Kangaroos to be a force in 2015?

[tazaa]

Yep last year you finished fourth scraping in against two sides in the finals who weren't travelling well, but managed to slip into 4th by avoiding the obvious best 4 sides in Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo & Port - when we ran into one of those 4 best sides of 2014 we got absolutely embarassed the likes of which we haven't seen in a Prelim since... funnily enough the last time North made a Prelim in 2007...

Look its lovely that you think North is a genuine top 4 side and that you think your best is better than Sydneys (and all the other top sides), but maybe you should have encouraged your players to play their best footy in last years Prelim - you were on a roll and at full strength after all

See again, your opinion. How were Essendon and Geelong not travelling well?
Hawthorn, Freo and Port failed to beat us last year. Essendon and Geelong owned us in the H&A when we played. We rectified that in September.
2007 was 7 years ago? It has no bearing whatsoever on what happened in 2014.
I will send on your words of encouragement to the players (Y)

 

[dumb]

of course, carlton '95 got cleaned up in consecutive weeks by sydney and st kilda, losing by the sum total of 120+ points. though, this was after already winning 7 straight up to that point. in isolation this loss looks bad but as the year goes on it could just be a blip.

 

[Thats Wright]

If North don't have a big year in 2015/16 (which IMO they wont) they will have invested heavily for no return. They really need to get more young talent coming through.

I think everyone knows that is true to a large extent except Brad Scott and the players. Just listened to the captains after match interview and have lost faith in all things North Melbourne.

The only thing Scott can do to instill some heart and destiny in this side is drop senior players and create an air of unspoken demands of intensity and desire.

Unfortunately, Scott coaches like an assistant coach that's been handed the reigns while the real coach is absent. He has completely failed to instill any passion, desire or given the players any idea why they are playing the game or what it takes.

The Leadership group at North is fragile to say the least. Gibson shouldn't even be playing, just not good enough for modern football, McMillian is a fringe player without an elite attribute, Petrie is a man child and Swallow is a choir boy with the passion of a bowls player.

Seeing the club is stuck with Scott, Brayshaw should mention to him the whole purpose is to win a premiership. As good as it has been having Scott appointed to mouth off in a consumable fashion and make the team competitive, those days are gone.

Perhaps Scott has been too busy at home since he got married and had a child, but most coaches that have success already have their private lives sorted and can relay the important father figure role that every successful coach has. Perhaps Scott has an "excuse" for going through the motions in the off season, but for such an amateur coach he has a very long way to go.

With free agency available to the better clubs, its not too late to reshuffle the leadership group or even flick Scott.

There are many fragile players in the senior group at North, the worry is the recruiters are following this track and the younger players will have any fragility cemented by a coach so far out of touch he's sabotaging the side through letting the players suckle at his teet rather than turn them into Premiership players. He coaches like a woman in a mans game, and the side crumbles like a pack of girls when the going gets tough.

 

[MarkT2]

Interesting post That's Wright.

I think this year has to play out and then it's serious decision time. decisions on Scott and the probability of a short term flag v take a step back and invest heavily in the draft. The problem is most of the older guys don't have much currency. Boomer has been a great player but you can't trade players of his standing without damaging the club and he wouldn't get much anyway - that assuming he even plays in 2016. A few others are too old for real currency at the trade table.

 

[MightyHawks]

See again, your opinion. How were Essendon and Geelong not travelling well?
Hawthorn, Freo and Port failed to beat us last year. Essendon and Geelong owned us in the H&A when we played. We rectified that in September.
2007 was 7 years ago? It has no bearing whatsoever on what happened in 2014.
I will send on your words of encouragement to the players (Y)

Look if you can't watch the Port/Freo and North/Cats finals last year and identify that Port & Freo were better than North then there's not much hope for you

It was a commonly held view in the lead up to the Prelims that North sorry Port were going to present a real challenge for Hawthorn in the Prelim.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I think at this point I've felt that all the talk of North being a top 4 team in 2015 is wrong. I do think they'll make the eight though. I'm happy for them to prove me wrong.

 

[billy fragos]

North over achieved last year which ultimately could end them, they made a prelim (by defeating essendon and geelong, hardly impressive) and therefore where doubed as top 4 when in reality they were never even close.

Their Midfield can't run, their defence can't handle teams with 2/3 quality talls and don't even get me started on north's forward line.

Although this is all taken from one game so always happy too be proven wrong.

 

[tazaa]

Look if you can't watch the Port/Freo and North/Cats finals last year and identify that Port & Freo were better than North then there's not much hope for you

It was a commonly held view in the lead up to the Prelims that North sorry Port were going to present a real challenge for Hawthorn in the Prelim.

No, your right. North playing Hawthorn at the G for the prelim, we were never going to challenge. It didnt happen but we can still assume.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The writing is on the wall if they have to go out and get a 32 year old who plays 1 good game in 8 in Jarrad Waite. i rate them but I have them coming 6-8.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

I recently learned that the club re-signed Macmillan through to the end of 2017. Lol.

The team could still do a Geelong 2007, drop a few more over the next few weeks, then dominate the comp for the rest of the season. Wouldn't surprise me.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the team bombed out and missed finals. Lose Cunnington or Goldstein for long periods this year and the team is in strife.

But Brad Scott sure does speak well on Foxtel.

 

[Hird Is Scum]

Unfortunately, Scott coaches like an assistant coach that's been handed the reigns while the real coach is absent. He has completely failed to instill any passion, desire or given the players any idea why they are playing the game or what it takes.

A perfect description of how he coaches, the complete opposite of the Scott brothers in their playing days.

 

[sonnywalters]

Is it just me or have the Kangaroos now become a comedy act and a parody of themselves?
Every 4-6 weeks we have the same 'bloodletting' event. This has been happening for years now.
Basically they put in an absolute stinker. Then Brad Scott does a press conference and reels out a series of cliches and acts tough.
They say its 'unacceptable' and that they will have a 'hard session on the track' and there will be some 'tough decisions at the selection table' and 'reputations won't count for anything'.
Then some player (NDS lately but could be anyone) comes out and crap on how they had a really 'honest feedback meeting'.
Wash.
Repeat every 4 weeks.
It really is high comedy.
Its like watching a footy parody show only they don't seem to see the humour.

 

[Jade]

Last year, I stood in a bar with several North and Bomber mates prior to the Essendon v North Elimination Final sinking a few beers and discussing the game.

Fair to say, fans of each club tend to not have warm and fuzzy feelings about the opposition side, however both had a reasonable amount of respect for, and fear of the opposite.

The permutations of the finals meant the winner was likely to face Geelong the week after, and generalising, both sets of fans believed the winner of the EF was likely to beat Geelong as well (which of course as we know was exactly what happened).

Now why is this relevant? Because like it or lump it, Essendon and North found themselves, due to the obvious terminal weakness of Geelong, with an inside track to catapult themselves into the top four.

Essendon have now with this last weekends loss to Sydney, given up significant leads (31+ pts) three games in a row - the North final was smack bang in the middle of that.

Now, for the sake of being clear, I am NOT in some round about way trying to imply or infer that Essendon are a top four side that simply 'let' North win. Simply stating the facts as they are in order to demonstrate that North are roughly equivalent to a 'good' side. The game was close, Essendon does what it does, North powered over the top and won the game. The week after, they knocked over (in highly predictable fashion) Geelong.

Bravo, I certainly know I'd be pretty stoked if it was us that had made the top 4, but it is undeniable that, as has happened several times in the past, North were considerably weaker than the other top four sides.

The problem with making the top four in this fashion, is that it can artificially inflate the prospects of the side in question. North ARE a good side, I still think they are a fair chance to make the top 4 and would be shocked to see them miss the eight.

There are two generalised assumptions I've seen this offseason that have bemused me a bit. One, that Brisbane were immediately top eight threats, and two, that North were the 'next best' possibly just below Port in the flag race.

Reality is, they were one of a few sides that trailed Haw, Syd and Port into 2015. Teams such as Essendon, Adelaide, Fremantle had every reason to feel just as bouyant as North heading into 2015.

So to bottom line, North a good side. Good enough, with a little improvement, to genuinely challenge the top sides, but they have no reason to be MORE hopeful than several other sides in the league.

 

[Thats Wright]

Last year, I stood in a bar with several North and Bomber mates prior to the Essendon v North Elimination Final sinking a few beers and discussing the game.

Fair to say, fans of each club tend to not have warm and fuzzy feelings about the opposition side, however both had a reasonable amount of respect for, and fear of the opposite.

The permutations of the finals meant the winner was likely to face Geelong the week after, and generalising, both sets of fans believed the winner of the EF was likely to beat Geelong as well (which of course as we know was exactly what happened).

Now why is this relevant? Because like it or lump it, Essendon and North found themselves, due to the obvious terminal weakness of Geelong, with an inside track to catapult themselves into the top four.

Essendon have now with this last weekends loss to Sydney, given up significant leads (31+ pts) three games in a row - the North final was smack bang in the middle of that.

Now, for the sake of being clear, I am NOT in some round about way trying to imply or infer that Essendon are a top four side that simply 'let' North win. Simply stating the facts as they are in order to demonstrate that North are roughly equivalent to a 'good' side. The game was close, Essendon does what it does, North powered over the top and won the game. The week after, they knocked over (in highly predictable fashion) Geelong.

Bravo, I certainly know I'd be pretty stoked if it was us that had made the top 4, but it is undeniable that, as has happened several times in the past, North were considerably weaker than the other top four sides.

The problem with making the top four in this fashion, is that it can artificially inflate the prospects of the side in question. North ARE a good side, I still think they are a fair chance to make the top 4 and would be shocked to see them miss the eight.

There are two generalised assumptions I've seen this offseason that have bemused me a bit. One, that Brisbane were immediately top eight threats, and two, that North were the 'next best' possibly just below Port in the flag race.

Reality is, they were one of a few sides that trailed Haw, Syd and Port into 2015. Teams such as Essendon, Adelaide, Fremantle had every reason to feel just as bouyant as North heading into 2015.

So to bottom line, North a good side. Good enough, with a little improvement, to genuinely challenge the top sides, but they have no reason to be MORE hopeful than several other sides in the league.

I think you are confusing essendons reasonably good record against North with actual quality. North could bleat on about Hawthorn not being that good considering they do alright most times against them.

I think the answer to your question lies at Shitihad stadium.

The bombers are chokers obviously. North have been through it. All tenants of Ethiad are rubbish in finals.

The artificial football and tendency towards coaches inventing excuses for poor results, effects all teams there.

Certain types of players perform better at Ethiad than anywhere else. Unfortunately with the bulk of home games there for some, the teams load up on artificial footballers.... North has many.

Malthouse is the perfect coach for Ethiad, Scott not far off in terms of spinning softness and rebounding from utter failure.

Good luck with having success as an Ethiad tenant. Your club will find a way to suit the artificial mould and you'd need a hell of a coach to avoid your club becoming as pea hearted as every tenant.

 

[HTPunter]

We finished on the same number of wins as Port Adelaide. To say we were "nowhere near" top 4 is wrong.

We were a fair way off top 2, that's for sure.

 

[HTPunter]

Good enough to replace Harvey, Wells, Petrie, Dal Santo, Firrito and Waite?

Who we are constantly told are shit?

I guess so.

 

[Jade]

I think you are confusing essendons reasonably good record against North with actual quality. North could bleat on about Hawthorn not being that good considering they do alright most times against them.

Nah I wasn't. The implication I was making was that Essendon and North were 'roughly' equivalent in ability come the end of 2014 despite one finishing up in week 1 of the finals and the other making a prelim. Thats all.

The bombers are chokers obviously. North have been through it. All tenants of Ethiad are rubbish in finals.

Dunno about chokers, just woefully up and down. We're just as likely to start a game horribly and come home with a head of steam - very frustrating.

The artificial football and tendency towards coaches inventing excuses for poor results, effects all teams there.

Certain types of players perform better at Ethiad than anywhere else. Unfortunately with the bulk of home games there for some, the teams load up on artificial footballers.... North has many.

Malthouse is the perfect coach for Ethiad, Scott not far off in terms of spinning softness and rebounding from utter failure.

Good luck with having success as an Ethiad tenant. Your club will find a way to suit the artificial mould and you'd need a hell of a coach to avoid your club becoming as pea hearted as every tenant.

I don't agree with your suggestion that Etihad is the cause of a 'poor' team'. Just had a brief look, Essendons record at the MCG is much a muchness with Etihad over the last decade or so. In that time St Kilda, Dogs have put out some VERY good sides (just unfortunate neither won a flag).

 

[Jade]

We finished on the same number of wins as Port Adelaide. To say we were "nowhere near" top 4 is wrong.

We were a fair way off top 2, that's for sure.

You made top 4. How can anyone say you were nowhere near it?

 

[HTPunter]

You made top 4. How can anyone say you were nowhere near it?

And equal 3rd most wins for the season.

People can argue the merits of whether we were a true top 4 team or whatever, but we were at a minimum very close

 

[Jade]

And equal 3rd most wins for the season.

People can argue the merits of whether we were a true top 4 team or whatever, but we were at a minimum very close

You can't argue a fact. You ARE a top 4 side from 2014.

Now you can argue the circumstances that saw you get there, or form a view as to whether you can do it again, but a fact is a fact is a fact.

 

[master bate]

You made top 4. How can anyone say you were nowhere near it?

I'll say it.

Top 4 in my mind isn't as simple as just the order at the end of the season of teams who make the prelim of better. It's now a bearing on sides who are legitimate chances of winning the premiership. It's an abstract concept. North didn't finish the home and away season in top 4, that's a very simple way to classify them as not top 4.

In my opinion the true top 4 last year were Hawthorn, Sydney, Port and Freo. I believe that Geelong winning an inordinate amount of close games and Port having a very flat patch mid year threw the ladder out of whack.

If you look at the big games in the finals series they were Hawthorn getting pushed by Port, Sydney challenged to a degree by Freo and Port beating Freo.

The other side of the draw featured Hawthorn crushing Geel, North knocking out a very flat Geelong in a game that still got close despite them not having a ruckman and then Sydney crushing North. Even the elimination finals where Port destroyed Richmond compared to North sneaking home against the up and down Essendon points to a gap.

North were on a level with Ess and Geel and not on the same level as Port, Freo, Sydney or Hawthorn.

 

[Jade]

North were on a level with Ess and Geel and not on the same level as Port, Freo, Sydney or Hawthorn.

Some valid points you make. I suppose my issue with is it is often people want to say they 'aren't top 4' simply to denigrate their achievements. North had a sensational year.

As for Geelong, BOTH North and Essendon are better sides IMO.

 

[Thats Wright]

I don't agree with your suggestion that Etihad is the cause of a 'poor' team'. Just had a brief look, Essendons record at the MCG is much a muchness with Etihad over the last decade or so. In that time St Kilda, Dogs have put out some VERY good sides (just unfortunate neither won a flag).

Suggesting what St kilda and the Dogs have achieved over the last 15 years is in anyway more than pathetic is clutching at straws.

North, Essendon and Carlton all have the soft underbelly of an Ethiad tenant. The saints are decades away now and the Bulldogs are cursed with injury as usual.

Artificial stadium. Artificial clubs.

 

[Jade]

Suggesting what St kilda and the Dogs have achieved over the last 15 years is in anyway more than pathetic is clutching at straws.

The Dogs made several prelims, and the Saints played in two GFs (three if you count a replay). Claiming they weren't good sides because they didn't actually win a flag is obtuse, and actually bordering on idiotic.

North, Essendon and Carlton all have the soft underbelly of an Ethiad tenant. The saints are decades away now and the Bulldogs are cursed with injury as usual.

Artificial stadium. Artificial clubs.

No, North, Essendon and Carlton have the soft underbellies of not having been terribly good sides for a while.

Essendon in fact, has won a flag as a tenant of Etihad.

Your point seems to have essentially no basis in fact and is instead an opinion (and a very poorly reasoned one at that).

 

[go you pups]

North arguably have the most B graders out of everyone in the league. I would say their only A graders are Goldstein, Boomer and Thomas at the moment with Thompson and Dal Santo being former A graders but are capable of raising their game again and Cunnington is their best B grader.

Getting the most out of the C graders and B graders will improve them but it needs to happen now.