for O'Rourke to be the first I can remember, it would be a great story.
 
TallyHawk said:
I didn't mind Jono's game linked up well with the handball and made good decisions in contested situations. I'm hoping he gets on the move more and gets some more outside ball and use his kicking skills more.


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Getting more outside ball in attacking positions is exactly what he needs to do. We don’t need him to be the number one inside mid, we need him to be inside and outside.
 
If people can't see the progression in the kid in just the last 3 weeks you have rocks in your head, slowly and slowly they are increasing his game time. Yesterday he actually had the confidence to physically take hits and give them back, his cleanliness improved substantially and his overall running capacity improved hence why he was getting some easy footy on the spread.

In reality we have a 2nd year footballer, this is legitimately the 1st time in his whole career his has put together a dozen games in a row at senior level (VFL and AFL). The more I watch him, the more I feel with confidence he will become a very decent B-Grade and supporting mid to our top liners.
 
Jables said:
That's the thing to me, of his games I've seen one where I thought he showed clean skills all game, just hit his targets that day, his weapon is his athleticism and it's above average, the movement looks good but hamstrings may have taken just enough speed to hurt his game. O'Meara looked a little down on confidence in his body day 1 but showed enough to get excited. Worpel was considered a terrible kick in the draft, this will sound harsh but he and Miles have played better games than any of O'Rourke's and they have as many games as O'Rourke's between them and are much younger.

The club has always said O'Brien has all the talent in the world as well, and I was super high on O'Brien's athleticism and kicking action, now O'Rourke has not been getting as many games but seems at a similar level of effectiveness at the same age.

Am totally on board for O'Rourke to play some consistent footy and make me excited for him, but at the moment I gotta be honest and say, well Lovell is probably going to be on the list next year and O'Rourke is unlikely to be unless he plays a few good consistent games to finish the year, but one is getting games and the other isn't, why do we keep doing that with players that leave the next year either in FA without an offer or just get axed? Who was the last guy for us that played some good footy in the last few games of a year, probably prevented a delisting and went on to be a good player for this club? Genuinely pulling for O'Rourke to be the first I can remember, it would be a great story.
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All the testing the club has done shows he hasn't lost any of his speed.
 
MrPremiership said:
All the testing the club has done shows he hasn't lost any of his speed.
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Gets caught from behind pretty easily right now. First couple of steps are good and then the panic sets in when he knows he can't go up a gear and stay in the clear.

I'm not nearly as impressed as others here seem to be, but that's all good because he doesn't need to impress me.

What I liked last game: He was much harder around the contest, read the bumbling ball as it was spilling and backed himself to get in, either try and pick up or knock on. Haven't seen much of that tbh so liked it quite alot.

And that was it.

What I don't like:
He can't break away and his lateral movement with ball in hand is weak. He can feel the pressure coming and starts to squirm looking to avoid whilst failing to determine his best next course of disposal.

Put his teammates under plenty of hammer with panic handball and disposal. Had some good ones in too of course, you'd hope so for an AFL footballer, but I think he's 30% worse with the ball in hand than Teia.

Has no aerial ability whatsoever, so doesn't give a point of difference to titch, JOM, Shiels.
Would love a taller big bodied mid who was dangerous in marking situations to add to what we can do.

Does he have a left side?


What I just don't get with the JOR support is there seems to be some feeling like there is more importance to us finding a way to making it work for him, than with other players on the list?
Who gives a crap how he got to us, what draft pick he was, how long it's taken, yada yada.
We have no more reason for wanting him to be first 22 than any other mid we have on the list we need some more run and creativity from.

The jonesing for him to play every game regardless of whether his form dictates it over making this new Hawthorn best 22 the most dangerous it can be going forward is bloody vexing.:think:
 
flinchfree said:
Gets caught from behind pretty easily right now. First couple of steps are good and then the panic sets in when he knows he can't go up a gear and stay in the clear.

I'm not nearly as impressed as others here seem to be, but that's all good because he doesn't need to impress me.

What I liked last game: He was much harder around the contest, read the bumbling ball as it was spilling and backed himself to get in, either try and pick up or knock on. Haven't seen much of that tbh so liked it quite alot.

And that was it.

What I don't like:
He can't break away and his lateral movement with ball in hand is weak. He can feel the pressure coming and starts to squirm looking to avoid whilst failing to determine his best next course of disposal.

Put his teammates under plenty of hammer with panic handball and disposal. Had some good ones in too of course, you'd hope so for an AFL footballer, but I think he's 30% worse with the ball in hand than Teia.

Has no aerial ability whatsoever, so doesn't give a point of difference to titch, JOM, Shiels.
Would love a taller big bodied mid who was dangerous in marking situations to add to what we can do.

Does he have a left side?


What I just don't get with the JOR support is there seems to be some feeling like there is more importance to us finding a way to making it work for him, than with other players on the list?
Who gives a crap how he got to us, what draft pick he was, how long it's taken, yada yada.
We have no more reason for wanting him to be first 22 than any other mid we have on the list we need some more run and creativity from.

The jonesing for him to play every game regardless of whether his form dictates it over making this new Hawthorn best 22 the most dangerous it can be going forward is bloody vexing.:think:
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Relax mate, just wanna see how he goes with a few games under his belt. It’s either him or Langford!!
 
flinchfree said:
Gets caught from behind pretty easily right now. First couple of steps are good and then the panic sets in when he knows he can't go up a gear and stay in the clear.

I'm not nearly as impressed as others here seem to be, but that's all good because he doesn't need to impress me.

What I liked last game: He was much harder around the contest, read the bumbling ball as it was spilling and backed himself to get in, either try and pick up or knock on. Haven't seen much of that tbh so liked it quite alot.

And that was it.

What I don't like:
He can't break away and his lateral movement with ball in hand is weak. He can feel the pressure coming and starts to squirm looking to avoid whilst failing to determine his best next course of disposal.

Put his teammates under plenty of hammer with panic handball and disposal. Had some good ones in too of course, you'd hope so for an AFL footballer, but I think he's 30% worse with the ball in hand than Teia.

Has no aerial ability whatsoever, so doesn't give a point of difference to titch, JOM, Shiels.
Would love a taller big bodied mid who was dangerous in marking situations to add to what we can do.

Does he have a left side?


What I just don't get with the JOR support is there seems to be some feeling like there is more importance to us finding a way to making it work for him, than with other players on the list?
Who gives a crap how he got to us, what draft pick he was, how long it's taken, yada yada.
We have no more reason for wanting him to be first 22 than any other mid we have on the list we need some more run and creativity from.

The jonesing for him to play every game regardless of whether his form dictates it over making this new Hawthorn best 22 the most dangerous it can be going forward is bloody vexing.:think:
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Im with the other camp. Was pleased with his continuing improvement yesterday. Without looking at stats it felt as though he was more involved in the game. Used the pill Ok. If he can continue to improve and keep the strings on the bone then we might have a best 22 player on our hands. Big if but we are all hoping Jono can get a run at it.
 

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flinchfree said:
Gets caught from behind pretty easily right now. First couple of steps are good and then the panic sets in when he knows he can't go up a gear and stay in the clear.

I'm not nearly as impressed as others here seem to be, but that's all good because he doesn't need to impress me.

What I liked last game: He was much harder around the contest, read the bumbling ball as it was spilling and backed himself to get in, either try and pick up or knock on. Haven't seen much of that tbh so liked it quite alot.

And that was it.

What I don't like:
He can't break away and his lateral movement with ball in hand is weak. He can feel the pressure coming and starts to squirm looking to avoid whilst failing to determine his best next course of disposal.

Put his teammates under plenty of hammer with panic handball and disposal. Had some good ones in too of course, you'd hope so for an AFL footballer, but I think he's 30% worse with the ball in hand than Teia.

Has no aerial ability whatsoever, so doesn't give a point of difference to titch, JOM, Shiels.
Would love a taller big bodied mid who was dangerous in marking situations to add to what we can do.

Does he have a left side?


What I just don't get with the JOR support is there seems to be some feeling like there is more importance to us finding a way to making it work for him, than with other players on the list?
Who gives a crap how he got to us, what draft pick he was, how long it's taken, yada yada.
We have no more reason for wanting him to be first 22 than any other mid we have on the list we need some more run and creativity from.

The jonesing for him to play every game regardless of whether his form dictates it over making this new Hawthorn best 22 the most dangerous it can be going forward is bloody vexing.:think:
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I would be all for him not getting games IF we had anyone what so ever, even close to being of AFL standard in the reserves. Kieran Lovell is miles off it, Cuz has had ample opportunity and probably needs more development at VFL level and Langers is well.... Langers. We also have injuries, Howe isn't playing, Sicily and Birch still out and then we need to make room for BB.

On yesterdays performance he is 50/50 to keep his spot come finals time, the beauty of whats happening at the minute is he has the chance to cement a spot and each week he has shown significant improvement.

What would your thoughts be if he came in against Essendon and improved again? went from 20p 4 tackle 2 clearance game to a 24p 6 tackle 4 clearance game? It's hard to ignore the improvements.
 
Wasn't nearly as bad as some people suggest - did some clever things off the ball also. Hardwick did his utmost to give Freo a few goal assists yesterday down back but has escaped any criticism in the autopsy thread because he otherwise did his usual good stuff. I think some people are just waiting to see JOR make mistakes so they can justify their pre-conceived negativity about him.

Should retain his place in the side. If there is anyone to be dropped from the side yesterday to make way for Morrison it should be Whitecross.
 
He isn't going flat chat yet still going 3/4trs probably by JR's direction. I have seen him go much quicker. Its about getting game time and building confidence in his body. Will he have time to do it? With our injuries I think he is a chance. See how we go
 
Is probably safe for next year, given the cash we have and nobody to spend it on.

I hope we keep playing him, because i want to see what everyone else saw before he got drafted. Kid was elite ffs since he was a little tacker....you just can't lose it
 
Collins-Langford-Ayres said:
I thought he was really unclean, even for a player with limited AFL-level experience. In addition, he is a pretty vanilla kick. How he went pick 2 still baffles me. Hopefully another game and it keeps clicking for him.
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weak draft and wasn't pick 2 from us, he's not a long kick but he's a very accurate field kick, something we don't have enough of running through the middle whic his one of the reasons the club have persisted with him so long

Hawk_francais said:
Ps Did anyone else think that he looked absolutely stuffed after about quarter time?

I think he had a little niggle earlier in the year, but he got a full preseason, right?
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had a Hammy in the preseason

Baz_hawk said:
Should play for the rest of the year, if he does I suspect that'd be his longest stint in the seniors ever?
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played 8 games in a row in 2014 at GWS season at GWS, most games he's played of AFL in his career and we traded for him at the end of that year
most games he has played in a row as a Hawk was 7 in 2016

tige19 said:
If people can't see the progression in the kid in just the last 3 weeks you have rocks in your head, slowly and slowly they are increasing his game time. Yesterday he actually had the confidence to physically take hits and give them back, his cleanliness improved substantially and his overall running capacity improved hence why he was getting some easy footy on the spread.

In reality we have a 2nd year footballer, this is legitimately the 1st time in his whole career his has put together a dozen games in a row at senior level (VFL and AFL). The more I watch him, the more I feel with confidence he will become a very decent B-Grade and supporting mid to our top liners.
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club certainly likes what he can bring on field, our midfield depth would improve dramatically if he showed over the next month that his body was finally right and that he was able to play at the level
 
tige19 said:
If people can't see the progression in the kid in just the last 3 weeks you have rocks in your head, slowly and slowly they are increasing his game time. Yesterday he actually had the confidence to physically take hits and give them back, his cleanliness improved substantially and his overall running capacity improved hence why he was getting some easy footy on the spread.

In reality we have a 2nd year footballer, this is legitimately the 1st time in his whole career his has put together a dozen games in a row at senior level (VFL and AFL). The more I watch him, the more I feel with confidence he will become a very decent B-Grade and supporting mid to our top liners.
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I think you should be driving the Jonno bus mate. There are a few who already have tickets.
Jonno & Timmy we’re my underdogs after Gus was ousted.
... I can’t win em all
 
Seemed to be playing a more inside role - had some quick and clean hands in the middle of the pack a few times and seemed to track the ball okay. Has a few moves in traffic but is lacking some confidence. Is a bit lost in open play at present and made a few errors but that may come with a few more games. Showed enough to keep getting a game.
 
Jables said:
Am totally on board for O'Rourke to play some consistent footy and make me excited for him, but at the moment I gotta be honest and say, well Lovell is probably going to be on the list next year and O'Rourke is unlikely to be unless he plays a few good consistent games to finish the year, but one is getting games and the other isn't, why do we keep doing that with players that leave the next year either in FA without an offer or just get axed? Who was the last guy for us that played some good footy in the last few games of a year, probably prevented a delisting and went on to be a good player for this club? Genuinely pulling for O'Rourke to be the first I can remember, it would be a great story.
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I think when the club does that, it is because they are genuinely not sure. The club plays the player they are considering dropping if they still believe there is some talent there in the hope it will finally start to shine through, and then can feel better about dropping him from the list if nothing shows up. I'm not surprised it doesn't work out well very often, there are probably lots of reasons why a player hasn't shown their innate talent by that stage. In cases where it is a confidence issue, it is also doubly hard for that player to perform, getting your confidence back when you are already down , but now under the pressure of knowing these are your final AFL chance games, must be very very difficult.

I'd be more than a bit fumbly if I'd had 6 confidence sapping years of injury and was then placed in a situation where I was fairly sure this was my last shot at my dream. That's why I'm hoping the club is going to be looking more at whether his body can handle top level footy than his raw output in these handful of games he's been given. Have some trust in the reasons he was originally rated so highly, and conclude that if his body is ok, the rest will start to follow.

Personally I don't think he's performing at a significantly lower level than say cousins was at AFL level when he was given games, so I don't think we are costing ourselves playing him at this stage. In fact, he may be our lucky charm, given we are currently 3-0 in games he has played this year, with a whopping percentage of 218% :)
 
sven_inc said:
Thats the thing about him isnt it. Everyone judges him harshly because he was #2 and he's been around for a while. But he's literally never had a chance to develop his game at the elite level.

We all understood Jaegers first year back from 2 out would he a waiting game and we realise that he's still not where we expect him to 12 months later, yet JOR is in the same boat. Hadnt played for 2 years and has played 2 games in 3 weeks. If he can just do enough to get another contract I want to see him after 20 odd games in a row. Then we can start to get a sense of what his football is like
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Yup, I'd much rather take a chance with him next year and not use pick 70+ in the draft than clear him out at the end of this year, just when his string of consecutive VFL games have started to indicate his body may be turning the corner in terms of constant injuries. The upside of him potentially showing the potential so many saw back in 2012 if he gets a good run at it is IMO a lot bigger than the upside of the possibility of pick 70+ being a diamond in the rough. Of course at some stage you have to admit a player isn't going to make it, and cut your losses. Just think we are perhaps 1 year too early if we do that now.
 
TheFourPillars said:
He isn't going flat chat yet still going 3/4trs probably by JR's direction. I have seen him go much quicker. Its about getting game time and building confidence in his body. Will he have time to do it? With our injuries I think he is a chance. See how we go
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That's right: he's only played 21 games, 12 of them for us.

It's really unfair to judge him on the handful of games he's had this year. So many injuries that he really needs a full 15-20 consecutive games to get fitness, confidence and a bit of steel into his muscles. And to gel with teammates.

Give him time.
 
I feel his games are pretty similar to Jaeger's games last year. Always looks under the pump and getting caught a lot. It will take a bit of time to get the fitness, confidence and awareness to be able to break away from the congestion and get a clean pass. The good thing is he got to the contests and got his hands on it.

He also needs to get to know the system better and run to better spots. There were a few times when he ran to the same spot as a teammate and was just left standing beside them while they took possession. It's good that he's there for the outnumber but in time he will know to push down further and create the next option.

I think we play him unless someone demands the spot from him or he is really poor. Give him another 1 year contract, and see how he can go with injuries behind him and a few games under his belt.
 

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