Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

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Hey Team!
I can’t sleep 😞
I’ve been thinking about characteristics/profile of the person who committed this crime. My list follows… please give feedback, comment and add your own points.

1. The person knew about the boat ramp at Cottesloe and how to get to it by car.
2. They were aware the tide would be in at the time they took the car there and the water would be up to the retaining wall.
3. They took the bag from the car (that was dumped in the sand dunes) for a reason and chose not to leave it behind in the car.
4. They walked away from the dumped car on foot in the direction of Fremantle.
5. They arrived home after the event without raising suspicion. (Were they single and living alone? Living with parents?)
6. Possibly lived between Fremantle and Cottesloe and could walk home on foot.
7. They did not have work on Monday due to public holiday or they could work in hospitality.
8. They were not drunk.
9. They were a similar age to Julie.
10. There was only one of them.

Also, I’ve been thinking about why Julie wasn’t in the car. Did this person not want to risk being caught with a body when they were driving the car to Cottesloe?
Or did they dump the body somewhere else remotely because they didn’t want it to be found?
Why not just torch the car? Would that have attracted more attention than dumping it at Cott?
 
mrskafoops said:
Hey Team!
I can’t sleep 😞
I’ve been thinking about characteristics/profile of the person who committed this crime. My list follows… please give feedback, comment and add your own points.

1. The person knew about the boat ramp at Cottesloe and how to get to it by car.
2. They were aware the tide would be in at the time they took the car there and the water would be up to the retaining wall.
3. They took the bag from the car (that was dumped in the sand dunes) for a reason and chose not to leave it behind in the car.
4. They walked away from the dumped car on foot in the direction of Fremantle.
5. They arrived home after the event without raising suspicion. (Were they single and living alone? Living with parents?)
6. Possibly lived between Fremantle and Cottesloe and could walk home on foot.
7. They did not have work on Monday due to public holiday or they could work in hospitality.
8. They were not drunk.
9. They were a similar age to Julie.
10. There was only one of them.

Also, I’ve been thinking about why Julie wasn’t in the car. Did this person not want to risk being caught with a body when they were driving the car to Cottesloe?
Or did they dump the body somewhere else remotely because they didn’t want it to be found?
Why not just torch the car? Would that have attracted more attention than dumping it at Cott?
Click to expand...

my thoughts on your list: (i could be wrong, my thinking seems to be different from yours.)

1. The person knew about the boat ramp at Cottesloe and how to get to it by car.

not necessarily. i dont know the layout myself at all, so not sure if it would need to be a deliberate act to get the car where it was, or if it could of been an accidental turning etc that got it there. my thoughts on the car was that the original plan was to leave it in the car park, or parked somewhere it would be discovered in the short term (eg next couple of days). i think something went wrong and the driver ended up in the wrong area, so the car was pushed into the ocean so as not to draw attention to quickly. to me this suggests someone that doesnt live immediately near the car dump spot, but yet not too far away. (if you just kidnapped/murdered someone then you want to limit your time spent driving about in the victims car.)

2. They were aware the tide would be in at the time they took the car there and the water would be up to the retaining wall.

As above, i think the car being in the water wasnt the original plan, and the driver had no idea of the tides and water level

3. They took the bag from the car (that was dumped in the sand dunes) for a reason and chose not to leave it behind in the car.

Your assuming the bag in the sand dunes belonged to the victim. that bag could of been anyone's. the victims bag could of been chucked during the clean up, buried with the victim, burnt etc.

4. They walked away from the dumped car on foot in the direction of Fremantle.

how do you know they went in the direction of Freo? they could have walked away and hitch hiked, or called someone to pick them up with an excuse for being on foot, or they could have had a helper involved in the car dump that picked them up afterwards.

5. They arrived home after the event without raising suspicion. (Were they single and living alone? Living with parents?)

This point is interesting. the perpetrator can drive a car, and was able to get around at night without arousing interest, so quite likely 18+. at that age you dont need to explain too much if your out all night, unless you have a significant other at home that expected you home. eg if they live with parents or had housemates, could simply say they went to a party and crashed at old mate johnno's house. if they lived alone then no one to ask.

6. Possibly lived between Fremantle and Cottesloe and could walk home on foot.

or hitch hike/have a mate pick them up with likely excuse. for instance bit hard to come up with a believable scenario for being in cottesloe at that time if you live in armadale.

7. They did not have work on Monday due to public holiday or they could work in hospitality.

this i agree with, although this would cover most of the population.

8. They were not drunk.

there are varying levels of inebriation. i dont think the perpetrator was falling down pissed, as if they showed signs of high levels of inebriation then its unlikely the victim would of gone with the perpetrator willingly, and it would of been a lot harder to kidnap the victim if the perpetrator was drunk. this doesn't however rule out low levels of alcohol consumption.

9. They were a similar age to Julie.

again, not necessarily. with no idea of the ploy that was used to get at the victim, it is hard to predict age. Julie was 22 years old. the offender could of been a (potential?) love interest, which could suggest an age of about 18 to 30. if the offender was a stranger that was able to get physical control of the victim through some form of interaction, then this could stretch the offenders age out to about 50. we also dont know if the victim was "selcted" prior, and a scenario manufactured to capture her, or was it a chance occurrence

10. There was only one of them.

not enough info to come to this conclusion in my opinion. if we knew more about the details in point 9, then we could make a judgement on this. if there was more than 1 offender though, i would venture that there is a strong bond between the offenders, either through blood ties or previous offending which prevented anyone informing on other offenders for the reward, or one offender wielded strong power and/or fear over any other offenders for the same reasons.



In my opinion the main part of this case will be working out how and where the victim was accosted by the offender. did she make it home and that was the original crime scene, or was she grabbed prior to this?

some web sites have information saying the victims wallet was in her house, which suggests she made it home. however is this fact, or is it something which has been added to the story over the years? is there anything else to suggest she had made it home? was the wallet fingerprinted to ensure it hadn't been planted by the offender, and instead was placed in the house by the victim? was there any eye witnesses to the fiat arriving at the house, and if so, what time did it arrive, and what time did it leave again? was there any evidence of break in at the premises on the night in question, or of an attack occurring? where was the flat mate?

the victim went missing early monday morning, yet the car was found wednesday morning. so quite possibly dumped tuesday night/very early wednesday morning. where was the car stored in the interim? did the offender move it after work on tuesday? how common of a car was it, was it rare enough that some one may have noticed it parked up prior to being dumped? the photos ive seen online of the car recovery, the car has no number plates. were these removed by the cops, or were they missing?

according to the crimestoppers website, the victim left the function at the parmelia hilton with a colleague, and was seen leaning into her car via the passenger door. the victim then returned to the function. what was she doing in the car at this point?

too many questions and too little amount of info being shared by WAPOL. surely the cops have found some of the answers by now, they just dont want to share.
 
mrskafoops said:
Hey Team!
I can’t sleep 😞
I’ve been thinking about characteristics/profile of the person who committed this crime. My list follows… please give feedback, comment and add your own points.

1. The person knew about the boat ramp at Cottesloe and how to get to it by car.
2. They were aware the tide would be in at the time they took the car there and the water would be up to the retaining wall.
Click to expand...
Both possibilities- but first I think we need to ask why Cottesloe? What/why would you choose Cottesloe Beach? Pro-its easy to get to from Stirling hwy. Its also aprox a 30 minute walk from the beach back to Stirling Hwy, where they could have either left their car or caught a Taxi home, no one would know they had been anywhere near the beach. Con - its on a main rd, which even back then would have meant the possibility of being seen.
mrskafoops said:
3. They took the bag from the car (that was dumped in the sand dunes) for a reason and chose not to leave it behind in the car.
Click to expand...
We cant be sure it was Julies and it was found in an odd place. Unless they were after something in her bag and threw the bag out when they were leaving the scene.
mrskafoops said:
4. They walked away from the dumped car on foot in the direction of Fremantle.
5. They arrived home after the event without raising suspicion. (Were they single and living alone? Living with parents?)
6. Possibly lived between Fremantle and Cottesloe and could walk home on foot.
Click to expand...
If she met some one there, they would have had their own car? We dont know how they left the scene. Surely if they got a lift of some sort it would have been reported?
mrskafoops said:
7. They did not have work on Monday due to public holiday or they could work in hospitality.
8. They were not drunk.
9. They were a similar age to Julie.
10. There was only one of them.
Click to expand...
see above- unless she was hijacked at the lights on Stirling rd or met a love interest.
My mind keeps telling me she swerved her own car off the road either to escape some one who was in her car or chasing her in another car, but then that doesn't answer where her body is. So no scap that? Unless she jumped out as the car was going down the path? Also no, as she would have at least lost a shoe and she certainly would not have had time to grab her hand bag.
I still think the break in at her house and the car trying to run her off the road are significant, surely both cant just be coincidental?
mrskafoops said:
Also, I’ve been thinking about why Julie wasn’t in the car. Did this person not want to risk being caught with a body when they were driving the car to Cottesloe?
Or did they dump the body somewhere else remotely because they didn’t want it to be found?
Why not just torch the car? Would that have attracted more attention than dumping it at Cott?
Click to expand...
Looking at the map just now I noticed 'The John Black Dune Park'. Any one know anything about it? Could she be buried there??
It's really hard to get any idea of what happened when there are no clues.
 
Thanks for your thoughts :)

The description of the bag in the dunes is:
The bag with all the stuff in was a tan colour. Quite thin really. The diary had a brown cover and 1988 printed on the front - nothing else. Nothing was written in the diary - just some squiggles like someone was testing a biro. There were a couple of small purse-wallets with a small number of coins. A larger plastic document holder. The biro was white and had Hawaiian Club printed on it. There may have been a couple of other small items.
The coins were pre-1988 - one cent and two cent coins. All the items including the main bag were quite corroded.

This indicates to me that the bag is likely to be Julies .. it seems too coincidental.

I thought that if the bag was discarded in the dunes it may have been done by someone walking with the bag away from where the car was dumped.

At the time of disappearance Julie was dating a bouncer at the Racquet Club, who had recently been in trouble for steroid use.
She may have gone from the work function to see him at work?

I am reluctant to think that someone was hiding in her car because she was sighted leaning into the passenger side just prior to driving away from the car park at 12.30ish so she probably would have seen someone lurking in her back seat and would have had time to get away.

As for Cottesloe, yes we cannot be certain that putting the car in the ocean was intentional but if it was then Cottesloe is the only beach with a boat ramp and easy beach access for a car unless you head all the way north or south. Plus the ramp is behind the Indianna Tea House which would obstruct the view.

Interesting about John Black Dune Park...
 
mrskafoops said:
Thanks for your thoughts :)

The description of the bag in the dunes is:
The bag with all the stuff in was a tan colour. Quite thin really. The diary had a brown cover and 1988 printed on the front - nothing else. Nothing was written in the diary - just some squiggles like someone was testing a biro. There were a couple of small purse-wallets with a small number of coins. A larger plastic document holder. The biro was white and had Hawaiian Club printed on it. There may have been a couple of other small items.
The coins were pre-1988 - one cent and two cent coins. All the items including the main bag were quite corroded.

This indicates to me that the bag is likely to be Julies .. it seems too coincidental.

I thought that if the bag was discarded in the dunes it may have been done by someone walking with the bag away from where the car was dumped.

At the time of disappearance Julie was dating a bouncer at the Racquet Club, who had recently been in trouble for steroid use.
She may have gone from the work function to see him at work?

I am reluctant to think that someone was hiding in her car because she was sighted leaning into the passenger side just prior to driving away from the car park at 12.30ish so she probably would have seen someone lurking in her back seat and would have had time to get away.

As for Cottesloe, yes we cannot be certain that putting the car in the ocean was intentional but if it was then Cottesloe is the only beach with a boat ramp and easy beach access for a car unless you head all the way north or south. Plus the ramp is behind the Indianna Tea House which would obstruct the view.

Interesting about John Black Dune Park...
Click to expand...
Indiana Tea house didn't exist back then.

There are many boat ramps on the Swan River that afforded much more seclusion during the act, as well as wharfs and other areas were the water is deep enough to hide a vehicle better.

The former boyfriend had been ruled out of contention by WAPol.

Late at night looking into the passenger side doesn't preclude her from not looking into the back seat area.

There is no indication anyone else not being involved or being involved. There is a train station within a reasonable walking distance.
David Everett once lived in Swanbourne and was very familiar with the area as well.

There are still unanswered questions about preceding events reported in the media that strongly suggests that someone Unknown to Julie scoped her out and attempted to stop her car previously. The break in and the road rage incidents in particular. She didn't recognise the other vehicle nor the driver although she allegedly saw enough to describe them to her sister.

The bag could well of been intentioned for use later by the perpetrator as a proof of life, as was the bag of clothes, hence these items being removed from her car prior to it going into the ocean.

If it was intended to be a kidnapping then the extraction and abduction of Julie most likely would've required accomplices and a vehicle to remove her from the extraction point. I note that David Everett was a courier truck driver at around this time. If Cottesloe Beach was where he had his truck parked up prior to the events then bundling her into a back of a truck and locking her in might not have to involve anyone else at all.

On the other hand there's also this other potential witness that I had met who described what he thinks is the burial of her body at Cottesloe involving two perpetrators which I've outlined in previous posts. This one is interesting because he described a number of discussions with WAPol, and described exactly where he thought that he saw her being disposed off, as well as detailed descriptions of the perpetrators and their behaviours. He said that WAPol allegedly don't believe him. If we read about another forensic dig in Cottesloe south of the groyne at the beach under where the sun dial is, then I'd be assuming that they are indeed checking out the information that he allegedly told them.

It just shows that there are many potential scenarios to what actually happened to Julie.
What facts there are have only ruled out 1 or 2 I believe from suspicion, but not knowing what the Police have discovered, I'm not sure other than what had been reported in the media, as to exactly who and why have been ruled out.

Anyway keep up the sleuthing. As even just keeping the case in the public eye, has it's own value to solving this mystery.

Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk
 
Coroner's case incoming, if the Coroner approves, as the case has now been referred by WA Police to the Coroner's Office.

thewest.com.au

Will $250k reward solve Perth’s baffling cold case ‘murder’?

A quarter-million reward, a few cryptic clues and 34 years of police work have been unable to produce an answer and now one of WA’s most baffling mysteries is set for the spotlight of a coroner’s inquest.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

Screen Shot 2022-04-24 at 10.53.56 am.png
 
BFew said:
Coroner's case incoming, if the Coroner approves, as the case has now been referred by WA Police to the Coroner's Office.

thewest.com.au

Will $250k reward solve Perth’s baffling cold case ‘murder’?

A quarter-million reward, a few cryptic clues and 34 years of police work have been unable to produce an answer and now one of WA’s most baffling mysteries is set for the spotlight of a coroner’s inquest.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

View attachment 1382274
Click to expand...

What tremendous news! We've seen how the role of the Coroner has changed in the last decade and how effective they can be in bringing answers for serious unsolved crime. Really chuffed.
 
BFew said:
Coroner's case incoming, if the Coroner approves, as the case has now been referred by WA Police to the Coroner's Office.

thewest.com.au

Will $250k reward solve Perth’s baffling cold case ‘murder’?

A quarter-million reward, a few cryptic clues and 34 years of police work have been unable to produce an answer and now one of WA’s most baffling mysteries is set for the spotlight of a coroner’s inquest.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au
Click to expand...
The headline at the above link says,

'Julie Cutler: Coroner to hold inquest into Perth woman’s 1988 disappearance'​

as though the Coroner has already approved an inquest, yet when I first read the article I got the impression that the Coroner now has to approve an inquest going ahead.

So is the West jumping the gun a bit in really wanting an inquest to go ahead, that they can add to their True Crime Stable of current cases of public interest, or has the Coroner actually approved that an inquest will go ahead?

In any case, does anyone know roughly what percentage of cases referred by WA Police to the Coroner, don't make it to the inquest stage (assuming they are still unsolved)?

What reasons might there possibly be for the WA Coroner to not approve an inquest into this case, at this point in time?

'the decision whether to hold an inquest is ultimately the coroner’s.

“I can advise the court has received a report from the police,” a coroner’s office spokeswoman said this week.

“The court will prepare the matter for inquest hearing.”'
 

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mrskafoops said:
Check out this post from Lost Perth on Facebook
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From all I gathered from the trial BREs tactics were to present a friendly non-threatening face when offering lifts

This has more of a blitz attacker feel
 
GreyCrow said:
From all I gathered from the trial BREs tactics were to present a friendly non-threatening face when offering lifts

This has more of a blitz attacker feel
Click to expand...

Iirc BRE put a hood over the Karrakatta victim's head and bundled her in to the back of his car/van?
 
Kurve said:
Iirc BRE put a hood over the Karrakatta victim's head and bundled her in to the back of his car/van?
Click to expand...
And in 1990 at Hollywood Hospital, he went full Psycho at work with a female Social Worker, covering her mouth and attempting to drag her back into the bathroom, until she fought him off and he came to his senses.
 
GreyCrow said:
From all I gathered from the trial BREs tactics were to present a friendly non-threatening face when offering lifts

This has more of a blitz attacker feel
Click to expand...
Not to forget the 1988 Huntingdale attack on a teen in her bedroom at night, when he broke into her house.

And all the other Huntingdale and surrounds attacks he was suspected of committing, that he was never formally charged for, as far as we know.
Some of which were detailed in the pre-trial court documents.
 
GreyCrow said:
From all I gathered from the trial BREs tactics were to present a friendly non-threatening face when offering lifts

This has more of a blitz attacker feel
Click to expand...
In mrskafoops post, the lady allegedly r*ped was walking to her car.
She was not being offered a lift or wanting a lift, because she was about to drive her own car.
And her attacker put her in the boot of her car (not his) and drove off with her car, before he r*ped her.
 
BFew said:
In mrskafoops post, the lady allegedly r*ped was walking to her car.
She was not being offered a lift or wanting a lift, because she was about to drive her own car.
And her attacker put her in the boot of her car (not his) and drove off with her car, before he r*ped her.
Click to expand...
Thats how I read it as well - people then wanted to lay the blame at BREs feet - my comment was at the time BRE had moved onto offering lifts

Secondly taking her car would not have occurred to BRE - he liked the safe and familiar

I didnt think it was that hard to read
 

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Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

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