Kanga's are going backwards ???

[palisades]

1. Last year in a pre-season game we belted the Saints, by the end of the year they beat us in a close one and this year we didn't get near them both times.

2. Last year we drew with the Brisbane Lions early in the year, last Saturday night we were humiliated by them.

3. Last round last year we belted the Carlton Blues, this year we fell in against them the first time then lost embarrassingly too them the second.

We haven't gone anywhere relative to these teams, we have stalled, and our prospects are probably no better for next year.

Following Petries poor year and Watt's being largely ineffective we do not have a gun key position player to take the club forward over the next 5 years.

I'm disappointed to say it but I really think we are looking at even leaner times ahead.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

We were belted by the Crows at the start of last year, and we belted them. We were belted by Port last year, and this year we belted them. We lost to Hawthorn last year, this year we beat them well both times. We only just beat the Tigers last year, we belted them this time around. We beat Freo at Subi this year, last year they romped us over there.

It's easy to select a few results to support a theory, but the bottom line is all teams change and go forward and backwards, and often it's just a case of one team playing better on the day, regardless of overall quality. Were Sydney a better team than Carlton 1995 just because they beat them? Sydney thrashed us by 10 goals at the MCG in 1996.

 

[palisades]

I'm not talking about winning or losing the odd match, i'm trying to construct some trends which point to some worrying times ahead.

Crows, Hawthorn and the Tiges all had dismal years so blind freddy would expect us expect us to win those and win those well - regardless we lost very averagely against the crows late in the year.

The Port game was a terrific effort and obviously we thrashed them on the day, but on the balance of their total years performance relative to ours we haven't made any inroads towards them.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

So the fact that Sansbury, Grima, Chad Jones and Callum Urch all made debuts this season, Hale started to establish himself at this level before injury, and Wells and Harris became crucial players, means nothing? Motlop's emergence was coincedental? Grabbing a top five player with a third round pick won't help us move forward?

When you consider Harvey and Grant had very average years, I don't think it's fair to say we're moving backwards.

 

[utility]

2002: 12-0-11
2003: 11-1-10
2004: 10-0-12

That is backwards.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

2002: 12-0-11
2003: 11-1-10
2004: 10-0-12

That is backwards.

I suppose the fact that we've gotten a new (and previously untested coach) and are currently undergoing a transition of the playing list on the back of a period of dominance.

All the teams up the top now have been on the bottom for periods. I'm thankful we're staying competitive while the team changes hands.

 

[Z_K]

2002: 12-0-11
2003: 11-1-10
2004: 10-0-12

That is backwards.

Just about had enough of people making massive calls on numbers alone.

We were a far better side in 2004 than we were in 2003. People are starting to mimick the major flaw in the foty media, ie taking the the last few games from a team and running with it, making huge calls about it's future.

Bottom line is, we were one poor effort from a crap side (Bulldog's X 2, Carlton, Adelaide etc etc) away from playing this week. Sure, that is our fault but we knoe we are better than some sides in the 8 and those who just missed out.

We have changed the list around, we have drafted well, we have changed the way we have played and we have done it with a new coach and paying 92% of the salary cap.

I think everyone should look through Geelong's last 5 years. Very closely. Thompson was being destroyed in the media. Their fans wanted his head. They struggled, got belted etc etc. Geelong stuck it out, saw senior players leave, turned the list over, placed their faith in the draft and low and behold, a top 4 finish through natural progression.

5 years VS 2 years.

Wake up.

 

[utility]

When JYD took over he said we will have to take a few steps back before we move forward. That is the case. We have taken steps backwards BUT we are moving in the right direction.

 

[CoastBhoy]

2002: 12-0-11
2003: 11-1-10
2004: 10-0-12

That is backwards.

2002

playerslost

W.Carey
B.Pickett
S.Cochrane
M.Martyn
J.Blakey
A.Lange
R.Crowe

players gained

H.Mc Intosh
K.Shore
J.Perry
C.Urch
D.Wells
B.Grima
L.Brown

2003

players lost

D.Smith
D.Teague
D.Morrell
M.Burton
D.Bourke
J.Mc Cartney
S.Motlop
C.Alleway

players gained

D.Trotter
Chad Jones
B.Le Cras
E.Sansbury
S.Harvey
C.Mc Kernan
J.Clayton
M.Firrito

2004

players lost
A.Stevens
?

players gained
J.Smith
?

That should explain it !!!!!!

 

[myboywellsy]

kangas have moved forward in many areas and have stagnated in others.

Laidley's inability to have a plan b in place is something that has cost us dearly in games against bulldogs 1st time, carlton and adelaide but on the whole i believe he is developing the younger players with aplomb. The way he has sheltered wells and harris has enabled them to become the dominant players they are for us today. makepeace and rawlings are now top class players and getting the attention they deserve.

if you had said at the beginning of the year that harvey, petrie, grant, jones (got better), and sinclair were going to have 'average years' (grant was ok but still not good enough without ball in hand and missed many golden opportunities including one against melbourne when we were flying) we'd ahve thought finishing 10th was not something we would have be capable of. But alas, we have developed players and with the debuts of a few more youngsters this year... we are heading, i beleive in the right direction. jones, sansbury, urch made debuts this year... would like to see perry, shore, trotter, big mac and watson play next year and fingers crossed that smith is as good as the raps on him. with improvement still to come from many of our players ie wells/motlop/harris all have potential to improve further and become all australian and petrie getting back to some sort of form... who knows? we ahve been blessed over the last 11 years... lets not forget that. And to be back up there in contention for the finals and lets be honest even with the lack of form shown by our senior players this year to be 1 game out of the 8 and 3 games behind a "gun" (i still think we could ahve beaten them in the finals) team like Geelong. i think augurs well for future years... as long as we trade well this and next year. I beleive the club should be offering big and i mean HUGE money (1.5mil for 3 years) to the following players:


J. Brown...4 flags what more can u achieve at 1 club
Justin Kosi.... no spot for him at saints wants to be a star in his own right. sick of being in riewolts shadow?????
Jared Rivers....who wants to play for the dees??
Brendon Lade ... when port get knocked out again.


each could possibly leave



Sansbury Perry Makepeace

Trotter brown Colbert

Rawlings Grima Sinclair

CH Jones Petrie Motlop

Harvey McIntosh Watson

Hale Wells Harris

bench: Simpson, Grant, Co. Jones, Shore


never to play again: harding (although he's good), baird, clayton x2, king (unfortunately), Stevens M (unless he can make more of an impact), Watt ( just to reactive), Corey MAC (doesn't hold enough contested marks in F50)
Sav after receiving soft tissue injury in pre season, same for Arch... although if arch is fit he naturally would start.

 

[Roobunny]

kangas have moved forward in many areas and have stagnated in others.




each could possibly leave



Sansbury Perry Makepeace

Trotter brown Colbert

Rawlings Grima Sinclair

CH Jones Petrie Motlop

Harvey McIntosh Watson

Hale Wells Harris

bench: Simpson, Grant, Co. Jones, Shore.

Er Simpson off the bench? Why?

never to play again:
Sav after receiving soft tissue injury in pre season, same for Arch... although if arch is fit he naturally would start.

Huh? What a crazy thing to say, that we'll never play Sav (who's been v. good for us this year) because of a soft tissue injury that hasn't happened?

 

[Angus1]

Well I think it is pretty obvious that we are going backwards but that has to be expected with the inclusion of so many young players and a new coach that has a plan that involves trying to get players to do things that perhaps they aren't capable of. It's not all gloom and doom however but it does look like this is going to be a long term process which could take another 3 or 4 years before we have a real crack. The inclusion of some good quality trades could speed this up however and that does seem likely to happen.

As it stands Laidley really does struggle to find replacements when we get either injured players or suspensions. The depth just isn't there. So he is forced to bring in players such as Baird and Harding for example who clearly just aren't up to AFL standard. The good news is that he has drafted over the past few years and hopefully some of those kids will make some type of impact in the future. Chad Jones for example is a long way from it at the moment but in a couple of years could be a fullforward. I wont go through the list as this has been done to death but it does show that some of the young guys may make it. With the inclusion of a top onballer and a top fullback we could fast track our progress.

So whilst we do look a million miles away at the moment there is a brief glimmer of hope even if it is 3 or 4 years away.

 

[myboywellsy]

Mate if it were up to me Sav would be playing next year and the year after but the likelihood of 2 injury free pre seasons in succession is unlikely at best... and as such we should be planning for it.
same for arch... he barely could raise a whimper this year and he has been our most inspirational player for over a decade. hands aren't nearly as clean as they once were...


angus you are spot on about full back.... watt is no good there, however y was he not played elsewhere, especially when we had no targets up forward... at least he's quick... maybe we could turn him into a 6'3 wingman like riewoldt.


as for simpson on the bench.... i dunno, i love his hit outs, his overhead marking, his attack on the ball... but he lets himself and the team down far too often with his erratic (at best) disposal. He could possibly be turned into a full forward if he could kick as his marking is exceptional. i would be attempting to offload grant/harvey if suitable trade came up.... frontrunners, don't need them.

 

[Angus1]

Mate if it were up to me Sav would be playing next year and the year after but the likelihood of 2 injury free pre seasons in succession is unlikely at best... and as such we should be planning for it.
same for arch... he barely could raise a whimper this year and he has been our most inspirational player for over a decade. hands aren't nearly as clean as they once were....

We need both of them simply because we dont have ready replacements. It's not an ideal situation but it has to be this way. We can't just throw a young kid into fullforward. As for Arch we really struggle down back for stoppers. We run out of defense ok but we don't have stoppers of Cobert and Archers ability. We will develop some this year I'm sure but lets guide them in with a few games here and there first.

angus you are spot on about full back.... watt is no good there, however y was he not played elsewhere, especially when we had no targets up forward... at least he's quick... maybe we could turn him into a 6'3 wingman like riewoldt..

Yes I agree he should have been tried elsewhere. Have no idea why Laidley would experiment with him a bit and see if he can play forward or like you say try him on a wing. We just don't know if he can play football yet because laidley didn't try anything new with him.

as for simpson on the bench.... i dunno, i love his hit outs, his overhead marking, his attack on the ball... but he lets himself and the team down far too often with his erratic (at best) disposal. He could possibly be turned into a full forward if he could kick as his marking is exceptional. i would be attempting to offload grant/harvey if suitable trade came up.... frontrunners, don't need them.

Well that is just plain silly. I wouldn't want Simpson any where near the forward line and there is nothing better then watching Wells get on the end of a chain of hanballs or a pass then run towards the forward 50 and offload a scorching pass onto motlop's chest. Every team needs frontrunners just not too many of them. I don't want to see Wells on the bottom of too many packs. That would be a waste.

One point about Simpson is I don't think Laidley could have used him any worse. Why on earth you want Simpson playing forward and out wide waiting for the ball then deliver to the forwards is just beyond reason. Simpson's great strengths are his clearances, marking under pressure and being able to play close to an opponent. His strength is not kicking long passes to forwards lace out. It never will be, he just isn't a good kick. Simmo doesn't get tagged because every coach knows that he wont hurt you with his kicking. He should be used as a run with player or an in and under the pack player. He does both very well and he will still rack up possesions but his emphasis should be on clearing with handballs to a running Wells and not a mongrel punt to Rocca's feet.