Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Snuffaluphagus]

I do think he’s a proven dud so we can agree to disagree.

But I understand why people are going to be resistant to realising it, no one wants to accept that we’ve invested half a decade into a mediocre coach.

It’s just going to be a painful tenure until the club comes to terms, because this list plus A-grade trade ins is absolutely good enough to carry him to week 1 finals action and people will be okay with that. When we should actually be eyeing off multiple grand final appearances and premiership challenges if we had that elite coach to cap off the elite list.

Top 4 is the minimum requirement next year, even if just Bolton and no Pickett. You can hold me to account on that.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

What’s the shelf life of JLo-ball?

Probably a long time because it's not very taxing. Needs to become more taxing though I'd argue.

 

[dont bowl there]

You need to understand how contested & uncontested works. When we need to win the ball at the contest we’re one if the best but we don’t play a style that allows for as many contested ball opportunities as other teams.

Which is exactly what I have been saying, if you are 2nd for uncontested and 16th for contested of course it's the game style and I'm saying I don't believe that style will work in finals/close games. What do I need to understand? Please enlighten me on how it works.

 

[james haish]

Probably a long time because it's not very taxing. Needs to become more taxing though I'd argue.

Didn’t Champion Data say earlier in the year that our style isn’t sustainable because we play between the arcs a lot more than other sides, meaning having to cover and defend the largest part of the ground?

 

[WilloTree]

Here's a fun exercise. All 18 clubs cut ties with their current coach and all of them are put in a coaches draft. What number does JL get drafted?

I reckon 16. There's only 17 coaches, and he probably goes ahead of Nicks. Yze maybe but he's unproven, and I'd say unproven is better to most clubs than whatever JL has proven. It could be lower too, 'pass' might get a run before him.

Pretty sure this is a wind up.

 

[MadMundy]

Longmuir isn't the 16th best coach in the league that's ridiculous.

 

[Dockeroo]

Debates on whether JL is 16th ranked coach or not is kinda pointless. Too subjective.

However if he was sacked tomorrow morning I’m 100% certain he would never get a head coach job again in the AFL, and that speaks to where he sits in the relative pecking order.

 

[malpaso]

Didn’t Champion Data say earlier in the year that our style isn’t sustainable because we play between the arcs a lot more than other sides, meaning having to cover and defend the largest part of the ground?

Better than playing around with it in your backline I would have thought. In any event, this is due to our lack of forward pressure.

 

[malpaso]

Which is exactly what I have been saying, if you are 2nd for uncontested and 16th for contested of course it's the game style and I'm saying I don't believe that style will work in finals/close games. What do I need to understand? Please enlighten me on how it works.

I see your point but did you consider that perhaps we have changed because the only contested player capable is Fyfe (and it's why he's playing)? So we have perhaps adapted to our player list in order to move the ball better?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'm not a JL sycophant here, I just agree with Hocking I think it was who said "don't bother making sure you have the best coach, just not a bad coach. It's mostly the list"

I'm not convinced he's a bad coach yet. If he misses the 8 next year with what we seem to be doing this offseason, he is definitively a bad coach IMO. If he fails to at least make a prelim, I would agree he has failed again and is probably not good enough (disclaimers for an unprecedented "smimjury list", but it has to be unprecedented).

Whatever happens, I am not re-signing until the season is finished and not firing until finals have essentially been 100% missed.

 

[dont bowl there]

I see your point but did you consider that perhaps we have changed because the only contested player capable is Fyfe (and it's why he's playing)? So we have perhaps adapted to our player list in order to move the ball better?

Quite possibly true, results don't seem to suggest it's the way forward though.

 

[Purpletown]

What’s the shelf life of JLo-ball?

September 2025 is the expiry date on JLo-ball. It's finals or bust.

 

[MadEyeEmmy]

Ew all the Ross Lyon fanboys have returned

 

[james haish]

Debates on whether JL is 16th ranked coach or not is kinda pointless. Too subjective.

However if he was sacked tomorrow morning I’m 100% certain he would never get a head coach job again in the AFL, and that speaks to where he sits in the relative pecking order.

100%.

 

[wakojako]

September 2025 is the expiry date on JLo-ball. It's finals or bust.

The trap is not just making finals but actually going deep into September and eventually winning a GF. Surely If we get both Pickett and Bolton our list would be top three for talent in the comp right? I don't want another Beveridge, Hinkley, Voss scenario where you just make up the numbers. Our first priority is making finals to begin with but something to keep in mind. We should bring winning one premiership with this list at a minimum.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Isn't "master coach" mostly just a media invention? Or at the very least the kind of "need for a hero" you were decrying before?

Master coaches are pretty rare. Of the current crop Sam Mitchell looks the most likely. He's a snipy campaigner but he's clearly been seeing the game better than 99.9% for a long time.

I was big on JL until the last month but to be honest the inability to get the boys up in season defining games and moments raises some concerns.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Having spent the best part of a week mostly trying to forget about the sport entirely a thought eventually occurred to me. It's not my actual opinion (which is what I've stated earlier that this style isn't suited to finals and pressure) but...call it a crumb of faith/hope/delusion:

There's an incredible amount of conformity/monotony at the moment in terms of gamestyles across the league. Almost too much. Footy is both the most exciting its been in quite some time but also the most uniform. Only two teams are really playing outside the established norm (well, 3 if you include North): Collingwood and Freo.

Premierships in even years like this historically tend to be won by both the best/most experienced and luckiest sides. It's great footy. But the runaway premierships/dynasties usually have some great leap forward/lateral thinking that the rest of the competition struggle to keep on top of despite them previously seeming trivial and easy to manage. We've had 4 weeks of finals intensity missing key cogs with more and more being learned to adapt. Add in explosive improvements of Jackson, Amiss and Treacy with more confidence, more experience and better conditioning, a far more motivated Darcy and Ryan (and rest of the squad but specifically these two)...I dunno. There's a big difference here. I feel like too many quality teams and coaches have spent an inordinate amount of time and effort into our games in comparison to their own bitter rivals to think there's not some smoke here either. To the point of literal exhaustion and failing to fire the following week...sometimes against those same established rivals.

In the next year we will either crash and burn and get a new coach or break away and establish ourselves as the new threat that the league has to adapt to. Either way, as much as I f@%&ing hate that we're not playing finals and think this is one of if not the worst season I've been a Freo supporter: I'm kinda glad we're going through it now as the boys try to establish themselves as men. I'd be a lot more "pitchforky" if the last 3 weeks weren't against the Top 3 form teams and 3 of the top 4 teams in the competition and we hadn't basically had a lot of faux finals experience but we have. There's something to actually develop on: A baseline to lift to surpass in pre-season.

I doubt he has it but I haven't completely given up on JL. There's something there it's just all weird and misshapen at the moment.

 

[Wigarus]

Ew all the Ross Lyon fanboys have returned

God forbid people celebrate the only better-than-average period in the clubs history.

 

[james haish]

September 2025 is the expiry date on JLo-ball. It's finals or bust.

I think it's already gone past the expiry date. It's up to JLo to scrape the mould off and salvage something

 

[Purpletown]

I think it's already gone past the expiry date. It's up to JLo to scrape the mould off and salvage something

FFC don't take much notice of expiry dates, more likely to wait until things start to smell before disposing of them

 

[MadEyeEmmy]

God forbid people celebrate the only better-than-average period in the clubs history.

It was 10 years ago. Move on. Contribute something useful to the discussion.

 

[malpaso]

That’s all fine, but JL isn’t a better coach than him. This is clearly evident based on results.

I liked Ross when he was with us however I've come to think of his style as like soccer teams that are underdogs and just play 90% of their team behind the ball trying to capitalize on a mistake up front.
The same way less skilled soccer teams somehow eke out a 0-0 draw against superior teams, it's boring and frustrating.
All the kudos to him for getting us to a GF but I don't think he's doing anything fantastic.

 

[nurries]

God forbid people celebrate the only better-than-average period in the clubs history.

The same people that have a go about the Eagles talking about historic flags

 

[StingBitten]

Very uninformed and anecdotal view here but it seems to me the teams that go deep into finals seem to have either an arseh*le coach or an arseh*le captain (or sometimes both).

Toby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

for GWS, Mitchell for Hawks, even Trent Cochin went from soft as bugger to a tough bustard.

We've got a brilliant defender in Pearce as captain but he's a hippie. JL is a shy farm-boy introvert. Remember when Mundy was captain for a year? Great bloke, skilful player and he was utterly woeful in firing the boys up. Reclaimed his form when he went back to being a player again.

Lyon was an arseh*le for us for years, it transformed Walters from wasted talent to one of the best small forwards in the league. I even remember him saying in early 2012 he hated Ross, had an offer tabled from Port and was gonna bugger off. Then he changed his attitude and became a real player.

There's no 'rockets' being fired up anyone's backside, there's critical feedback and quiet learnings. Even ex-players like Ballantyne and Crowley have been open with their concerns about how meek and nice we are.

The captain can and should be changed to Serong immediately - he has what it takes to drive the club to incredible standards, it'd be a bold and unscrupulous move - plus he's more likely to play more games than Pearce barring mass injuries.

As for JL, we all know he has another year at least - I'd be getting an assistant or someone else in with steel balls.

It really is mostly mental at Freo.

 

[blue shark]

Master coaches are pretty rare. Of the current crop Sam Mitchell looks the most likely. He's a snipy campaigner but he's clearly been seeing the game better than 99.9% for a long time.

I was big on JL until the last month but to be honest the inability to get the boys up in season defining games and moments raises some concerns.

I’d also put C Scott in that bracket.
The coaching at Freo has always held us back at crucial times.
If people think it’s the players, then sure our coaching and development
is fine
Reality is that it’s the combination of both that gets the best results and
IMO I’d pass ours as B for the list, C for management.