Less than a month out , who's our XI for Brisbane

[bird_man]

I was referring to Warners substandard Ashes performance etc actually. Bailey played 8. 4 at the start of the season when he'd just flown back from Australian T20 and ODI duty, was interrupted by the BBL, ODI and T20I games and then played another 4 two months after he had played his last one. It wasn't like he was not playing cricket at all, he was playing a lot of cricket (and in good form in the ODI and T20 formats), its clearly hard to adjust from those two back to Shield cricket. As I said, those who played in those two formats also struggled in Shield/Test cricket. David Warner, Aaron Finch, Mitchells Starc and Johnson, Matthew Wade... etc

In his first 4 games of the season Bailey had scores of 66, 32, 19, 20, 11, 21. Average of 28, so as the season wore on, he got worse (as thats when all the format changing happened). In his first two matches of the season he only batted twice in four innings. Not to mention three of those games were at Hobart, the worst place for batsmen all of last year.

That's a piss poor excuse. If he can't make runs in Shield because he was chopping and changing then how is he going to come back from a ODI tournament and make runs at test level? That's cricket these days, you need to adjust. By the way, last summer Matthew Wade averaged 55 in Shield cricket and scored a test hundred so I'm not sure where you pulled that from. He deserves to bat a 6 before a bloke that averaged 18.

 

[DangerSloane]

I'd rather we play every ball on its merits.

When was the last time a premeditated attack on the spinners worked well for Australia?

Well it worked for years and since the Hayden/Gilchrist era we havent really done it.
I dont say premeditated attack as in charge every ball, I just mean they have to attack him and look to hit him early.
Watch Swan if he gets tonked early, he tries a lot, throws it up more, drops more short. It really throws off his rhythm

 

[Black Diamond]

Well it worked for years and since the Hayden/Gilchrist era we havent really done it.
I dont say premeditated attack as in charge every ball, I just mean they have to attack him and look to hit him early.
Watch Swan if he gets tonked early, he tries a lot, throws it up more, drops more short. It really throws off his rhythm

Hayden and Gilchrist retired four and five seasons ago respectively. They were two of the best hitters, in fact best players period who have ever played for Australia. It would be foolish for our current batsmen to try to do what they did.

Our batsmen need to HTFU, play every ball on it's merits and be prepared to get singles if they can't free the arms.

 

[DangerSloane]

Hayden and Gilchrist retired four and five seasons ago respectively. They were two of the best hitters, in fact best players period who have ever played for Australia. It would be foolish for our current batsmen to try to do what they did.

Our batsmen need to HTFU, play every ball on it's merits and be prepared to get singles if they can't free the arms.

You do realise you can play every ball on its merits and still be aggressive right?
Theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Attacking the spinners does a lot. Can force bowling changes, for the captain to bring back a tired quickie or a part timer. It drops his head for the match, and possibly the series if you keep attacking him.

Swan bowls 30% better when you let him have his own way...

 

[Black Diamond]

You do realise you can play every ball on its merits and still be aggressive right?
Theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Attacking the spinners does a lot. Can force bowling changes, for the captain to bring back a tired quickie or a part timer. It drops his head for the match, and possibly the series if you keep attacking him.

Swan bowls 30% better when you let him have his own way...

Our current crop doesn't lack an aggressive intent. They lack resolve, patience and common sense. Your "attack first" ethos has done us much more harm than good in recent years, and we will have next to no chance of winning if we try to strong-arm bowlers out the game.

Good ball = block or leave
Bad ball = get a run, preferably along the ground through a gap

 

[DangerSloane]

Our current crop doesn't lack an aggressive intent. They lack resolve, patience and common sense. Your "attack first" ethos has done us much more harm than good in recent years, and we will have next to no chance of winning if we try to strong-arm bowlers out the game.

Good ball = block or leave
Bad ball = get a run, preferably along the ground through a gap

But we havent been playing 'attack first' for a long time.
We keep getting out tentatively dangling outside off stump, you arent seeing a bunch of guys getting out going for shots.

 

[Black Diamond]

But we havent been playing 'attack first' for a long time.
We keep getting out tentatively dangling outside off stump, you arent seeing a bunch of guys getting out going for shots.

They have been getting out doing both.

That dangling rubbish happens when the batsman isn't decisive. You don't remedy that by switching to attack mode which is unsustainable. You remedy it by going back to basics.

 

[DangerSloane]

They have been getting out doing both.

That dangling rubbish happens when the batsman isn't decisive. You don't remedy that by switching to attack mode which is unsustainable. You remedy it by going back to basics.

Against Swan attack is the best form of defence. Just my opinion obviously and I dont mean just try to slog him...but its vital to get on top of him early.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

You do realise you can play every ball on its merits and still be aggressive right?
Theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Attacking the spinners does a lot. Can force bowling changes, for the captain to bring back a tired quickie or a part timer. It drops his head for the match, and possibly the series if you keep attacking him.

Swan bowls 30% better when you let him have his own way...

Yes, this stuff about Swann is spot on. He'll lose his line AND length if he is successfully attacked for even as little time as a couple of overs. He isn't the sort of bowler who can keep his cool for long periods when he's not getting much success - though he's better than he used to be at that.

 

[shotgun_blues]

My XI

- David Warner
- Shaun Marsh
- Shane Watson
- Phil Hughes
- Michael Clarke
- Steve Smith
- Chris Hartley
- Mitchell Johnson
- Peter Siddle
- Ryan Harris
- Nathan Lyon

 

[DangerSloane]

Yes, this stuff about Swann is spot on. He'll lose his line AND length if he is successfully attacked for even as little time as a couple of overs. He isn't the sort of bowler who can keep his cool for long periods when he's not getting much success - though he's better than he used to be at that.

Exactly my point.
Swann will start to fizz it through allowing for more deflections and also more short balls. Plus negating much of the spin.
As you said, it just needs to be a couple of aggressive shots in a short time and he's back under his rock.

 

[DangerSloane]

My XI

- David Warner
- Shaun Marsh
- Shane Watson
- Phil Hughes
- Michael Clarke
- Steve Smith
- Chris Hartley
- Mitchell Johnson
- Peter Siddle
- Ryan Harris
- Nathan Lyon

Strong inhabited state to WK selection ratio.
Agree that he's the best gloveman in the country though. Shouldve at least had a few games over the course.

I think you have to play Rogers though, he's earnt his spot at the top of the order.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

My XI

- David Warner
- Shaun Marsh
- Shane Watson
- Phil Hughes
- Michael Clarke
- Steve Smith
- Chris Hartley
- Mitchell Johnson
- Peter Siddle
- Ryan Harris
- Nathan Lyon

I would be interested in the Marsh reasoning. Without anybody else standing out in FC cricket (yet?), Rogers surely did enough to retain his place. Warner would be more dubtful than Rogers, but in my opinion keeps his spot based on his record in Australia. (Certainly bsaed on form since January there would be no case to retain Davey, but a lack of options means that home record has to be considered.)

 

[shotgun_blues]

Rogers will be an epic fail this summer, wait and see. Marsh gets in on talent alone if he is fit.

Hartley/Paine either/or. Haddin is passed it, he is not test standard. Give someone else a go.

Bailey - please FFS. The guy averaged 18 last year in first class cricket. Note - first class cricket. Not pyjama cricket which no-one gives a shit about the results with no pressure placed upon them.

Johnson - Like the girl with the little curl, been talking him up to my pom relatives for years. Can win the Ashes for us taking 40 wickets and scoring 400 runs. Or could get 1-100 and make ducks. We need to win it though, have to start with him. I want to see the Mitchell Johnson which broke Graham Smiths fingers then hit devastating 100's. He is top 5 on sheer talent no doubt.

The demise of first class cricket is almost complete. How sad! See the first class batting averages last year in domestic cricket? It's abysmal. This generation don't need to learn to bat and block good balls all day to make a good living from cricket and become stars. 20-20 ruined the passion and will in cricket. Unfortunately it is here to stay.

 

[Super Hans]

Rogers will be an epic fail this summer, wait and see. Marsh gets in on talent alone if he is fit.

Hartley/Paine either/or. Haddin is passed it, he is not test standard. Give someone else a go.

Bailey - please FFS. The guy averaged 18 last year in first class cricket. Note - first class cricket. Not pyjama cricket which no-one gives a shit about the results with no pressure placed upon them.

Johnson - Like the girl with the little curl, been talking him up to my pom relatives for years. Can win the Ashes for us taking 40 wickets and scoring 400 runs. Or could get 1-100 and make ducks. We need to win it though, have to start with him. I want to see the Mitchell Johnson which broke Graham Smiths fingers then hit devastating 100's. He is top 5 on sheer talent no doubt.

The demise of first class cricket is almost complete. How sad! See the first class batting averages last year in domestic cricket? It's abysmal. This generation don't need to learn to bat and block good balls all day to make a good living from cricket and become stars. 20-20 ruined the passion and will in cricket. Unfortunately it is here to stay.

What you said for Bailey can be said exactly the same for Marsh.

 

[Black Diamond]

So Bailey is a no based on last seasons poor Shield form, whereas Rogers who was in good form last summer and one of our best in the Ashes is a no based on...? You're just guessing, right?

Marsh is in based on "talent" despite a very poor Shield season, the same one for which Bailey doesn't deserve a call up. But Rogers who was amongst the best and then backed it up at the Ashes doesn't get picked.

Good post. Well thought out, logical post.

 

[courtjester]

I think we've reached the point of looking beyond last year's Shield form. We just have to pick guys who we think can do the job. Imo:

Rogers
S.Marsh
Watson
Cosgrove
Clarke
Smith
Haddin
Johnson/Forkers
Siddle
Harris
Lyon

 

[bird_man]

I'm not going to pick my number 6 until the Shield starts. I would actually love to see Bailey come out and make a couple of massive scores and get a game but for now I don't think he deserves it. Marsh is a long long way off. Wade probably deserves it more than anyone else, he's probably not the most talented but he's got two test hundreds and is consistently scoring runs at FC level. Maxwell had a really good Aus A tour but still probably doesn't have the temperament for test cricket. Hughes FC form was terrific last year but he just can't seem to do it at test level consistently, Khawaja has been hopeless for Australia... Anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring?

Rogers
Warner
Watson
Clarke
Smith
(Whoever is in cracking FC form)
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Harris
Lyon

 

[eth-dog]

I'm not going to pick my number 6 until the Shield starts. I would actually love to see Bailey come out and make a couple of massive scores and get a game but for now I don't think he deserves it. Marsh is a long long way off. Wade probably deserves it more than anyone else, he's probably not the most talented but he's got two test hundreds and is consistently scoring runs at FC level. Maxwell had a really good Aus A tour but still probably doesn't have the temperament for test cricket. Hughes FC form was terrific last year but he just can't seem to do it at test level consistently, Khawaja has been hopeless for Australia... Anyone else want to throw their hat in the ring?

Rogers
Warner
Watson
Clarke
Smith
(Whoever is in cracking FC form)
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Harris
Lyon

I'll be seen as a biased Victorian here, but Cameron White's form since Xmas has been very good, plus he's a leader and a slipper as well, and would have seen a lot of all the pom bowlers with his extensive history in County Cricket so he may well get a gig.

 

[bird_man]

I'll be seen as a biased Victorian here, but Cameron White's form since Xmas has been very good, plus he's a leader and a slipper as well, and would have seen a lot of all the pom bowlers with his extensive history in County Cricket so he may well get a gig.

I think Whites papers have been stamped. Saying that anyone can come out and score two big hundreds and be in with a chance you'd think.

 

[Black Diamond]

Voges should be considered for number 6 based on the Chris Rogers principle if he makes Shield runs.

 

[StingBitten]

Here's my starting XI:

1. Marsh
2. Rogers
3. Clarke
4. Watson
5. Warner
6. Bailey
7. Haddin
8. Johnson
9. Siddle
10. Harris
11. Lyon

The only thing I'm confused about is the batting order. The way I've written it is a non-preferred order, but I just don't like Warner or Watson either opening or batting 3rd. They're 4th and 5th batsmen in my opinion. I feel Clarke could handle the pressure of number 3 a lot better. I also don't like Marsh as 3rd, as he failed dismally in this spot against India; but again I'm nor sure of him as an opening batsmen.

Feel Bailey should get the nod ahead of Smith as well. If Rogers, Marsh or Bailey fail we've got Hughes, Khawaja and Smith on stand-by. Haddin's been struggling with making runs as well; but he's a stand-out keeper. Wade isn't exactly batting himself into the side either.

 

[Kram]

I don't see what Marsh has done to get his name thrown up, unless he stacks up some runs over the next 3 weeks. Has all the talent but lacks the mental application.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I don't see what Marsh has done to get his name thrown up, unless he stacks up some runs over the next 3 weeks. Has all the talent but lacks the mental application.

I love watching Shaun Marsh bat on the rare occasions he's got his head together.

Don't want him anywhere near the Ashes squad. I'd rather put up with inelegant pigdogs like Cowan than Marsh.

 

[bird_man]

Here's my starting XI:

1. Marsh
2. Rogers
3. Clarke
4. Watson
5. Warner
6. Bailey
7. Haddin
8. Johnson
9. Siddle
10. Harris
11. Lyon

The only thing I'm confused about is the batting order. The way I've written it is a non-preferred order, but I just don't like Warner or Watson either opening or batting 3rd. They're 4th and 5th batsmen in my opinion. I feel Clarke could handle the pressure of number 3 a lot better. I also don't like Marsh as 3rd, as he failed dismally in this spot against India; but again I'm nor sure of him as an opening batsmen.

Feel Bailey should get the nod ahead of Smith as well. If Rogers, Marsh or Bailey fail we've got Hughes, Khawaja and Smith on stand-by. Haddin's been struggling with making runs as well; but he's a stand-out keeper. Wade isn't exactly batting himself into the side either.

It's a sad time for Australian cricket when the two most talked about batsmen for the open batting spot haven't made any impact on FC cricket for a long time. I can't believe you want both of them in. And Bailey over Smith is an unbelievable call, why would you drop Smith? Dropping a guy that has just scored a test hundred? Strange.