Expansion Joondalup Falcons in the AFL?

[RedV3x]

Waiting list is an issue

To whom ?

To give more representation to Western and South Australia,

I'd prefer Eagles and Dockers winning rather than WA3.

strengthening established than building new markets.

The AFL is not interested in strengthening state leagues where the "talent" actually comes from.

Perth has the north, Adelaide has the south left for a third team to fully fill the gap.

No it hasn't.

Fans say lot of teams are in East Coast, things ain't gonna be different adding a new team on the east is it?

Are you serious ?

It's just Canberra doesn't seem possible when GWS branded them as 'Greater' Western Sydney that compromises that broad area.

You think drawing a line on a map guarentees loyalty ?

 

[Canberra Pear]

0) Of course they'll want an Eagles membership when there is literally only 2 teams now in a city of 2 point something million, and if the issue has become has bad or even worse than it was then what are we going to do about it?

Personally, I'd probably just expand Optus Stadium first. It was made to be able to fit 70k seats. That's 20k extra seats a fortnight.

I'd rather two really strong clubs than adding a third club to live in West Coast and Freo's shadows and struggle to fill half a stadium.

1) Never said Canberra wasn't an Australian rules state - but reinforcing the existing market in WA and SA which 2 teams that live for football is 1 short for demand.

I really don't know why SA in the the discussion. They're so off the radar for another team at the moment. Another potential team would be decades away.

In WA, Freo have 20k free seats every fortnight, the demand clearly hasn't been exhausted yet. Add the extra 10k to Optus and the supply is set for decades to come.

Canberra, on the other hand, is only getting three games a year. We have a shortage of supply.

And lastly just in regards to Joondalup itself, if there are predominately British and South Africans living there, wouldn't that be an opportunity too?

This is a weird argument. You've pretty much said that demand is so high in WA because they're so footy crazy, but the area prime for expansion is a market new to footy.

If you want an opportunity to grow the game with new fans, there's one staring you in the face in Canberra.

 

[neogh]

Personally, I'd probably just expand Optus Stadium first. It was made to be able to fit 70k seats. That's 20k extra seats a fortnight.

I'd rather two really strong clubs than adding a third club to live in West Coast and Freo's shadows and struggle to fill half a stadium.



I really don't know why SA in the the discussion. They're so off the radar for another team at the moment. Another potential team would be decades away.

In WA, Freo have 20k free seats every fortnight, the demand clearly hasn't been exhausted yet. Add the extra 10k to Optus and the supply is set for decades to come.

Canberra, on the other hand, is only getting three games a year. We have a shortage of supply.



This is a weird argument. You've pretty much said that demand is so high in WA because they're so footy crazy, but the area prime for expansion is a market new to footy.

If you want an opportunity to grow the game with new fans, there's one staring you in the face in Canberra.

Both those missing out on attending games and those from overseas are market targets, if an AFL team was to be based per the forum - in Joondalup. If some other part of WA, its just those missing out.

A 20th team in the east cost and NZ (why do they keep getting brought along) I firmly reject unless I find extremely compelling arguments for.

 

[Coolangatta]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I wish the national expansion had started off with something like:

87 (7 VIC, 2 WA, 2 SA, 1 TAS, 1 NSW, 1 QLD)
90s (3 WA, 1 ACT)
2010s (2 NSW, 2 QLD)

18 teams, including TAS and ACT, wouldn't even be talking about expansion to 19 and 20 until the 2040s or 2050s, when you could start having a serious conversation about a 3rd SA side as one of those expansion teams.

But again, that's not the reality. If we're gonna have a 3rd WA side, I'd rather it not be until the 2050s, as a 22nd side. Maybe SA3 as a 24th side in the 2070s, but my thinking is that in 30+ years time, there's gonna be a good case for a 3rd QLD side and maybe a 3rd NSW side, so why would you bother with WA3 or SA3 by that stage. I think the AFL will want to ration their expansion spots, saving them for the east coast.

 

[Canberra Pear]

A 20th team in the east cost and NZ (why do they keep getting brought along).

I don't think anybody's talking about NZ realistically for a 20th team. They're in the discussions well down the track.

I firmly reject unless I find extremely compelling arguments for.

Likewise, I firmly reject the case of WA3 over Canberra, as I'm yet to hear any compelling arguments for.

 

[neogh]

Should've followed John Elliots Super League in the 80s with 3 from each WA and SA and 6 from Vic.

One of the unmentioned reasons I propose a WAFL team as the 20th is - in before WAFL never having a powerhouse is - is that there are great clubs now forgotten because of the AFL and want teams other than Port represented in the next expansion. Same goes if Canberra got a team instead, and promote Ainsile or something.

You're saying a 3rd Queensland side has more chance than 3rd WA? No chance Queensland gets a third when the League is trying to add a 5th team in the state.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You're saying a 3rd Queensland side has more chance than 3rd WA? No chance Queensland gets a third when the League is trying to add a 5th team in the state.

Nowhere have I ever said that.

I've always maintained Canberra and WA3 and the only places capable of hosting Team 20.

But I still maintain Canberra is the better option.

 

[Rich01]

Swear people think talent pool is this because they just miss old football.


0) Waiting list is an issue, but not my main point.

1) To give more representation to Western and South Australia, strengthening established than building new markets.

2) Perth has the north, Adelaide has the south left for a third team to fully fill the gap.

3) Fans say lot of teams are in East Coast, things ain't gonna be different adding a new team on the east is it?

4) It's just Canberra doesn't seem possible when GWS branded them as 'Greater' Western Sydney that compromises that broad area.

Heh.
Those that think otherwise believe that the quality of football is up to scratch.

 

[RedV3x]

Both those missing out on attending games

Are you talking about the British and South Africans, because i can assure you that they're not missing out.

and those from overseas are market targets,

Are you talking immigrants, if so the whole population increase is due to immigration but the indigenous game
seems to appeal to most of them.

if an AFL team was to be based per the forum - in Joondalup.

IMO there is no logic behind this suggestion. If some other part of WA, its just those missing out.

If some other part of WA, its just those missing out.

The other parts or Joondalup, because Joondalup has an a WAFL team to support.

A 20th team in the east cost and NZ

New Zealand was well in the mix for an AFL team well before Covid culled momentum including the push for a viable stadium.

 

[RedV3x]

Heh.
Those that think otherwise believe that the quality of football is up to scratch.

Whatever you think, the quality of AFL is NOT dependent on talent.
Before the AFL we had state leagues and the spectators were happy.
This is because the natural champions stood out over the rest.
Now the natural champions compete with learned champions and the trained champions.
Teams are intensively coached on defensive tactics. This is what causes congestion - not this talent myth.
When you do have a standout champion they are double or treble monitored.
When people look back on the "good old days" it was mainly one on one.

 

[neogh]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I wish the national expansion had started off with something like:

87 (7 VIC, 2 WA, 2 SA, 1 TAS, 1 NSW, 1 QLD)
90s (3 WA, 1 ACT)
2010s (2 NSW, 2 QLD)

18 teams, including TAS and ACT, wouldn't even be talking about expansion to 19 and 20 until the 2040s or 2050s, when you could start having a serious conversation about a 3rd SA side as one of those expansion teams.

But again, that's not the reality. If we're gonna have a 3rd WA side, I'd rather it not be until the 2050s, as a 22nd side. Maybe SA3 as a 24th side in the 2070s, but my thinking is that in 30+ years time, there's gonna be a good case for a 3rd QLD side and maybe a 3rd NSW side, so why would you bother with WA3 or SA3 by that stage. I think the AFL will want to ration their expansion spots, saving them for the east coast.

This was what I was referring to about a 3rd Qld team. Mobile is stiff.

Are you talking about the British and South Africans, because i can assure you that they're not missing out.


Are you talking immigrants, if so the whole population increase is due to immigration but the indigenous game
seems to appeal to most of them.



IMO there is no logic behind this suggestion. If some other part of WA, its just those missing out.




The other parts or Joondalup, because Joondalup has an a WAFL team to support.



New Zealand was well in the mix for an AFL team well before Covid culled momentum including the push for a viable stadium.

Eagles fans on waitlists =/= British/SA migrants.

But both are separate demographic groups that a team in Joondalup can target. Fans who are missing out from the game (because of waitlists etc), and those who are missing the action (because they don't know or cannot relate to AFL), people like myself who was born and migrated from outside Australia.

Don't see any room for New Zealand nor they are highly demanding a team.



And why do I keep mentioning SA? Because they may be small but their passion for football is no different to Victoria. Just because their living standards are lower to Victoria doesn't mean they don't love the game as we do.

 

[Rich01]

Swear people think talent pool is this because they just miss old football.

No you made an assumption on my post that is just incorrect.

Look at most team lists.
The talent drops away significantly.
There’s just not enough quality to spread around.

It ain’t about the ‘good old days’ at all.
It’s about quality of football and having enough junior talent to spread to 20 clubs.

The National draft barely recruits 60 players each year and it’s well known the hit rate of anything more than the top 40 is low. Sure there are outliers but the odds of getting a decent player here that will play 50 games isn’t high.

More focus needs to be put into development and pathways before adding more clubs and diluting the talent further.

 

[glengowan]

I really don't know why SA in the the discussion. They're so off the radar for another team at the moment. Another potential team would be decades away.

The only reasons why SA would be in the discussion for a 3rd team is Norwood. They are the biggest club outside of the AFL. Established. Historic. The rivalry with Port Adelaide is the original rivalry. They have a boutique stadium in the inner east, the opposite side of the city to the Crows, who will set up at Thebarton, in the inner west on South Road, which connects the southern and northern parts of the city.

They'd need to draw on their history, like Port Adelaide have, to draw in members. There is no way any other club or part of South Australia would work for a 3rd team.

Canberra seems the most logical choice for team 20. WA3, Norwood, NT, North QLD, Sunshine Coast, Newcastle/Hunter Region all possibilities in the future.

If I was the AFL, I would be concentrating on strengthening State Leagues as a priority for three reasons:

1) As a pathway or soft landing for mature aged players to enter/re-enter the AFL or continue a career in football
2) As an accessible and affordable pathway for young children and families to gain interest in attending the game, leading to future AFL membership/attendance
3) As a pathway for cities/large regional centres to form clubs and establish themselves prior to potentially entering the AFL

 

[RedV3x]

Eagles fans on waitlists =/= British/SA migrants.

Where do you get that information from ?

 

[neogh]

The only reasons why SA would be in the discussion for a 3rd team is Norwood. They are the biggest club outside of the AFL. Established. Historic. The rivalry with Port Adelaide is the original rivalry. They have a boutique stadium in the inner east, the opposite side of the city to the Crows, who will set up at Thebarton, in the inner west on South Road, which connects the southern and northern parts of the city.

They'd need to draw on their history, like Port Adelaide have, to draw in members. There is no way any other club or part of South Australia would work for a 3rd team.

Canberra seems the most logical choice for team 20. WA3, Norwood, NT, North QLD, Sunshine Coast, Newcastle/Hunter Region all possibilities in the future.

If I was the AFL, I would be concentrating on strengthening State Leagues as a priority for three reasons:

1) As a pathway or soft landing for mature aged players to enter/re-enter the AFL or continue a career in football
2) As an accessible and affordable pathway for young children and families to gain interest in attending the game, leading to future AFL membership/attendance
3) As a pathway for cities/large regional centres to form clubs and establish themselves prior to potentially entering the AFL

Well the state league ain't gonna be stronger with Port trying to leave their comp now.

What is WA's stance on it? Peel wouldn't be the biggest loss for WAFL, but if WA3 is a reality and if based off a WAFL side then that's a new topic.

 

[RedV3x]

if WA3 is a reality and if based off a WAFL side then that's a new topic.

No, it's an old topic that concluded that if there was to be such a thing as WA3
then it would have to be a three team consortium giving the AFL three teams a three way split.
No way is any WAFL side in any position by any k.p.i. to attempt to fild an AFL side.

 

[random260]

It has to happen a Perth team. Fremantle are in dire straits.

No history
No flags
Doofus surfer mascot
Purple colour which puts off men
Fremantle a green hippie town
Players leaving left right

If all goes to plan we could just fold Fremantle.

Perth team will be for modern Perth supporters inner citym

Wce will be for rusted on historical Perth fans.

Modern team vs ancient rich history team.

Almost like man united (wce) vs man city (Perth)

*Know nothing about soccer

 

[neogh]

It has to happen a Perth team. Fremantle are in dire straits.

No history
No flags
Doofus surfer mascot
Purple colour which puts off men
Fremantle a green hippie town
Players leaving left right

If all goes to plan we could just fold Fremantle.

Perth team will be for modern Perth supporters inner citym

Wce will be for rusted on historical Perth fans.

Modern team vs ancient rich history team

Didn't the Eagles move to Lathlain? If that's the case then not sure how that can work.

Had the Eagles moved somewhere little further then probably, but don't see Perth, especially Lathlain are Perth Demon's traditional home ground.

And may as well call Freo Cockburn Dockers, with them shifting to Cockburn.

 

[RedV3x]

Wce will be for rusted on historical Perth fans.

Yes, they could build a retirement village for them at Burswood so they can walk to Perth Stadium when their driver licenses are revoked.

 

[RedV3x]

Had the Eagles moved somewhere little further then probably,

They should have moved to Stirling in the heart of their territory.
Lathlain would have been a good home for a Perth AFL side.

 

[eastfreo75]

Perth 2.2m - 2 teams
Melbourne 5.0 m 9 teams

By the math, you could have 4 teams in Perth.

The issue is most people won't switch teams and most people in Perth already have a team.

 

[neogh]

Perth 2.2m - 2 teams
Melbourne 5.0 m 9 teams

By the math, you could have 4 teams in Perth.

The issue is most people won't switch teams and most people in Perth already have a team.

If relocating Melbourne sides to country Vic city or a different state was easier than thought then I wouldn't be backing a 3rd Perth/WA idea.

But Perth is capable for additional teams and if there's a good strategy then people would feel attracted to it. Only problem is how Eagles were historically successful from the start, and nearly 3 decades of binary options.

 

[eastfreo75]

If relocating Melbourne sides to country Vic city or a different state was easier than thought then I wouldn't be backing a 3rd Perth/WA idea.

But Perth is capable for additional teams and if there's a good strategy then people would feel attracted to it. Only problem is how Eagles were historically successful from the start.

The second team always has less supporters than the established club in a market. A third would be even less.

Swans have 1.3m fans and 65k membership vs GWS 202k and 33k membership. So its about 2:1 ratio for memberships
Lions have 826k fans and 54.6k membership vs Suns 118k and 23.3 memberships,, 5:2 ratio.
Crows 651k fans and 68.5k memberships vs Port 310k and 64k. Memberships is about 1:1 but 2:1 fans
Eagles 697k and 103.2 memberships vs Fremantle 425k and 62k. Membership is about 5:3 ratio

GWS, Freo and Gold Coast has been unsuccessful, and Swans, Lions and Eagles all won premierships.

Port was an established club before entering into the AFL and having success has helped with memberships.

Their is no established team in WA team could enter into the AFL.

A third WA team would have about 25-30k membership and 200k fans. Thats at GWS levels and another team the AFL needs to support.

While a Canberra would be slightly less but it's a developing market. Another team in Perth is stealing from Peter and Paul and paying Phil.

Sydney Swans are the most widely supported AFL club ahead of Collingwood, Brisbane and West Coast - Roy Morgan Research

www.roymorgan.com

 

[Coolangatta]

The second team always has less supporters than the established club in a market. A third would be even less.

Swans have 1.3m fans and 65k membership vs GWS 202k and 33k membership. So its about 2:1 ratio for memberships
Lions have 826k fans and 54.6k membership vs Suns 118k and 23.3 memberships,, 5:2 ratio.
Crows 651k fans and 68.5k memberships vs Port 310k and 64k. Memberships is about 1:1 but 2:1 fans
Eagles 697k and 103.2 memberships vs Fremantle 425k and 62k. Membership is about 5:3 ratio

GWS, Freo and Gold Coast has been unsuccessful, and Swans, Lions and Eagles all won premierships.

Port was an established club before entering into the AFL and having success has helped with memberships.

Their is no established team in WA team could enter into the AFL.

A third WA team would have about 25-30k membership and 200k fans. Thats at GWS levels and another team the AFL needs to support.

While a Canberra would be slightly less but it's a developing market. Another team in Perth is stealing from Peter and Paul and paying Phil.

Sydney Swans are the most widely supported AFL club ahead of Collingwood, Brisbane and West Coast - Roy Morgan Research

www.roymorgan.com

Canberra would have the market all to itself, though. With their population growth and finances, they'd certainly get good crowds and enough members to sustain a club. WA3 has potential but that's all it is, I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[basashi]

WA3 is a more solid medium and long term proposition than Tasmania, Canberra, NT, GWS, GC and at least three current vic sides.