Moved Thread Josh Kelly vs Marcus Bontempelli - who would you take now

[Bulldog1954]

In 2017 Bont had:
1 game of 12d
2 games in the teens
2 games of 20d .

So just to clarify, 3 games of under 20 disposals in a season makes someone "inconsistent"?

 

[Juddernaut08]

So just to clarify, 3 games of under 20 disposals in a season makes someone "inconsistent"?

compared to the average player? no

more inconsistent than kelly? yes.

Just curious: who is more consistent to you based on 2017?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Y’all out here acting like anything except BFNAAK matters

 

[Bulldog1954]

compared to the average player? no

more inconsistent than kelly? yes.

Just curious: who is more consistent to you based on 2017?

You originally said he was inconsistent and his 2016 was a fluke, as well as the other astute judgement that Bontempelli was a taller, slower Rioli and that he hadn't proven he could play midfield. I think Kelly had a slightly better and more consistent 2017 after Bontempelli had significantly better years in 2015 and 2016.

 

[Juddernaut08]

You originally said he was inconsistent and his 2016 was a fluke, as well as the other astute judgement that Bontempelli was a taller, slower Rioli and that he hadn't proven he could play midfield. I think Kelly had a slightly better and more consistent 2017 after Bontempelli had significantly better years in 2015 and 2016.

So you admit Kelly is more consistent. Case closed.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Kelly is the new Swallow.

He's definitely coming! Soon

 

[kirbatron]

bont can do the more freakish stuff whereas kelly is a ridicously neat player who gets more of the footy.

ask me again end of the year.

 

[Bulldog1954]

So you admit Kelly is more consistent. Case closed.

I never argued Bontempelli's consistency against Kelly's until you asked me to. I just argued against your statement that Bontempelli is inconsistent, which is simply wrong as is your statement that Bontempelli hasn't proven he can play midfield.

 

[Giant Pete]

Doggies supporters pretty sensitive in here.

 

[ManOfClay]

Doggies supporters pretty sensitive in here.

Or we are just making an actual argument against a fairly dumb opinion. What is it to you though?

Note none of us are playing down Kelly or anything like that. We are just responding to some glaring inaccuracies about one of our players

 

[Juddernaut08]

I never argued Bontempelli's consistency against Kelly's until you asked me to. I just argued against your statement that Bontempelli is inconsistent, which is simply wrong as is your statement that Bontempelli hasn't proven he can play midfield.

The poll in this thread is Kelly vs Bontempelli, and the question was regarding consistency. Comparing their consistency relative against each other is directly relevant.

What I said regarding midfield is that Bont needs to prove he can play full time midfield, but won't be given a chance til the dogs get him support in the forwardline. (i.e. not his fault). This is the truth and not an insult, it's only been taken to be that by some sensitive doggies fans who appear salty about the poll result.

Both players are great - Kelly being preferred doesn't change that. <-- NOTE: For the avoidance of doubt, this is not meant to be an insult

 

[ManOfClay]

What I said regarding midfield is that Bont needs to prove he can play full time midfield,

Except he has, you just can’t remember past the last season where he was played forward out of neccesity.

 

[tazaa]

And what if he doesn't win a flag in that 2 years but doesn't think North are close to contending? Will he re-sign again for another 2 years? Will he go to another club that he feels can contend? No one knows.

Its moreso he wants to show more loyalty to GWS before leaving. Also considering the offer on the table and money being thrown he would have signed on at GWS for longer if he wasnt going to leave in 2.

Mate, all of last year it was Carlton and StKilda who were gonna win his services. Now we know both werent even an option.
I agree though, 2 years is a long time in football and who knows what the landscape will be come 2019.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Its moreso he wants to show more loyalty to GWS before leaving. Also considering the offer on the table and money being thrown he would have signed on at GWS for longer if he wasnt going to leave in 2.

Mate, all of last year it was Carlton and StKilda who were gonna win his services. Now we know both werent even an option.
I agree though, 2 years is a long time in football and who knows what the landscape will be come 2019.

Not guaranteed. He's also smart to keep his options open and sign a mega deal when he's in his absolute prime. I hope he leaves too, but sometimes we're reading way too much into it.

 

[ManOfClay]

He can prove it's not a fluke, but like I said dogs need help in the forwardline first so he can be moved.

Let’s play your game then. Using numbers.


Bontempelli averages more disposals than Kelly in 2015 and 2016 playing as a midfielder. But plays more as a forward and averages less disposals than Kelly in 2017

Yet Bontempelli needs to prove his 2016 was not a fluke and Kelly is better after one season statistically out of the past three.

Keep in mind these are 23 year olds who haven’t peaked.

Leave out the condescending grasshopper and goldfish shit.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Let’s play your game then. Using numbers.


Bontempelli averages more disposals than Kelly in 2015 and 2016 playing as a midfielder. But plays more as a forward and averages less disposals than Kelly in 2017

Yet Bontempelli needs to prove his 2016 was not a fluke and Kelly is better after one season statistically out of the past three.

Keep in mind these are 23 year olds who haven’t peaked.

Leave out the condescending grasshopper and goldfish shit.

Comparing their 2nd and 3rd seasons when they're still undergoing rapid development is foolish. To say that their 2nd season is as good as an indicator as their 4th is blind head-in-the-sand sort of stuff. Players develop at different rates, and Bont was definitely ahead at the end of 2016. Look at GAblett Jr his first 4 years were average at best.

I think it's unlikely that your view is going to change without seeing this season play out. My position is pretty mainstream: Kelly better now, Bont higher ceiling but may not reach it. Would love either at Carlton and might even choose Bont due to how he'd fit (Imagine Cripps/Bont/Curnow rotating as mismatches in the one team). The fact that I prefer Kelly at the moment shouldn't be offensive.

 

[ManOfClay]

I thin). The fact that I prefer Kelly at the moment shouldn't be offensive.

Correct.


It’s the rest of your argument that is offensive to anyone with a brain. The whole 2016 was a fluke, Bont needs to prove he can be a full time mid etc etc.

No issue with anyone preferring Kelly. Leave out the factually incorrect stuff though

 

[Juddernaut08]

Correct.


It’s the rest of your argument that is offensive to anyone with a brain. The whole 2016 was a fluke, Bont needs to prove he can be a full time mid etc etc.

No issue with anyone preferring Kelly. Leave out the factually incorrect stuff though

Those things are opinion, not fact. Projecting off one season is not fact, we don't know if it was a fluke because he didn't back it up last year and his other seasons haven't been at that level. We don't know if it's a fluke until we see him demonstrate it again - and like I said he won't have that chance unless the dogs sort out their forward dearth.

Another thing we don't know is if the dogs are legitimately good. Normally a Premiership comes from several years of contention - these are weird times and the dogs (and tiges) haven't been given the same level of reverence of other recent Premiership squads. Bont has similar questions.

 

[Cadillac]

Those things are opinion, not fact. Projecting off one season is not fact.

Another thing we don't know is if the dogs are legitimately good. Normally a Premiership comes from several years of contention - these are weird times and the dogs (and tiges) haven't been given the same level of reverence of other recent Premiership squads. Bont has similar questions.

Bonts last 3 years of AFL footy

Age 19 - 2015 runners up B&F in a team that made finals

Age 20 - 2016 Best and fairest winner in a premiership side.

Age 21 - 2017 hampered by injuries all year and didn’t start running until mid January and zero JLT games he wins another beat and fairest in a disappointing year for the club.

Your agenda against Bont and claiming people are going off one season is absolutely laughable considering that last year was Kelly’s first season being better than Bont.

Obviously they play different roles so it’s hard to compare stats wise. But now Bont has had his first ever pre season without any setbacks, I’m very confident he will narrow the gap between the two and have a huge year.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Bonts last 3 years of AFL footy

Age 19 - 2015 runners up B&F in a team that made finals

Age 20 - 2016 Best and fairest winner in a premiership side.

Age 21 - 2017 hampered by injuries all year and didn’t start running until mid January and zero JLT games he wins another beat and fairest in a disappointing year for the club.

Your agenda against Bont and claiming people are going off one season is absolutely laughable considering that last year was Kelly’s first season being better than Bont.

Obviously they play different roles so it’s hard to compare stats wise. But now Bont has had his first ever pre season without any setbacks, I’m very confident he will narrow the gap between the two and have a huge year.

You actually have a different view to your mates. I agree with your view, not theirs. They don't even think that Kelly is ahead.

 

[Cadillac]

You actually have a different view to your mates. I agree with your view, not theirs. They don't even think that Kelly is ahead.

If we are going off of last season I’d have Kelly ahead. That doesn’t make him a better player though. I’m still certain there are a lot of people who think Dangerfield is a better player than Dusty, even though Dusty had the better year.

But at the end of the day, that’s just my opinion. Yours is obviously different. Regardless of how much we try and justify it. We aren’t going to convince each other are we? This will continue to go around in circles.

But one thing I will say. I look forward to seeing how Kelly handles the pressure of carrying a target on his back and being front and centre of the AFL hype train. And with that comes huge expectations from outside of the footy club in the media and from opposition teams game planning against him. The sort of stuff Bont has had to deal with for the last two years.

 

[Chism]

Both absolute guns that are very hard to split.

 

[Juddernaut08]

If we are going off of last season I’d have Kelly ahead. That doesn’t make him a better player though. I’m still certain there are a lot of people who think Dangerfield is a better player than Dusty, even though Dusty had the better year.

But at the end of the day, that’s just my opinion. Yours is obviously different. Regardless of how much we try and justify it. We aren’t going to convince each other are we? This will continue to go around in circles.

But one thing I will say. I look forward to seeing how Kelly handles the pressure of carrying a target on his back and being front and centre of the AFL hype train. And with that comes huge expectations from outside of the footy club in the media and from opposition teams game planning against him. The sort of stuff Bont has had to deal with for the last two years.

Fair enough.

 

[nickcat0]

Kelly was the better player in 2017. Over the course of their whole careers, Bont has been the better player.

At the moment I 'd take Bont, based on the last 4 years, but if in 2018 they both reproduce last year's from, then I'll change my mind.

 

[MaddAdam]

Kelly is the new Swallow.

He's definitely coming! Soon

No, I never ever believed Swallow would play for North.

Kelly I'm very confident on though.