Player Watch Jordan De Goey

[Apex36]

Meh, if he goes or if he stays, it’ll be because we are serious about winning flags.

Buckley left Brisbane, Franklin left Hawthorn, Ryan Griffen left Bulldogs. None of those seem to hurt their clubs chances of winning Premierships.

No one player is bigger than the collective.

Really using Buckley as an example? Brisbane were a basket case for nearly a decade after he left (they were while he was there too). The only reason they got their shit together is because the AFL intervened and they merged with Fitzroy. It’s hard to gauge how much losing Buckley hurt them because they were already garbage anyway, but it certainly didn’t help them at all.

 

[MyManLynch]

Really using Buckley as an example? Brisbane were a basket case for nearly a decade after he left (they were while he was there too). The only reason they got their s**t together is because the AFL intervened and they merged with Fitzroy. It’s hard to gauge how much losing Buckley hurt them because they were already garbage anyway, but it certainly didn’t help them at all.

Good point. Plus assisted with AFL salary cap relief to keep the dream team together (during their successful period).
Once concessions expired…they dropped off big time.

 

[sideswipe]

I want him to stay and think it's very important that this happens for a number of reasons.

I get what people say about JDG not really hitting his ceiling but he is unique to us.

The closest we have is Elliot but only in the forward line. He would leave a hole that isn't easy to replace with kind.

The other angle is that I like stories with happy endings. I want to believe that the club was able to keep Jordy and help him because it's a good place to belong to.

I like happy endings at Collingwood. At other clubs, bring on disaster, mayhem and stories of human tragedy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JB1975]

You are probably correct and I am most likely beginning to resemble the flake of dead skin to be brushed off the body. I accept that some change in attitude had to occur, some of which I had already absorbed as part and parcel of living a life, such as a natural acceptance of the LGBTIQ+ (minus perhaps the non-binary and I bits). But some elements of this change leave me cold, particularly the censorship or banning of shows I loved, given that my own humour has been based around 'taking the piss out of others and myself. The British were famous for being able to laugh at themselves, but increasingly we are being denied the right to laugh at others. Perhaps the time will come when it's even frowned upon to laugh at ourselves.

The outcry on here regarding the reaction to De Goey's action and more particularly the Q and G video suggests to me that there is still a large percentage of the population who are out of step with changing attitudes. In fact, I would guess that only a small minority of posters supported the clubs actions against the players, particularly Q and G. There was even criticism that the AFLW team flew under the moral radar despite exhibiting behaviour similar to that of the three footballers. Lots of people have not been swept up and carried by the move to sanitise speech and behaviour. The media are certainly on board the change train, probably partly because they have to be in order to retain a job or appear relevant.

There are increasingly issues which seem to have been closed for public discussion because people from certain groups e.g. indigenous people and women own 'a truth' which precludes non members of those groups from commenting on their situations. Perhaps Lisa Wilkinson, when she gave the speech that caused the trial postponement, believed that society had already accepted the truth of Brittany Higgins' claim simply because she was a woman and the guilt of the accused rapists because he was male.

I find it's getting harder to stay relevant and do feel somewhat marginalised being forced to believe and support certain changes being bulldozed through society. We have complained for years that footballers have lost the right to be characters and are impressed when someone like Ginnivan breaks the mold and ignores current behavioural conventions, acting as an individual rather than adhering to the AFL's ideal of how every player should publicly speak and act. We find his behaviour refreshing which suggests we don't truly support the automated 'one week at a time' 'did it for the boys' responses, as though everyone is reading from the same cue cards.

But your reading of the waves of changes sweeping the western world, and in particular, good old PC Australia, are correct, and I accept that I am the one with the problem now, not society. I guess when you have a long experience with life, you tend to feel you have earned the right to an opinion and beliefs. Those soldiers who fought against the Japanese during the 2nd WW and witnessed first hand their cruelty formed an opinion of the Japanese as a race based on their experience, and who could truly blame them. Experience is probably the ultimate form of education and views formed in this way are not going to be altered by those who did not share time with you in a tropical POW camp watching your mates die from beatings, summary executions, overwork or exotic diseases. Some prejudices/beliefs are so ingrained that only death will bring an end to them.

The passage of society isn't linear. We're not on a straight path which leads to progress and betterment. The culture of this moment might clothe itself in righteousness, but in time its tendency to condemn might well be seen as abhorrent.

To put it another way, I doubt that you're as out of step with the hurly burly as you might sometimes feel, and you are far more than a flake of dead skin upon a vibrant body.

You'd remember the progressive movements of the 1960s and 1970s, which fought against the rigid standards of Australian censorship. They were progressive movements which privileged the crass and the saying of things to offend polite society. The fought for the production and distribution of nudie pics, the ones which found their way onto workshop walls, and this was a triumph of freedom.

A lot of what's happening today seems to resemble the culture of censorship and condemnation which that progressive movement threw off. It demands a conformity which we haven't seen for a long while, and I think that it threatens to detach us from some of the fundamental values which earlier progressive movements tapped into.

I'm a snowflake (hey!), but sometimes I think that this society gets it very, very wrong. It sometimes go against a sense of things which I've developed over decades, built upon experience and whatever I've learned about the world.

These sorts of perspectives are, I like to believe, still relevant, and useful in warding off the tide of kneejerk reaction.

No coffee went into the production of this post, which might explain the jumble of it.

 

[jmac70]

I like happy endings at Collingwood. At other clubs, bring on disaster, mayhem and stories of human tragedy.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I like happy endings too in any suburb.

 

[NMBB]

I like happy endings too in any suburb.

Is your bin nazi into happy endings?

 

[jmac70]

Is your bin nazi into happy endings?

You’ve no idea the image you just created in my mind.

 

[jmac70]

The passage of society isn't linear. We're not on a straight path which leads to progress and betterment. The culture of this moment might clothe itself in righteousness, but in time its tendency to condemn might well be seen as abhorrent.

To put it another way, I doubt that you're as out of step with the hurly burly as you might sometimes feel, and you are far more than a flake of dead skin upon a vibrant body.

You'd remember the progressive movements of the 1960s and 1970s, which fought against the rigid standards of Australian censorship. They were progressive movements which privileged the crass and the saying of things to offend polite society. The fought for the production and distribution of nudie pics, the ones which found their way onto workshop walls, and this was a triumph of freedom.

A lot of what's happening today seems to resemble the culture of censorship and condemnation which that progressive movement threw off. It demands a conformity which we haven't seen for a long while, and I think that it threatens to detach us from some of the fundamental values which earlier progressive movements tapped into.

I'm a snowflake (hey!), but sometimes I think that this society gets it very, very wrong. It sometimes go against a sense of things which I've developed over decades, built upon experience and whatever I've learned about the world.

These sorts of perspectives are, I like to believe, still relevant, and useful in warding off the tide of kneejerk reaction.

No coffee went into the production of this post, which might explain the jumble of it.

I still don’t know what a snowflake is.

 

[JB1975]

I still don’t know what a snowflake is.

Neither do I, but on Big Footy I seem to fit the description of what others call 'snowflake'.

If nothing else, it must mean that I'm beautiful and precious.

 

[sr36]

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis

(The times have changed, we have changed with them)

Think of the society you grew up in: Corporal punishment in the classroom, Workers smoked at their desks. Soft pr0n hung up in the office. Women had the career choice of being nurses, teachers, working in the typing pool, or wheeling the tea trolley around mid morning and mid afternoon. People drove home from the pub pissed. Shops closed in the middle of the day on a Saturday. Half the stuff they showed on the telly would not be allowed to be broadcast today.

Every one of those things (and many more) was argued bitterly over for and against.

Some things actually did become short lived fads. (Curious to see that the force of a significant pandemic wasn’t able to replace the custom of the handshake with the touching elbows thing). Other things do change society.

Yeah, we can argue that there were good reason for those things to change. But that’s with the benefit of hindsight and within the framework of today’s society.

Sometime in the future, maybe we will look back on today and appreciate that the things we fought against needed to change? Or maybe we will be old farts grumbling about how things were so much better in the good old days?

We can’t stop the passing of time. But we can choose to stay relevant. Fight the good fight when it is needed, but when we lose, accept it and even consider embracing it.

We are living organisms, but the greater society that we are a part of is also a living organism. That living organism of society is trying to survive and thrive, it is evolving and adapting. And anybody who is not contributing to that will be simply cast off like the flakes of dead skin cells that fall from our own bodies.

Don't disagree with embracing change, but it should never be just blindly accepted. Let's not forget that eugenics, fascism and the Khmer Rouge were progressive social movements.

 

[NMBB]

You’ve no idea the image you just created in my mind.

Are you experiencing neuro diversity?

 

[jmac70]

Are you experiencing neuro diversity?

I could be, although I don’t know what that means. Please remember I’m from the western suburbs.

 

[MyManLynch]

Neither do I, but on Big Footy I seem to fit the description of what others call 'snowflake'.

If nothing else, it must mean that I'm beautiful and precious.

It could mean that you are structured & cold.
Or you only turn up occasionally.
Or you are a lightweight.
Or you quickly melt when the heat is on.
Or always falling down.

 

[JB1975]

It could mean that you are structured & cold.
Or you only turn up occasionally.
Or you are a lightweight.
Or you quickly melt when the heat is on.
Or always falling down.

There are some negative meanings and connotations in there, which just isn't was BF is about at all...

 

[sideswipe]

It could mean that you are structured & cold.
Or you only turn up occasionally.
Or you are a lightweight.
Or you quickly melt when the heat is on.
Or always falling down.

What about “he doesn’t exist in nice sunny places”?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NMBB]

I could be, although I don’t know what that means. Please remember I’m from the western suburbs.

It's the head zone equivalent of nouveau cuisine

 

[neilk]

It could mean that you are structured & cold.
Or you only turn up occasionally.
Or you are a lightweight.
Or you quickly melt when the heat is on.
Or always falling down.

Maybe "snowdropper"?

 

[leon123]

Neither do I, but on Big Footy I seem to fit the description of what others call 'snowflake'.

If nothing else, it must mean that I'm beautiful and precious.

individually unique

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Neither do I, but on Big Footy I seem to fit the description of what others call 'snowflake'.

If nothing else, it must mean that I'm beautiful and precious.

Don’t be silly, it means that you’re fractal. The more we zoom in on you, the more little JB1975’s we see!

 

[jmac70]

It's the head zone equivalent of nouveau cuisine

Stop speaking in riddles!

 

[NMBB]

Stop speaking in riddles!

Now you're being a snowflake

 

[jmac70]

Now you're being a snowflake

I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

[domus]

You are probably correct and I am most likely beginning to resemble the flake of dead skin to be brushed off the body. I accept that some change in attitude had to occur, some of which I had already absorbed as part and parcel of living a life, such as a natural acceptance of the LGBTIQ+ (minus perhaps the non-binary and I bits). But some elements of this change leave me cold, particularly the censorship or banning of shows I loved, given that my own humour has been based around 'taking the piss out of others and myself. The British were famous for being able to laugh at themselves, but increasingly we are being denied the right to laugh at others. Perhaps the time will come when it's even frowned upon to laugh at ourselves.

The outcry on here regarding the reaction to De Goey's action and more particularly the Q and G video suggests to me that there is still a large percentage of the population who are out of step with changing attitudes. In fact, I would guess that only a small minority of posters supported the clubs actions against the players, particularly Q and G. There was even criticism that the AFLW team flew under the moral radar despite exhibiting behaviour similar to that of the three footballers. Lots of people have not been swept up and carried by the move to sanitise speech and behaviour. The media are certainly on board the change train, probably partly because they have to be in order to retain a job or appear relevant.

There are increasingly issues which seem to have been closed for public discussion because people from certain groups e.g. indigenous people and women own 'a truth' which precludes non members of those groups from commenting on their situations. Perhaps Lisa Wilkinson, when she gave the speech that caused the trial postponement, believed that society had already accepted the truth of Brittany Higgins' claim simply because she was a woman and the guilt of the accused rapists because he was male.

I find it's getting harder to stay relevant and do feel somewhat marginalised being forced to believe and support certain changes being bulldozed through society. We have complained for years that footballers have lost the right to be characters and are impressed when someone like Ginnivan breaks the mold and ignores current behavioural conventions, acting as an individual rather than adhering to the AFL's ideal of how every player should publicly speak and act. We find his behaviour refreshing which suggests we don't truly support the automated 'one week at a time' 'did it for the boys' responses, as though everyone is reading from the same cue cards.

But your reading of the waves of changes sweeping the western world, and in particular, good old PC Australia, are correct, and I accept that I am the one with the problem now, not society. I guess when you have a long experience with life, you tend to feel you have earned the right to an opinion and beliefs. Those soldiers who fought against the Japanese during the 2nd WW and witnessed first hand their cruelty formed an opinion of the Japanese as a race based on their experience, and who could truly blame them. Experience is probably the ultimate form of education and views formed in this way are not going to be altered by those who did not share time with you in a tropical POW camp watching your mates die from beatings, summary executions, overwork or exotic diseases. Some prejudices/beliefs are so ingrained that only death will bring an end to them.

Speaking the truth isn't a sign of prejudice. One of my dearest friends is a 97 year old holocaust survivor. He stood in front of Mengele on more than one occasion. He is a very kind, forgiving man but he also has certain opinions about the Germans of that era which may not tick the PC Boxes.

My mate had uncles who survived despite being Japanese prisoners of war. You can imagine how they felt about the Japanese. They would be regarded as bigots or racists by many uni educated people today if they heard them speak.

They would be wrong.

When cruelty, torture and mass murder are sanctioned and in fact ordered by the government and cheered on by the masses a person is entitled to feel animus toward a particular race.

Neither my Jewish friend or my mates uncles would blame the descendants of these perpetrators.

I don't have an issue with sensible, progressive change like the enforcement of seat belt wearing and banning of drink driving. The same can be said for embracing people of all backgrounds and sexual preferences.

But accepting another form of bigotry is not progress nor is giving status to the idea of victimhood a healthy or desirable outcome for our society.

Some things are worth conserving. I recently read a book about the Dambusters -operation Chastise. Most of the young men who gave their lives were aged between 19 and 24. There were quite a few Aussies involved.

It was deeply moving to see the sense of duty and sacrifice for a perceived higher cause which so many of these young men felt in their hearts.

I'm not suggesting blind devotion to country and flag is something to be applauded but there is something deeply moving and impressive about the self sacrificing nature of so many people of past generations

It contrasts so powerfully with the narcissism of our modern day culture. Lisa Wilkinson is a perfect example. She continues to present herself as a victim yet she is a wealthy, famous celebrity living in the most exclusive area in Australia..

Change is inevitable but it is not always good. The idea that every new idea or ideology is better than whatever it is replacing is patently untrue.

Many of our changes have been for the better but there are many that have created a more self absorbed, depressed, lonely generation because people are not connected in the way we once were.

I wonder if we rid ourselves of all social media whether the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages.

It would make for a good debate topic.

Winston Smith refused to accept that 2 plus 2=5 even though those who held the power demanded he believe it. Of course, we know how it ended

I'm sure Stalin seemed very appealing to the peasants of Russia who suffered for so long under the Tzars. In the end, many longed for a return to the old regime Communism replaced.

So we should never just roll over when a new wave of beliefs/attitudes arise. We can be discerning.

As for certain groups believing anyone who lacks the requisite immutable characteristics should be unable to have an opinion on certain issues. They never apply the same rule to themselves. They never stop telling a certain demographic how they should behave and what they should feel and think.

Change can be a good ior bad thing. It's up to us to decide what is healthy and makes us a better society and what is dangerous and destructive.

 

[jmac70]

Speaking the truth isn't a sign of prejudice. One of my dearest friends is a 97 year old holocaust survivor. He stood in front of Mengele on more than one occasion. He is a very kind, forgiving man but he also has certain opinions about the Germans of that era which may not tick the PC Boxes.

My mate had uncles who survived despite being Japanese prisoners of war. You can imagine how they felt about the Japanese. They would be regarded as bigots or racists by many uni educated people today if they heard them speak.

They would be wrong.

When cruelty, torture and mass murder are sanctioned and in fact ordered by the government and cheered on by the masses a person is entitled to feel animus toward a particular race.

Neither my Jewish friend or my mates uncles would blame the descendants of these perpetrators.

I don't have an issue with sensible, progressive change like the enforcement of seat belt wearing and banning of drink driving. The same can be said for embracing people of all backgrounds and sexual preferences.

But accepting another form of bigotry is not progress nor is giving status to the idea of victimhood a healthy or desirable outcome for our society.

Some things are worth conserving. I recently read a book about the Dambusters -operation Chastise. Most of the young men who gave their lives were aged between 19 and 24. There were quite a few Aussies involved.

It was deeply moving to see the sense of duty and sacrifice for a perceived higher cause which so many of these young men felt in their hearts.

I'm not suggesting blind devotion to country and flag is something to be applauded but there is something deeply moving and impressive about the self sacrificing nature of so many people of past generations

It contrasts so powerfully with the narcissism of our modern day culture. Lisa Wilkinson is a perfect example. She continues to present herself as a victim yet she is a wealthy, famous celebrity living in the most exclusive area in Australia..

Change is inevitable but it is not always good. The idea that every new idea or ideology is better than whatever it is replacing is patently untrue.

Many of our changes have been for the better but there are many that have created a more self absorbed, depressed, lonely generation because people are not connected in the way we once were.

I wonder if we rid ourselves of all social media whether the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages.

It would make for a good debate topic.

Winston Smith refused to accept that 2 plus 2=5 even though those who held the power demanded he believe it. Of course, we know how it ended

I'm sure Stalin seemed very appealing to the peasants of Russia who suffered for so long under the Tzars. In the end, many longed for a return to the old regime Communism replaced.

So we should never just roll over when a new wave of beliefs/attitudes arise. We can be discerning.

As for certain groups believing anyone who lacks the requisite immutable characteristics should be unable to have an opinion on certain issues. They never apply the same rule to themselves. They never stop telling a certain demographic how they should behave and what they should feel and think.

Change can be a good ior bad thing. It's up to us to decide what is healthy and makes us a better society and what is dangerous and destructive.

How many civilians did the dambusters kill?

 

[NMBB]

Speaking the truth isn't a sign of prejudice. One of my dearest friends is a 97 year old holocaust survivor. He stood in front of Mengele on more than one occasion. He is a very kind, forgiving man but he also has certain opinions about the Germans of that era which may not tick the PC Boxes.

My mate had uncles who survived despite being Japanese prisoners of war. You can imagine how they felt about the Japanese. They would be regarded as bigots or racists by many uni educated people today if they heard them speak.

They would be wrong.

When cruelty, torture and mass murder are sanctioned and in fact ordered by the government and cheered on by the masses a person is entitled to feel animus toward a particular race.

Neither my Jewish friend or my mates uncles would blame the descendants of these perpetrators.

I don't have an issue with sensible, progressive change like the enforcement of seat belt wearing and banning of drink driving. The same can be said for embracing people of all backgrounds and sexual preferences.

But accepting another form of bigotry is not progress nor is giving status to the idea of victimhood a healthy or desirable outcome for our society.

Some things are worth conserving. I recently read a book about the Dambusters -operation Chastise. Most of the young men who gave their lives were aged between 19 and 24. There were quite a few Aussies involved.

It was deeply moving to see the sense of duty and sacrifice for a perceived higher cause which so many of these young men felt in their hearts.

I'm not suggesting blind devotion to country and flag is something to be applauded but there is something deeply moving and impressive about the self sacrificing nature of so many people of past generations

It contrasts so powerfully with the narcissism of our modern day culture. Lisa Wilkinson is a perfect example. She continues to present herself as a victim yet she is a wealthy, famous celebrity living in the most exclusive area in Australia..

Change is inevitable but it is not always good. The idea that every new idea or ideology is better than whatever it is replacing is patently untrue.

Many of our changes have been for the better but there are many that have created a more self absorbed, depressed, lonely generation because people are not connected in the way we once were.

I wonder if we rid ourselves of all social media whether the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages.

It would make for a good debate topic.

Winston Smith refused to accept that 2 plus 2=5 even though those who held the power demanded he believe it. Of course, we know how it ended

I'm sure Stalin seemed very appealing to the peasants of Russia who suffered for so long under the Tzars. In the end, many longed for a return to the old regime Communism replaced.

So we should never just roll over when a new wave of beliefs/attitudes arise. We can be discerning.

As for certain groups believing anyone who lacks the requisite immutable characteristics should be unable to have an opinion on certain issues. They never apply the same rule to themselves. They never stop telling a certain demographic how they should behave and what they should feel and think.

Change can be a good ior bad thing. It's up to us to decide what is healthy and makes us a better society and what is dangerous and destructive.

The Dam Busters, Rats of Tobruk, Light Horsemen, those who fought on Kokoda Track were a special breed as were the nurses in those theatres. Reading a book on Lone Pine - tough gig there. The Turks were an honourable foe.
My father spent 4 and a half years in a POW camp in Germany - shrugged it off after the War and barely talked about it.