Just hand the flamin flag to the pies and be done with it

[thegreig]

You flogs will never let that go will you? The last game of the season, Pies had already wrapped up top spot while your lot were fighting for positions at the bottom of the eight. It was obvious we travelled at half pace and yet your mob could only finish us in the dying minutes and even then had Beams capitalised we would have beaten you.

If you bring that up, bring up the fact we lost to the lions before that. Oh and that we smashed you by 60+ points in the meeting before that.

Ok so i guess you travelled half pace round 16 2009 when we won by 45, round 7 2008 when we won by 65 or round 18 when we won by 54, round 13 2007 when we won by 8... We had a shocking start in 2010 only wining our 2nd game for the season in round 8 by only 3 points against Richmond after that we only had 3 losses with one draw for the rest of the year. So say whatever you want champ but the fact is hawthorn match up well against Collingwood.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Geelong, Dogs, Collingwood, Freo, Hawks... Hell even SK have plenty of time to sort their act out. They still have the cattle (though Lenny is a big loss).

Any of these sides can beat each other on their day. Freo are a worry as they have a huge home ground advantage on top. If they can sneak top 2 they'll cruise to the Granny. I'm aware it is a big if.

Essendon will break a few eggs but I dont think this year is their year, there will be a slide at some point but they'll make the finals. First to admit I am suprised at their turn-around.

Sydney, Adelaide to round it out.

I really dont rate Carlton.

 

[winty]

Their home games have been against inferior teams, and Gary Ablett was also a massive part of those winning records too. That said, their record of the past few years has been great, but I don't see what it has to do with their current age at all.I think the age record is the toughest one of all because old players feel the effects of a season the longer it goes.

Actually, that record includes all our home games at the MCG and Etihad Stadium, as well as games at Skilled Stadium, and actually stretched to 30 games from Round 2, 2008 to Round 17, 2010. The only team we didn't beat during that stretch was St.Kilda, for the simple fact that Round 1 this year was the first home game we've had against the Saints since 2006.

Don't know what your fascination with Ablett is about either. The last time we played St.Kilda in the rain with Ablett, we lost, the last time we played Fremantle in Perth with Ablett, we lost, and the last time we played Hawthorn with Ablett, we won by 2 points. This year we've played St.Kilda in the wet and Fremantle in Perth and won, and we beat Hawthorn by 19 points, all without Ablett. Simply put, as strange as it sounds, we're a better team without him.

 

[pivotal]

Of course we shouldn't be handing the 'flamin flag' to the magpies in April. A season is a marathon, not a sprint.

As obvious as that response sounds, in recent seasons it has amazed me how often the football media has thrown its hands up early in a season and declared the premiership race over. These people are supposed to be experts. Frankly, it's disturbing.

The media did it half way through last season when Geelong was in great form. Then the Saints knocked off the Cats half way through the season and the media celebrated the revival of the premiership race. A race, they thought, was between Geelong and St Kilda only.

The media seems to be starting to do it again with Collingwood in 2011. Although Geelong's win on the weekend may have checked this, at least temporarily.

It's all about timing your run. Hawthorn surged at the right time in 2008. Collingwood improved during the course of 2010. Plenty of time for an as yet largely unidentified premiership threat to build and reach a crescendo in September/October of season 2011.

Pity it takes a bigfooty contributor like me to tell you this because the footy media don't seem to get it.

 

[HFF]

too much pressure and really all it takes is an injury to Jolly or swan or pendles and they quickly come back to the pack! They arent as good as essendon 2000 or saints 2009 or carlton 1995 simply on top of their game right now but its april. They will fail in 2011.

Too much pressure? Pfft. We're at the beginning of round 6 and are 5-0. Hardly pressure.

Obviously injuries can bring us "back to the pack" but if any of the other "contenders" receive significant injuries, the pack further balls behind and the gap becomes wider.

Now the most hilarious part is, "not as good as Saints 2009". Please spare us the nonsense. 0 flags from back-to-back attemtps.

Collingwood 2010 >>>> St Kilda 2009.

 

[Falchoon]

I'm aware that Port Adelaide were 27 years and 2 days in the 2004 Grand Final, but their opponents that day were Brisbane who were 27 years and 183 days old, so that match is irrelevant because one of them had to win.

Only 2 teams that year?

 

[KissStephanie]

About three posts earlier you stated as fact "the last time a team over the age of 27 won the premiership was in 1924 and there wasn't a Grand Final that year" and you're backtracking already.

I'm not backtracking at all. Port Adelaide were 27 years and 2 days when they beat Brisbane in 2004 who were 27 years and 183 days, so the younger of the two teams won that day. Geelong will be older than both of those two teams by October, and the previous team to win a Grand Final that was over 27 years was prior to 1924.

Collingwood's most irreplacable young players are Pendlebury, Thomas, Cloke and Dawes - just like Geelong has Selwood, Taylor and Varcoe.

That's four young Collingwood players who are way ahead of those three young Geelong's players. I also think that at least Ben Reid can be included as well because he is a better player than Harry Taylor, even though he is three years younger.

Your other key players including Swan, Jolly, Didak and Tarrant are 28+ just as Scarlett, Chapman, Ottens and Enright are.

Swan isn't 28 years old for a while yet, and those four Geelong players are actually between the ages of 29-31 so it's not comparable. Not only is Geelong considerably older than Collingwood, but their reliance on older players is much greater too. Collingwood's reliance is much more on their younger players, which is a much better position to be in.

Only 2 teams that year?

Yes only two teams played in the Grand Final in 2004.

 

[justlookingaround]

[*]StKilda 2 years ago lost to a lowly Essendon in the H&A and then to Geelong in the GF

Nobody remembers the fact that North beat St. Kilda thay year too, huh?

 

[KissStephanie]

Actually, that record includes all our home games at the MCG and Etihad Stadium, as well as games at Skilled Stadium, and actually stretched to 30 games from Round 2, 2008 to Round 17, 2010.

I meant that the matches they play at Geelong are against inferior and interstate teams. The big matches against the top teams are not played there.

Don't know what your fascination with Ablett is about either. The last time we played St.Kilda in the rain with Ablett, we lost, the last time we played Fremantle in Perth with Ablett, we lost, and the last time we played Hawthorn with Ablett, we won by 2 points. This year we've played St.Kilda in the wet and Fremantle in Perth and won, and we beat Hawthorn by 19 points, all without Ablett. Simply put, as strange as it sounds, we're a better team without him.

I disagree. Geelong were a better team with Gary Ablett because he was their best player. To isolate three results as you have is not going to give an accurate guide regarding that because there are other factors that contributed to those results as well. Geelong won many matches with him, but have only won five matches without him.

 

[Quinz]

Geelong won many matches with him, but have only won five matches without him.

I think Geelong were too Ablett conscious sometimes which lead to them being inefficient, they are playing better football now than they were last year with Ablett in the team.

Other midfielders have stepped up to fill the void and they are unearthing some quality youngsters. Not to mention the drama surrounding Ablett/Bomber/Essendon/GC which would have been a distraction.

And Geelong have won 1067 games without Ablett, so I would have to think they are capable of covering for him. It's all in the stats.

 

[Alfonz]

After our poor pre-season and injury concerns, with a 4-1 start (that could easily have been 5-0 if we could kick straight) we have at least given ourselves a shot. If we don't get any more key injuries, and add the likes of Barlow, Suban, Broughton, Mzungu, etc as the season goes on, then we might be an outside chance of sneaking a home prelim. A few key injuries to Collingwood, and game on.

 

[KissStephanie]

I think Geelong were too Ablett conscious sometimes which lead to them being inefficient, they are playing better football now than they were last year with Ablett in the team.

Their best performances last year with Ablett in the team were better then the first five matches of this season.

Other midfielders have stepped up to fill the void and they are unearthing some quality youngsters.

Steve Johnson is up on last seasons averages, and Corey Enright is about the same, but James Bartel, Paul Chapman, James Kelly, and Joel Corey are down on last season, whilst Mitch Duncan hasn't matched Gary Ablett. Part of that has to do with the fact that Geelong are kicking more now than they were last season, but they still were a better team with Ablett because they dominated the competition, and it's much too early to say otherwise.

Not to mention the drama surrounding Ablett/Bomber/Essendon/GC which would have been a distraction.

The contract saga and the conflict with the coach were definite distractions, but he was still their best player.

And Geelong have won 1067 games without Ablett, so I would have to think they are capable of covering for him. It's all in the stats.

He played 192 matches for Geelong, and they won 124 with two draws though. From the beginning of 2007, he played 92 matches for 76 wins. Time will tell whether they can match that in the future.

 

[GarethHale]

I'm not backtracking at all. Port Adelaide were 27 years and 2 days when they beat Brisbane in 2004 who were 27 years and 183 days, so the younger of the two teams won that day. Geelong will be older than both of those two teams by October, and the previous team to win a Grand Final that was over 27 years was prior to 1924.That's four young Collingwood players who are way ahead of those three young Geelong's players. I also think that at least Ben Reid can be included as well because he is a better player than Harry Taylor, even though he is three years younger.Swan isn't 28 years old for a while yet, and those four Geelong players are actually between the ages of 29-31 so it's not comparable. Not only is Geelong considerably older than Collingwood, but their reliance on older players is much greater too. Collingwood's reliance is much more on their younger players, which is a much better position to be in.Yes only two teams played in the Grand Final in 2004.

It is clear that you are a typical armchair fan who spends hours reading up on stats, it's quite obvious your afl knowledge is limited to the confines of what you read on bigfooty so do us all a favor and never actually physically talk about footy to anybody! It's bad enough reading this pointless and way Off tangent dribble and if you were to actually talk.... Well no one fancies the sight of a stool appearing from your mouth. Have you ever played the game I think not. Have you ever been to a game?

 

[KissStephanie]

After our poor pre-season and injury concerns, with a 4-1 start (that could easily have been 5-0 if we could kick straight) we have at least given ourselves a shot. If we don't get any more key injuries, and add the likes of Barlow, Suban, Broughton, Mzungu, etc as the season goes on, then we might be an outside chance of sneaking a home prelim.

Freo are an outside chance of getting a home Preliminary Final, but not on their performances so far. They were lucky to beat Brisbane at the Gabba, and were okay against the Crows in Perth, and only fair against North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs in Perth. They have yet to play in Melbourne, and it's going to be very hard for Michael Barlow to show the same form he did before breaking his leg last year if he returns this year. They're currently sixth premiership favourites currently and that sounds about right to me at this stage.

A few key injuries to Collingwood, and game on.

The completely hypothetical of injuries is stupid and should not even be a talking point because all teams are equal regarding that. David Buttifant does a great job of getting players ready to go each week, and the recovery facilities at Collingwood are great, so I don't expect that to change anyway.

 

[bulletproof]

I also think that at least Ben Reid can be included as well because he is a better player than Harry Taylor, even though he is three years younger.

I'd be staggered if you would find one person on bigfooty, Collingwood supporter or not, who would agree with this absurd remark.

Embarrassing comment.

 

[Alfonz]

Freo are an outside chance of getting a home Preliminary Final, but not on their performances so far. They were lucky to beat Brisbane at the Gabba, and were okay against the Crows in Perth, and only fair against North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs in Perth. They have yet to play in Melbourne, and it's going to be very hard for Michael Barlow to show the same form he did before breaking his leg last year if he returns this year. They're currently sixth premiership favourites currently and that sounds about right to me at this stage.

The completely hypothetical of injuries is stupid and should not even be a talking point because all teams are equal regarding that. David Buttifant does a great job of getting players ready to go each week, and the recovery facilities at Collingwood are great, so I don't expect that to change anyway.

We are building for the end of the season just like Collingwood, but of course if the Pies play "April football" it is a masterstroke, while for us it just means we aren't showing good enough form. The only loss was to a 5-0 side playing about as well as Collingwood, whom we could have beaten if we kicked straight.

And don't write off Barlow. He is superhuman and will come back in Rd 12 and then win the Brownlow with 10 x 3 vote games.

In this discussion it is perfectly relevant (and far from stupid) to bring up injuries, as it is a very valid reason ... perhaps the only one ... why the Pies might be stopped. You were incredibly lucky with injuries last year, and it is not unreasonable to think that might change. It happens to all sides at some stage. You act like you have some magical medical staff that can prevent impact injuries during a game, when really it is just luck.

When Dean Solomon jumps the fence on GF day to bury a few elbows in the back of Swan and Pendlebury's heads, all this Buttifant fellow will be good for is ruling them out of the game with concussion.

 

[KissStephanie]

I'd be staggered if you would find one person on bigfooty, Collingwood supporter or not, who would agree with this absurd remark.

Harry Taylor was slightly better than Ben Reid last season, but I think Reid has been slightly better this season so far despite being three years younger and having played 37 less total matches, so it's not absurd at all. Therefore if it's reasonable for a Geelong supporter to include Taylor as an important young Geelong player, then it's absolutely reasonable for me to include Reid as an important young Collingwood player.

Embarrassing comment.

I am not the slightest bit embarrassed by it whatsoever because I firmly believe it regardless of what anybody else may or may not think.

 

[KissStephanie]

We are building for the end of the season just like Collingwood, but of course if the Pies play "April football" it is a masterstroke, while for us it just means we aren't showing good enough form.

Collingwood's performances have been much more impressive than Fremantle's, so it's not reasonable to compare the two teams to date this season so far.

The only loss was to a 5-0 side playing about as well as Collingwood, whom we could have beaten if we kicked straight.

Fremantle stole a win over Brisbane in Round 1, and although Geelong has been playing well, I think Collingwood has played better than them overall so far this season too.

And don't write off Barlow. He is superhuman and will come back in Rd 12 and then win the Brownlow with 10 x 3 vote games.

He was a good player before he broke his leg, but of course he isn't "superhuman." The break was so serious, that if he is to return this season, I do not expect him to show that kind of form this year.

In this discussion it is perfectly relevant (and far from stupid) to bring up injuries, as it is a very valid reason ... perhaps the only one ... why the Pies might be stopped.

Such a ridiculous hypothetical regarding the possibility of one team getting injuries is absolutely stupid. Pavlich could do his knee next week, but it would be stupid to even mention it as a possibility.

You were incredibly lucky with injuries last year, and it is not unreasonable to think that might change. It happens to all sides at some stage.

Save that for someone else because I don't believe in luck, fate or superstitions. There is as much chance of Collingwood getting injuries as there is of Freo getting more injuries. It wasn't bad luck that Nathan Brown needed a knee reconstruction. It was simply unfortunate.

You act like you have some magical medical staff that can prevent impact injuries during a game, when really it is just luck.

I don't believe in luck, and it can't be proven that it exists either. That said, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that club facilities and good medical and performance staff can get players ready to go these days. It started with Sydney in 2005 when the methods used by David Misson were able to keep their best players on the field during back-to-back Grand Finals in 2005-06, and he has been able to maintain that since he has moved to St.Kilda. David Buttifant has taken it even further.

When Dean Solomon jumps the fence on GF day to bury a few elbows in the back of Swan and Pendlebury's heads, all this Buttifant fellow will be good for is ruling them out of the game with concussion.

I don't see the reason Dean Solomon would be at the MCG on Grand Final day in the first place, but he is made of marshmallow and fairy floss anyway, so I doubt very much if Swan or Pendlebury would even feel the contact.

 

[tazhawk]

Seriously i can't see any team troubling the pies this year. They are just to bloody good with superstars on every line.

Its hard to say it but they will become the first team to win every game for the season

That seems a typical Western Bulldogs response.

I will go down a different path.

The Hawks worry the life out of Collingwood and I would back my side to beat them.

 

[tomwalsh]

Too much pressure? Pfft. We're at the beginning of round 6 and are 5-0. Hardly pressure.

Obviously injuries can bring us "back to the pack" but if any of the other "contenders" receive significant injuries, the pack further balls behind and the gap becomes wider.

Now the most hilarious part is, "not as good as Saints 2009". Please spare us the nonsense. 0 flags from back-to-back attemtps.

Collingwood 2010 >>>> St Kilda 2009.

exactly. Wait til finals the pressure IT will be unbearable. It was for great teams like cats 2008 and saints 2009 being 19-0. Especially being collingwood and this team of players, isnt a back to back team, you'll see. Saints 2009 wouldnt beat pies 2010??? ha get ya hand off it. We ran over you in the GF if not for a bounce you know what would be. Saints 2009 >>> Saints 2010. In dry perfect conditions under a roof with both teams in their best form the saints beat geelong and if not for a dal santo brain fade should've won comfortably by 4-5 goals.
It is so frustrating the saints deserve a flag more than any team, it just suks. But I know and so do many that we were very unlucky. ridiculously so.

 

[tomwalsh]

That seems a typical Western Bulldogs response.

I will go down a different path.

The Hawks worry the life out of Collingwood and I would back my side to beat them.

They will. I and 3/4 of AFL fans will be with you on grand final day. Youll do it. Franklin, Roughead will dominate the air. Mitchell and sewell too hard and rioli, bateman, birchall will use pace and class to cut the lines of collingwood (the lines ross lyon/paul roos are responsible for that malthouse simply copied)

 

[astrowizzle]

^ nice post speshal ed. Other supporters need to take the blinkers off and realize the post above is about as true as it gets. But of course everybody forgets we played all the top 4 sides twice last year. We had the hardest draw of anybody that I can recall.

I dont think there were other teams (maybe 1 or 2) that can lay claim to playing the top 4 sides twice each.

Essendon had what was referred to as the draw from hell.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-2010-fixture-list/story-e6frf9jf-1225792711003

 

[Stazza71]

exactly. Wait til finals the pressure IT will be unbearable. It was for great teams like cats 2008 and saints 2009 being 19-0. Especially being collingwood and this team of players, isnt a back to back team, you'll see. Saints 2009 wouldnt beat pies 2010??? ha get ya hand off it. We ran over you in the GF if not for a bounce you know what would be. Saints 2009 >>> Saints 2010. In dry perfect conditions under a roof with both teams in their best form the saints beat geelong and if not for a dal santo brain fade should've won comfortably by 4-5 goals.
It is so frustrating the saints deserve a flag more than any team, it just suks. But I know and so do many that we were very unlucky. ridiculously so.[/quote]

Lol at that comment - no team "deserves" a flag - they have to earn it - something the saints are woefully inept at

Dream on I say!!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

That's four young Collingwood players who are way ahead of those three young Geelong's players.

S******.

I also think that at least Ben Reid can be included as well because he is a better player than Harry Taylor, even though he is three years younger.

Guffaw! Never change KS, I'm kind of glad Collingwood finally won something, means I get to read your work more often.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I meant that the matches they play at Geelong are against inferior and interstate teams. The big matches against the top teams are not played there..

And as winty said, the record includes all our home games, including the big teams and including games at Ethiad/MCG. Your point is irrelevant.

I disagree. Geelong were a better team with Gary Ablett because he was their best player. To isolate three results as you have is not going to give an accurate guide regarding that because there are other factors that contributed to those results as well. Geelong won many matches with him, but have only won five matches without him.

They won quite a few games without him over the past few years as well you know.