Kangaroos give "McGuire" a serve

[romanwfw]

i'll tell you one thing, i'll go for the roos and doggies any day before i even start barracking for collingwood or essendon in a footy match

 

[Hearts to hearts]

We may not have worked harder, but we must have worked smarter. The proof is in the pudding. Bad administration has crippled your club.
QUOTE]

Welcome to Magpieland. Your admin bungles, no matter how tragic, can be worked through, thanks to to the historical accidents of geography and 30 years extra building time in the VFL. The last thirty years have shown that off field security is not just about initiative, smartness or hard work - although they can help onfield performance a fair bit. Having said that, you can only admire how Eddie and his team turned things around at Collingwood, and make sure they make maximum dollars out of all their historical advantages.

We are two very different clubs, and most people agree that both bring something important to the AFL and it's a better competition with both of us. It's great that your President agrees, and just a shame - although I guess understandable - that he sometimes feels the need to embellish the truth to paint the Pies in a better light. He doesn't need to, he just gets carried away with the Messiah complex on accasion. And he doesn't need to get bagged, just shown up when he goes over the line.

 

[Zeke]

i'll tell you one thing, i'll go for the roos and doggies any day before i even start barracking for collingwood or essendon in a footy match

Good, now that's settled. You've told us all one thing. You need never tell us anything else, ever.

CYA!

 

[Z_K]

We may not have worked harder, but we must have worked smarter. The proof is in the pudding. Bad administration has crippled your club.

Right. I am doing a morgoth here.

Greg Miller was a peanut. As a CEO, he made a great footy manager. He backed the wrong horse more than once on the back of 90's success and lost. We did not capitilise as we should have folliwing the 90's IMO.

But, there were other things we did very well as a footy club. Bottim line, it was not as good as it could have been but that is by our standards, not the comps. No boardroom shake ups I can remember. No real trouble save the Carey thing.

If you can't see that it requires more hard work, smarter management to increase our base than it does yours then you are not fair dinkum, lying or dumb.

Morgoth is a little disenchanted, and understandably so

Shouldn't he be? Shouldn't any Pie fan with their head screwed on be more than a little p1ssed off with certain aspects of the footy club?

Being a good side gets you real respect. Every Collingwood supporter craves it and you just don't have it ATM. You are of interest to most due to profile and sheer number of supporters.

But you do not have respect.

And you know it.

 

[Fred]

morgoth is probably the only realistic magpie poster on big footy, or at leat fred says the rest of the sensible pies are staying away

There are a few others, but they haven't appeared in this thread.

 

[hotpie]

It looks like, with one exception, the sheep are leading the defence.

The sensible pies are staying right away.

Cheers

 

[Fred]

Cheers

See the post above yours.

 

[MarkT]

But you do not have respect.

And you know it.

Correct. And the time to do something about it is overdue.

Your comments re North are correct too. I have always said that armed with the player of the era, the Shinboner of the century and assorted guys like Stevens, Martyn, Longmire, Schwass etc playing footy that everyone admired with bankable spirit you should have achieved more on and off the field. A couple of failed prelims took care of the on. A negative, introverted and wary coach along with a conservative outlook board took care of the off. Nevertheless 2 flags is 2 flags and that's 1 more than Collingwood in that decade.

The past is the past but you can still reap a harvest. The North Board tries hard without doubt but they still lack flair. Aylett’s first stint was full of flair and daring. His second stint was a mistake IMO. Heard him on SEN this morning as I was driving to work. It started with "hang on, um, who am I talking to?" "Kevin Bartlett".

Anyway, it is for North members to say who runs their club not me. Aylett won’t be there much longer. The new regime has to be that though in my opinion.

 

[bobneil130]

Eventually you have to win something.

Very funny coming from a North supporter sorry champ can you remind us all of you pathetic history.

Hang on lets call the AFL and cry waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa we need money waaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa we have no supporters waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa our greatest player shags other players wifes waaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Diego]

The only way things change at Collingwood is via a crisis. The only flag we have one win most people's life time is after we nearly went broke and had no other option than to take a long term approach, get kids and focus solely on footy (we could not afford anything else).

Today we have all the money in the AFL world but can't win flags (again). We are a big charity giver, we help other clubs (no mention of the fact that is suits us hey Eddie!) and spin ******** about stuff that does not matter.

Until Collingwood stops worrying about other clubs and outside activities we will be doomed to fail. I do not care about whether the Roos get money from the AFL, nothing to do with my club. What I care about is winning flags which is the only thing that matters in the AFL world (if I want $$$ I can go invest in the stock market).

As for the jumper I do not want to wear another design but if every other club is, I cannot see why we are bigger than the others. We have sold every other tradition to suit us, so whats the difference.

Get used to Eddie guys it will be a long, long time before the Pie membership base wakes up.

Collingwood supporters read.

If only the majority of Collingwood freaks were like this....

 

[ARDENSTREETforever]

Enter: Graham Duff.
Re-Instate North Melbourne name.

 

[morgoth]

I have worked for the Yanks in major financial institutions and I have seen corporate reviews a number of time.

In 95% of cases the outcome is known before the review commences and it is just a way to justify change. Also in most cases the head honchos are immune and it is the people in the middle who get screwed, when in reality they do not call the shots and have no real say over the direction of the organisation.

End result is a few people get booted who never caused the problems in the first place, those who remain are disgruntled cos the blokes responsible are still their (sometimes with even more power) and new people are brought in on more money.

Eddie fills the role of the PR man well, selling a story that is in all likelihood bull ********. Give him a Yank accent and I would have flash backs.

That is why I am down on the Pies, cos I have seen it all before.

 

[romanwfw]

Collingwood supporters read.

If only the majority of Collingwood freaks were like this....

he's definitely the black sheep of the family. all the others ones just go "BAAA!"

 

[Z_K]

Correct. And the time to do something about it is overdue.

Is Eddie capable of doing the right things in your opinion. Do you remove a bloke so good at part of his job, without giving him the chance to undertake the 'restructure' and live or die by it's success? Part of me is wary of doubting him, part of me says he is full of sh1t and spinning the same rubbish that he knows will be swallowed by most.

Your comments re North are correct too. I have always said that armed with the player of the era, the Shinboner of the century and assorted guys like Stevens, Martyn, Longmire, Schwass etc playing footy that everyone admired with bankable spirit you should have achieved more on and off the field

On the field, we should have won another flag with the core squad and the various blokes that came in and out IMO. Whether that is due to players, coaching or bad luck I dunno.

Off the field we stuffed around. Miller and the board tried to make the big play and failed. In '98 our attendances were massive (relatively of course). We were the glamour side. Carey was at his peak, both playing wise and his profile, we played awesome footy and people turned out to watch. In the next 12 months we had changed our name and played games in Sydney as part of that debarcle. The timing was just flat out stupid.

The past is the past but you can still reap a harvest. The North Board tries hard without doubt but they still lack flair. Aylett’s first stint was full of flair and daring. His second stint was a mistake IMO. Heard him on SEN this morning as I was driving to work. It started with "hang on, um, who am I talking to?" "Kevin Bartlett".

I know for a fact AA was responsible for closing two major sponsorships. One through contacts, one through selling the merits. I suppose his worth can be measured by the appointment of a good coach, the maintenance of a good footy department, improved financial state and record memberships each year. These are big things for North considering the lack of success during that time. He is not a prolific media performer, and truth be told, when he does do it he doesn't exactly impress the pants off anyone.

Ideally, we want a president who does both (behind the scenes and out front) equally well. However, if given the choice, I would take backroom success over flashy corporate ******** and photos in the paper every time.

Anyway, it is for North members to say who runs their club not me. Aylett won’t be there much longer. The new regime has to be that though in my opinion.

Graham Duff is basically in job from all reports.

All I know about him is he ran the VRC and in his first interview, he said he wanted us to go back to being called North Melbourne and said he would tell Carlton to p1ss off re the move to Optus.

 

[MarkT]

Is Eddie capable of doing the right things in your opinion.

A year ago I would have said yes. Now I am just scared. The AGM can’t come fast enough for me.

It’s only my opinion but I can’t see how we can go forward with Malthouse. He can coach a good list and get performance from good players but after 6 years he has his list and he can’t get results with it. He has therefore failed. I don’t see how you can have an all encompassing review of the football department and be talking about EXTENDING the coach’s contract. Frankly he wouldn’t have survived the first Freo debacle if it were up to me.

Do you remove a bloke so good at part of his job, without giving him the chance to undertake the 'restructure' and live or die by it's success? Part of me is wary of doubting him, part of me says he is full of sh1t and spinning the same rubbish that he knows will be swallowed by most.

I need to be careful at this point. I really don’t know. If the president can’t sack a failed coach can he be president of a football club? The question is d you give him the chance to prove he is right? There is risk. He has great skills elsewhere which have done wonders for the club. The first step is to ask questions and get answers. Then you make decisions.

In the next 12 months we had changed our name and played games in Sydney as part of that debarcle. The timing was just flat out stupid.

I always said that was a mistake. There is no room for a “new” team in this market and I don’t think there is room for a split market team anywhere. Canberra is a failure. Just get the F. out of there.

I know for a fact AA was responsible for closing two major sponsorships. One through contacts, one through selling the merits.

Fair enough. Is 2 more or less than someone else? Hard to say. There is more to it than that.

I suppose his worth can be measured by the appointment of a good coach, the maintenance of a good footy department, improved financial state and record memberships each year. These are big things for North considering the lack of success during that time. He is not a prolific media performer, and truth be told, when he does do it he doesn't exactly impress the pants off anyone.

Ideally, we want a president who does both (behind the scenes and out front) equally well. However, if given the choice, I would take backroom success over flashy corporate ******** and photos in the paper every time.

I don’t want to upset North fans but I don’t like Aylett, what he’s done in the past to my club, the VFL and football and it irks me when he complains about the impact of what he did on his club. That aside he is too old.

His first stint at North was fantastic for the club at the time and but for him who knows where North would be now. I suspect we might still have Fitzroy. Then again but for his direction at VFL level we probably would still have Fitzroy but that another set or long winded arguments. That was then. He can’t drive a football club forward any more. I don’t know if he can actually drive any more.


Anyway, he not relevant any more and now that Carey's not there I can barrack for North this September. Well as much as I can barrack for something not Collingwood anyway.

Graham Duff is basically in job from all reports.

As in the beer? Cool!

 

[MarkT]

That is why I am down on the Pies, cos I have seen it all before.

What are YOU going to do about it?

 

[morgoth]

Well if there is an organised oppostion at the AGM this year I will participate, other than that I have no choice but to bide my time and wait for a viable alternative to present itself that I can get behind.

And Mark, with your background you know exaclty what I am talking about re 'reviews'.

 

[Z_K]

A year ago I would have said yes. Now I am just scared. The AGM can’t come fast enough for me.

Will it register though? Will anything you raise be answered without a patronising tone?

It’s only my opinion but I can’t see how we can go forward with Malthouse. He can coach a good list and get performance from good players but after 6 years he has his list and he can’t get results with it. He has therefore failed. I don’t see how you can have an all encompassing review of the football department and be talking about EXTENDING the coach’s contract. Frankly he wouldn’t have survived the first Freo debacle if it were up to me.
I need to be careful at this point. I really don’t know. If the president can’t sack a failed coach can he be president of a football club? The question is d you give him the chance to prove he is right? There is risk. He has great skills elsewhere which have done wonders for the club. The first step is to ask questions and get answers. Then you make decisions.

Agree with all that. Very, very dicey situation. If not done right, we are talking years and years of recovery.

I always said that was a mistake. There is no room for a “new” team in this market and I don’t think there is room for a split market team anywhere. Canberra is a failure. Just get the F. out of there.

Disagree. I think the Canberra deal is a necessary evil. We make a sh1tload from the ACT government. It puts us on side with the AFL who see us as a viable option to push a little into that market. We win there. In a perfect world it would not be required, but I think it is at this stage.

Fair enough. Is 2 more or less than someone else? Hard to say. There is more to it than that.

Dunno. He has strengths. He has weaknesses. Either way, he won't be in the job next year and I reckon he can look back on the past few years and be pretty happy with where we are post Pagan and Carey all while fielding a side that was only ok in that time.

I don’t want to upset North fans but I don’t like Aylett, what he’s done in the past to my club, the VFL and football and it irks me when he complains about the impact of what he did on his club. That aside he is too old.

I am 23, so all I know of Aylett is the past 3 years, the fact he was AFL boss and the fact that he was a gun footballer.

Anyway, he not relevant any more and now that Carey's not there I can barrack for North this September. Well as much as I can barrack for something not Collingwood anyway.

We'll have to change that. No use being liked.

 

[Z_K]

In 95% of cases the outcome is known before the review commences and it is just a way to justify change. Also in most cases the head honchos are immune and it is the people in the middle who get screwed, when in reality they do not call the shots and have no real say over the direction of the organisation.

We went through one 3 months ago. Laughable. Alot of people paid alot of money to shuffle a few around and give the arse to middle management who did nothing anyway. Sat in a purpose built office for 6 months and looked serious. I actually laughed all the way through their presentation.

End result is a few people get booted who never caused the problems in the first place, those who remain are disgruntled cos the blokes responsible are still their (sometimes with even more power) and new people are brought in on more money.

Do you work here? I didn't know it was this universal. Scary.

Eddie fills the role of the PR man well, selling a story that is in all likelihood bull ********. Give him a Yank accent and I would have flash backs.

Christ he is good at it though. Howard can do the same. You fundamentally disagree with his spiel, yet through some bizzare hypnosis you find yourself nodding in agreement.

That is why I am down on the Pies, cos I have seen it all before.

Saddest thing is, your feelings about your footy club rest in hands you cannot trust completely.

As a supporter of a club that could be wiped from existence within the hour, welcome to my world

 

[Gasometer]

Very funny coming from a North supporter sorry champ can you remind us all of you pathetic history.

It goes back longer than 1991.

Gaso

 

[VANDA]

There are a few others, but they haven't appeared in this thread.

Macpie????

 

[MarkT]

Macpie????

You are macpie! Well Essendon's version anyway.

 

[MarkT]

Well if there is an organised oppostion at the AGM this year I will participate, other than that I have no choice but to bide my time and wait for a viable alternative to present itself that I can get behind.

And Mark, with your background you know exaclty what I am talking about re 'reviews'.

I think I have said my pice on the review. Ultimately the proof will be in the eating. Forget organised anything. You have a voice. Use it.

Put up or shut time for Collingwood supporters!

 

[VANDA]

You are macpie! Well Essendon's version anyway.

now that hurts MarkT...............

i feel so dirty.

 

[MarkT]

Will it register though? Will anything you raise be answered without a patronising tone?

I hope so. If not I think it will be pretty damaging. Look, I'm not riding in with a shotgun but I have questions and I'm not scared to offend. I actually hope there are a truck load of people with hard questions but if not I have a few.