Jonathan O'Rourke

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What do people see in him?

I want him to succeed too, but I don't get it. Is it just the pick 2 status?

He has no attribute that stands out whatsoever to me. Almost every player who makes it shows at least one defining attribute very quickly.

Random examples:

- Worpell - Kicking and hardness
- Morrison - speed and endurance
- Hardwick - Remember how clean he was right from the start and how hard 'pardon the pun'
- Howe - tough as shit, our next Sewell
- Mitchell Lewis (to be extreme) played maybe two games and probably got the same touches. But he clearly has a footy brain because he got to so many contests.

JOR has only played 20 games and had so many injuries, but I can't see a single thing that tells me he is a player worth all this discussion. He gets pushed off the ball easily, he has low evasive skills, he hasn't cracked into a single contested situation I have seen. The only thing I could possibly suggest (maybe) is he seems to get better as the game goes on, but maybe that's like a boxer who doesn't throw a punch until round 10.

This is not me beating up on him, I just wish I understood the fascination. I hope he thrives, but if he does it will be a surprise to me.
 

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H2F said:
What do people see in him?

I want him to succeed too, but I don't get it. Is it just the pick 2 status?

He has no attribute that stands out whatsoever to me. Almost every player who makes it shows at least one defining attribute very quickly.

Random examples:

- Worpell - Kicking and hardness
- Morrison - speed and endurance
- Hardwick - Remember how clean he was right from the start and how hard 'pardon the pun'
- Howe - tough as shit, our next Sewell
- Mitchell Lewis (to be extreme) played maybe two games and probably got the same touches. But he clearly has a footy brain because he got to so many contests.

JOR has only played 20 games and had so many injuries, but I can't see a single thing that tells me he is a player worth all this discussion. He gets pushed off the ball easily, he has low evasive skills, he hasn't cracked into a single contested situation I have seen. The only thing I could possibly suggest (maybe) is he seems to get better as the game goes on, but maybe that's like a boxer who doesn't throw a punch until round 10.

This is not me beating up on him, I just wish I understood the fascination. I hope he thrives, but if he does it will be a surprise to me.
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My thoughts exactly.

Absolutely baffling he went at pick 2.
 
SA HAWK said:
My thoughts exactly.

Absolutely baffling he went at pick 2.
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Hey it's not his fault he was a pick 2. He also had to start his career interstate and has had a ton of injuries.

But despite all that he has shown nothing to me that I can comprehend all the chat about.

Remember Hodgey's entrance to AFL, OP riddled and borderline fat but he started belting Selwood in one of his first games. Likewise Jonathon Brown and punched a few laser passes, whilst gasping for air 30 secs into a quarter.

As I said I don't want people to think I am beating up on him. I just don't get the interest whatsoever. If he makes it as a regular player I'd be wrapped but is there anyone who could even suggest what type of player he would be? Inside, outside, elite kicker, heck ruckman.

Obviously being flippant now, but I just don't get it. We should be playing Cousins or Glass or even Jiath instead?

Anyway, he was dropped so it's a moot point. Just wish I knew what the fascination is with him.
 
H2F said:
Hey it's not his fault he was a pick 2. He also had to start his career interstate and has had a ton of injuries.

But despite all that he has shown nothing to me that I can comprehend all the chat about.

Remember Hodgey's entrance to AFL, OP riddled and borderline fat but he started belting Selwood in one of his first games. Likewise Jonathon Brown and punched a few laser passes, whilst gasping for air 30 secs into a quarter.

As I said I don't want people to think I am beating up on him. I just don't get the interest whatsoever. If he makes it as a regular player I'd be wrapped but is there anyone who could even suggest what type of player he would be? Inside, outside, elite kicker, heck ruckman.

Obviously being flippant now, but I just don't get it. We should be playing Cousins or Glass or even Jiath instead?

Anyway, he was dropped so it's a moot point. Just wish I knew what the fascination is with him.
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I remember him giving to Brad Ottens in his very first game he wasn't even 18 at the time.
 
SA HAWK said:
I remember him giving to Brad Ottens in his very first game he wasn't even 18 at the time.
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I remember those first few games of Hodgey. He couldn't run, wasn't fit or remotely ready to play.

But he made every moment matter.

What a gun he is. Even as a pensioner at Brisbane that club is becoming something. Hodge being there is likely the biggest factor.
 
H2F said:
Remember Hodgey's entrance to AFL, OP riddled and borderline fat but he started belting Selwood in one of his first games.
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I think time has clouded your memory of how quickly Hodge developed.

In his first 3 years in the system he averaged 15, 12 and 15 possessions per game. It wasn't until his 4th year when he broke through and averaged 27, and that was after 3 previous years of getting 15 games a season. I get what you are saying about "showing something" and that Hodge "showed something" in those early low possession years, that JOR has not. But on the flip side I think you overestimate how easy it is to "show something" when for example your first year you play 1 game because you injured yourself in pre-season, and then had a stream of injuries after that leading you to have 20 AFL games in 6 years. Hodge had 45 in his first 3 years, and still didn't manage to average more possessions than what JOR has averaged this year until his 4th year of getting a continual run at it.

I can see why people are not super excited by what they see on the ground right now (or for that matter for his entire 20 AFL games thus far). I guess you have to decide if you think everything said about him in his draft year was blind optimism and he didn't really have any of those traits at all, or that his completely messed up development arc has meant we've never seen those attributes at AFL level. It isn't just the development issues either, its the confidence blow those years would have dealt him, and the difficulty that creates in him playing the natural game that people liked so much when they saw him play junior footy. I can't say I remember his footy at GWS in the early days (what little of it there was). Perhaps there was more to like back then, although given they traded him for fairly little, perhaps not. His pre-draft interviews makes him look like a pretty shy kid. I wonder how those types handle moving interstate away from family at such a young age. Especially to a new club trying to build a culture that would likely have a less developed support system than the big Melbourne clubs.
 
hk89 said:
I think time has clouded your memory of how quickly Hodge developed.

In his first 3 years in the system he averaged 15, 12 and 15 possessions per game. It wasn't until his 4th year when he broke through and averaged 27, and that was after 3 previous years of getting 15 games a season. I get what you are saying about "showing something" and that Hodge "showed something" in those early low possession years, that JOR has not. But on the flip side I think you overestimate how easy it is to "show something" when for example your first year you play 1 game because you injured yourself in pre-season, and then had a stream of injuries after that leading you to have 20 AFL games in 6 years. Hodge had 45 in his first 3 years, and still didn't manage to average more possessions than what JOR has averaged this year until his 4th year of getting a continual run at it.

I can see why people are not super excited by what they see on the ground right now (or for that matter for his entire 20 AFL games thus far). I guess you have to decide if you think everything said about him in his draft year was blind optimism and he didn't really have any of those traits at all, or that his completely messed up development arc has meant we've never seen those attributes at AFL level. It isn't just the development issues either, its the confidence blow those years would have dealt him, and the difficulty that creates in him playing the natural game that people liked so much when they saw him play junior footy. I can't say I remember his footy at GWS in the early days (what little of it there was). Perhaps there was more to like back then, although given they traded him for fairly little, perhaps not. His pre-draft interviews makes him look like a pretty shy kid. I wonder how those types handle moving interstate away from family at such a young age. Especially to a new club trying to build a culture that would likely have a less developed support system than the big Melbourne clubs.
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Great post and no questioning any of that mate.

I'm just saying what is the fascination with him? I remember being at the G in one of Hodges first games and watching him belt Jonathon Brown. So stats mean little to me, I knew then he was something special. Even battlers/journey men like say Duryea has always shown immense courage.

As I said I am not beating him up and get all of the above post. I just don't understand the interest and never have. Savage and I have been arguing for years who called Brand out first, whilst no one thought he'd make it. Look at last week, he is IMO going to be a player for us. I'm just looking for random examples as a theme to say the same thing over. I'll stop now but my point being, JOR hasn't shown me at least a single defining trait. Last week against Freo (sure they were shit) but the whole team really cracked in you could see it. WIth one exception and it's why he was dropped.

Anyway this is sounding far more negative than intended. I just hope the best for him but don't see the fascination. If he makes it, I'll be stunned. But happy for him of course.
 
It is conceivable that he could have a good run with his body and make it as a solid AFL player. But seems extremely unlikely to be a world beater. I would say the risk of letting him go and getting egg on our faces is extremely low.

Better off throwing another dart at the draft. If we end up with a kid like Morrison or Worpel, then we come out ahead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I do have a question for anyone with insight...

JOR’s problem has been his body. The last five years the theory has been ‘if he can just have one good preseason - let’s just give him next year and see...’

Has his body turned a corner? Is there genuine reason to believe that the next twelve months ‘could be the year’? Or are we in the same position we’ve been in every year?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
What I get most peeved about is the little up-and-under handballs to a teammate under pressure.

Surely in all these injured years he could have worked on that.

He only needs to copy JOM. His handballs are as good as a kick... And low and hard... Not up and under.
 

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H2F said:
What do people see in him?

I want him to succeed too, but I don't get it. Is it just the pick 2 status?

He has no attribute that stands out whatsoever to me. Almost every player who makes it shows at least one defining attribute very quickly.

Random examples:

- Worpell - Kicking and hardness
- Morrison - speed and endurance
- Hardwick - Remember how clean he was right from the start and how hard 'pardon the pun'
- Howe - tough as shit, our next Sewell
- Mitchell Lewis (to be extreme) played maybe two games and probably got the same touches. But he clearly has a footy brain because he got to so many contests.

JOR has only played 20 games and had so many injuries, but I can't see a single thing that tells me he is a player worth all this discussion. He gets pushed off the ball easily, he has low evasive skills, he hasn't cracked into a single contested situation I have seen. The only thing I could possibly suggest (maybe) is he seems to get better as the game goes on, but maybe that's like a boxer who doesn't throw a punch until round 10.

This is not me beating up on him, I just wish I understood the fascination. I hope he thrives, but if he does it will be a surprise to me.
Click to expand...


this is exactly my position on JOR, i remember when this forum was obsessed with getting JOR 3 years ago and i had not seen him play and so assumed because he was pick 2 and there was a lot of people in this forum desperate to get him over to us that he would be talented at least, same excuses about injury, GWS training letting him down, GWS medical staff letting him down ect

so when he came over and had his first game i watched the game and realised he had very little to offer, i have been a talent spotter for years, so i can spot talent quickly(check out my draft preview page https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/davo-27s-2018-afl-draft-watch.1198126/ ) and he looked really bad, he got better after a few months of being trained into playing our way, but he was still very poor, his disposal isnt good, his handball is better than his kick, he isnt a great mark and doesnt have clean hands, he isnt fast at all, he has no x-factor, if he gets surrounded he cant find a way out, he turns the ball over too often, he has nothing to make him a pick 2 which leads me to believe that the draft he was taken in was a poor draft pool year and we made a mistake, i made a mistake listening to some here that were obsessed with getting him over.

i have heard a few diehards say, we can use him for depth, we can continue to develop him, we can give him a run of games until he finally comes right, we can keep him on in case he matures later ect ect ect, but he has no talent, thats what they dont understand, he has no fitness, no speed, no strength, no elite disposal, he isnt clean with disposal, he has no x-factor, he has no evasive skills....HE HAS NOTHING, i dont mean to be harsh, but its just true, he's a generic second tier league midfielder, with no elite talents
 
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Death Cab said:
I do have a question for anyone with insight...

JOR’s problem has been his body. The last five years the theory has been ‘if he can just have one good preseason - let’s just give him next year and see...’

Has his body turned a corner? Is there genuine reason to believe that the next twelve months ‘could be the year’? Or are we in the same position we’ve been in every year?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

even if he had no injury, the fact he has no talent means he will never make it at the AFL level....
 
H2F said:
Great post and no questioning any of that mate.

I'm just saying what is the fascination with him? I remember being at the G in one of Hodges first games and watching him belt Jonathon Brown. So stats mean little to me, I knew then he was something special. Even battlers/journey men like say Duryea has always shown immense courage.

As I said I am not beating him up and get all of the above post. I just don't understand the interest and never have. Savage and I have been arguing for years who called Brand out first, whilst no one thought he'd make it. Look at last week, he is IMO going to be a player for us. I'm just looking for random examples as a theme to say the same thing over. I'll stop now but my point being, JOR hasn't shown me at least a single defining trait. Last week against Freo (sure they were shit) but the whole team really cracked in you could see it. WIth one exception and it's why he was dropped.

Anyway this is sounding far more negative than intended. I just hope the best for him but don't see the fascination. If he makes it, I'll be stunned. But happy for him of course.
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What stood out to me from his junior days (didn’t see heaps of him) was that he was clean off the deck, could use his legs to get into space and was a composed user of the ball. He looked like the prototype inside/outside player. At box hill he seems to be the stand out for decision making and ball use, especially by foot. So at least part of his junior skill set has transferred to at least vfl level.

I think he lacks a lot of confidence in his body and he holds himself back. 4P has said he has been instructed to play within his limits. So the question for me is will he be able to get enough confidence in his body to use his speed, agility and endurance so he can be more effective at afl level? He is of the type that we really need it’s just that all the pieces ar not in harmony.
 
Davo-27 said:
this is exactly my position on JOR, i remember when this forum was obsessed with getting JOR 3 years ago and i had not seen him play and so assumed because he was pick 2 and there was a lot of people in this forum desperate to get him over to us that he would be talented at least, same excuses about injury, GWS training letting him down, GWS medical staff letting him down ect

so when he came over and had his first game i watched the game and realised he had very little to offer, i have been a talent spotter for years, so i can spot talent quickly(check out my draft preview page https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/davo-27s-2018-afl-draft-watch.1198126/ ) and he looked really bad, he got better after a few months of being trained into playing our way, but he was still very poor, his disposal isnt good, his handball is better than his kick, he isnt a great mark and doesnt have clean hands, he isnt fast at all, he has no x-factor, if he gets surrounded he cant find a way out, he turns the ball over too often, he has nothing to make him a pick 2 which leads me to believe that the draft he was taken in was a poor draft pool year and we made a mistake, i made a mistake listening to some here that were obsessed with getting him over.

i have heard a few diehards say, we can use him for depth, we can continue to develop him, we can give him a run of games until he finally comes right, we can keep him on in case he matures later ect ect ect, but he has no talent, thats what they dont understand, he has no fitness, no speed, no strength, no elite disposal, he isnt clean with disposal, he has no x-factor, he has no evasive skills....HE HAS NOTHING, i dont mean to be harsh, but its just true, he's a generic second tier league midfielder, with no elite talents
Click to expand...

I'd hate to hear what you have to say about him if you meant to be harsh...
 
he had a bit of speed as a junior, but he was 10 kgs lighter, he seemed to have questionable endurance as a junior and i hear him in interviews talking about injuries, so he's always been struggling with injuries it seems,

- always had average fitness/endurance even as a junior
- injury and weight gain has affected his speed
- never had elite disposal, but has a good kick in space
- always had poor defensive abilities, he even admitted this in a pre-draft interview
- very awkward mover on the field, probably why he has such poor evasive skills
- no x-factor

this guy is a bust as far as i can see...
 
H2F said:
Anyway this is sounding far more negative than intended. I just hope the best for him but don't see the fascination. If he makes it, I'll be stunned. But happy for him of course.
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To be honest, I think some of the fascination IS the fact that he went #2. The idea that we can get a bargain by getting him right when GWS couldn't is probably why a lot of people are holding out hope for him. Personally I'm excited about what could happen if the attributes everyone saw in his draft year that led to the #2 selection could still be exhibited at AFL level. A guy with good foot skills, good decision making who can play inside/outside, who wouldn't want someone with that skill set on their list?

I completely accept that is not what you are seeing when he plays right now, but I think you are being unfair by comparing him to the #1 pick in probably the best draft ever, a player that went on to win 4 flags, captaining his side in 3 of them, winning 2 norm smiths along the way. I don't disagree that Hodge showed a certain something early on, but the reality was he didn't perform at the level of an elite mid until his fourth year in the system, playing 15+ games in each of those 4 years. Yeah , Hodge had some issues with his body too, but nothing like O'Rourke. However to compare him to one of the best players to pull on a Hawthorn jumper ever and say O'Rourke - who has been riddled with injury for 6 years - doesn't impress you just seems a little harsh to me.
 
Davo-27 said:
he had a bit of speed as a junior, but he was 10 kgs lighter, he seemed to have questionable endurance as a junior and i hear him in interviews talking about injuries, so he's always been struggling with injuries it seems,
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Yes, he missed most of 2011 before being able to stay on the park in 2012. Hamstrings issues had already started in 2011.

- always had average fitness/endurance even as a junior
- injury and weight gain has affected his speed
- never had elite disposal, but has a good kick in space
- always had poor defensive abilities, he even admitted this in a pre-draft interview
- very awkward mover on the field, probably why he has such poor evasive skills
- no x-factor
Click to expand...

Not having a go, but have you seen him live as a junior? I haven't, but that assessment doesn't match the reports I've read from those who did. Went at 76% during the championship, which isn't bad disposal efficiency for a guy who is at least partly inside, in fact I'd say it was very good, comparable to someone like Isaac Smith who is likely more outside than JOR was during the championship. I'd give him a pass on his endurance due to the leg injuries. Look at JOM who is only now starting to run out games well after nearly a full year without a leg injury.

I think your assessment is fair on what we've seen of him at Hawthorn. My biggest concern is whether they think his body can be kept right, if the fitness staff believe it can be, then I think he's worth the risk of keeping on, as I think it is nearly impossible to separate the impact of injury on his confidence from a genuine lack of ability until he's been able to have some continuity.
 
Manila_Hawk said:
He only needs to copy JOM.
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I assume you mean JOM now, not JOM in his early Hawthorn games after coming back from his long term injury? The ones where he was handballing constantly, and often to a flat footed guy next to him? I agree JOM's handball is a weapon now. Some really nice ones last weekend too.
 
Jono O’Rourke
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14 disposals, 1 mark, 6 tackles

“It wasn’t his greatest game. He started on the wing and then he threw him on-ball. I think he was hampered by a bit of niggle which might have restricted him somewhat but he knows his output can be a lot better than that.” CN
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This quote from Chris Newman about this weekend's game seemed to sum it all up a bit for JOR. I thought the piece where he chatted with AFL.com.au before his first game this year was also a bit of a sob story, really sounded like he felt flat and hard done by with his injuries... didn't say anything about being excited to play.

Found this article as well, which is an interesting read that I missed.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/04/05/wallace-says-former-number-two-draft-pick-is-cutting-corners/
 
Fluro Boots said:
Sorry that it hasn't worked out for him but in reality, its time for the next guy.
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Agreed. I really wanted him to get more exposure in the seniors, but after going back to box hill he's had two good games, two moderate games and no really good games.
 

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