Vic Lidia Thorpe: Not the subject for every thread!

[Gethelred]

Seeing as Lidia discussion is cropping up across multiple threads, let's have us a thread for people who want to discuss her contribution to Australian politics.

It should go without saying but seeing as she's a bit of a beacon for controversy - for a variety of reasons - let's just remind ourselves what the board rules are around racism and sexism, shall we?

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Standard board rules apply, but let's make this abundantly clear: let's play nicely in here.

Go nuts.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

You can only really do absolutely nothing or give the whole country back and that's the real shame here.

No. There is another way. Let's build a Republic WITH Aboriginal Australia, all of us as one. We won't be a colonial imposition from the outside anymore and we won't have the baggage that being a colonial relic brings.

'Treaty' at its heart only matters as a negotiated settlement between conqueror and conquered. A Republic evens out the status of ALL people.

Under a new flag.

Inside a new nation.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Fine. Then get educated.

The simple answer is Australias judicial system has handed ownership back of 70% of all crown land since it was seized/colonized, so maybe don’t criticize something that has been somewhat achieving the function you were trying to criticize it for since probably before you were born.

Right, so I suggested handing all crown land to rightful owners, you've quoted me with a bunch of nonsense and somehow that's my fault. I reckon simple answers have you right on the limit of your cognitive abilities. Luckily you still have that winning personality and non-shitty social opinions to keep you popular tho.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

No. There is another way. Let's build a Republic WITH Aboriginal Australia, all of us as one. We won't be a colonial imposition from the outside anymore and we won't have the baggage that being a colonial relic brings.

'Treaty' at its heart only matters as a negotiated settlement between conqueror and conquered. A Republic evens out the status of ALL people.

Under a new flag.

Inside a new nation.

Sounds ok.

 

[Gralin]

No. There is another way. Let's build a Republic WITH Aboriginal Australia, all of us as one. We won't be a colonial imposition from the outside anymore and we won't have the baggage that being a colonial relic brings.

'Treaty' at its heart only matters as a negotiated settlement between conqueror and conquered. A Republic evens out the status of ALL people.

Under a new flag.

Inside a new nation.

Sounds like a new flag and nothing changing to be honest

 

[Sphynx]

Right, so I suggested handing all crown land to rightful owners, you've quoted me with a bunch of nonsense and somehow that's my fault. I reckon simple answers have you right on the limit of your cognitive abilities. Luckily you still have that winning personality and non-shitty social opinions to keep you popular tho.

How is it nonsense?

The current legal process in Australia has meant that First Nations people in this country have been handed back comparatively more land than any other indigenous people on earth under similar schemes.

Everyone cites NZ’s treaty. Well the Maori’s control/own 10% of NZ’s land mass.

Canadians have handed back 5-10% to the Inuit and Métis.

Native Americans control 3.5% of the US

Indigenous Australians control/own 40% of one of the largest land masses on earth. 3,000,000 km2. That is roughly land the size of India or 12 x the size of the United Kingdom.


We still need to find a fair resolution to the issue that doesn’t impact the entire country in a catastrophic way, but to insinuate nothing has been done, or that indigenous Australians have been continually rail roaded on this issue for all of history, is crap.

Both sides of politics were very progressive on this for their era, both Whitlam and Malcom Fraser. Both the ALP and the LP (Not the nationals) should be commended regarding it, both have provided Bi-Partizan support for it regularly in the past 5 decades also.

Most of the remaining crown land mass in the country that doesn’t have some sort of indigenous ownership/control are on key infrastructure, tourism, public interest sites like airports, train stations, major roads and highways, military bases, Bondi Beach (as an example) - I.E urban areas or critical infrastructure or areas of national security.

The remaining land in the country outside of this is all freehold land. I.E the house you are sitting in.


Which is where the debate will eventually get to when everyone cuts playing the games.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Sounds like a new flag and nothing changing to be honest

It would take effort, yeah. Gumption. Work-rate. HEART.

The trick would be to shake the 'she'll be right, mate' apathy.

 

[Gralin]

It would take effort, yeah. Gumption. Work-rate. HEART.

The trick would be to shake the 'she'll be right, mate' apathy.

Again if you're just making it a republic and changing the flag and saying job done not a colony anymore

You've really done nothing

 

[QuietB]

You don't strike me as someone who is on the fence about the monarchy in Australia. Reckon this song and dance convinced many people that are?

I'm ambivalent about the monarchy and I do think Thorpe was disrespectful. But if Thorpe was not as antagonistic as she is then we would never hear her at all.

I pretty much support all of what she stands for although I think it was a huge mistake by her to be part of torpedoing the Voice referendum.

What infuriates me is the blatant hypocrisy of the Liberal Party, the media and most of those who are attacking her who instantly shift to identity politics and are never willing to address the actual issues raised.

Dutton destroyed the Voice referendum for the benefit of miners and pastoralists only and he has not said a word since - unless he is disparaging indigenous people.

Australia is so far down the USA culture war path that we never really have a serious conversation about anything. When faced with that, while disrespectful, I believe Thorpe is perfectly entitled to act like she did.

As Thorpe has stated she wrote to both the King and the Prime Minister and did not get a response from either. So both are fair game.

 

[sandeano]

I like Charles. He seems a decent, if rather bumbling fellow and he means well in what he does. I also realise that he has been ill of late and this trip has probably taken a lot out of him. That I appreciate and I wish him the best.

But good on Lidia.

Attending a few welcome to country ceremonies, shaking some hands, listening to some stories is all well and good but sometimes the hard words need to be spoken (or yelled). It has made international news - something that decades of politeness has not.

This will hopefully open the discussion to further admittance of past wrongs and future repatriations.

 

[QuietB]

I’m still all for free speech. And she can voice exactly what she wants on the appropriate forums.

But shouting at Charles and Camilla at a formal event like an attention whore with no dignity is the behaviour that’s unacceptable.

Was Dutton boycotting the Apology - a formal parliamentary event that he is expected to attend given he receives a wage from the Crown - Dutton being an "attention whore"?

 

[Sphynx]

I'm ambivalent about the monarchy and I do think Thorpe was disrespectful. But if Thorpe was not as antagonistic as she is then we would never hear her at all.

I pretty much support all of what she stands for although I think it was a huge mistake by her to be part of torpedoing the Voice referendum.

What infuriates me is the blatant hypocrisy of the Liberal Party, the media and most of those who are attacking her who instantly shift to identity politics and are never willing to address the actual issues raised.

Dutton destroyed the Voice referendum for the benefit of miners and pastoralists only and he has not said a word since - unless he is disparaging indigenous people.

Australia is so far down the USA culture war path that we never really have a serious conversation about anything. When faced with that, while disrespectful, I believe Thorpe is perfectly entitled to act like she did.

As Thorpe has stated she wrote to both the King and the Prime Minister and did not get a response from either. So both are fair game.

And yet, one of the most successful recent and impactful pieces of social policy for indigenous welfare was driven by a nerdy mandarin speaking PM.

You don’t have to be antagonistic to affect real change. What has Lidia changed? Honestly? The Nature Positive Package and Detention reporting? In 5 years? She’s an example of a divisive demagogue, all huff and puff and no positive change.

She even stated that was her intention when she rose to the Senate. She was there to “infiltrate” rather than debate real policy change.

In fact, actively destroying the Voice campaign may be the only thing she is remembered for in years to come outside of her controversial behaviour.

 

[Gethelred]

I’m still all for free speech. And she can voice exactly what she wants on the appropriate forums.

But shouting at Charles and Camilla at a formal event like an attention whore with no dignity is the behaviour that’s unacceptable.

Colloquialism or no, for someone who was told to leave the sexism out of this thread this is some thin ice you're treading.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Again if you're just making it a republic and changing the flag and saying job done not a colony anymore

You've really done nothing

This is purely how I see things, but one thing that I think will change is that it's going to make those who don't feel like they've ever been a part of this nation due to its colonial trappings change their pespective. They will finally 'buy in'.

ALL peoples settled on this land will be there as equal citizens from the birth of this new nation, rather than having the perception of the Commonwealth of Australia as a state of political being that was imposed on them from the outside.

'Belonging' means a lot, as I see it. Fair enough if you can't quite get it, or have become too jaded and cynical over the years to engage. But actually 'belonging' to a nation as a political state of being - it means a shift in mindset. No more a victim of the past looking for what is owed.

'Closing the gap' may well be something much more attainable when everybody buys in to the new political reality.

 

[ReidBetweenTheLines]

Colloquialism or no, for someone who was told to leave the sexism out of this thread this is some thin ice you're treading.

Oh please. Men are attention whores too. Now you’re just looking for sexism where it doesn’t exist.

But if it pleases yiu, Lidia acted like an attention troll. Better?

 

[ReidBetweenTheLines]

This will hopefully open the discussion to further admittance of past wrongs and future repatriations.

How much more national apologising do you want? Talk about permanent victim-hood.

Grow up and move on.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

This will hopefully open the discussion to further admittance of past wrongs and future repatriations.

Nobody with any power to enact change wants to have anything to do with Lidia or her ideas.

 

[CM86]

I wonder if Dusty used to call Lidia Aunty when his uncle was sleeping with her.

How much more national apologising do you want? Talk about permanent victim-hood.

Grow up and move on.

This is where the actual hate for Thorpe is from.
Being an Aboriginal woman.

 

[South of the Yarra]

How much more national apologising do you want? Talk about permanent victim-hood.

Grow up and move on.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

This is where the actual hate for Thorpe is from.
Being an Aboriginal woman.

Or because she's a narcissistic, antagonistic campaigner. Not really qualities most people find too endearing

 

[Gralin]

This is purely how I see things, but one thing that I think will change is that it's going to make those who don't feel like they've ever been a part of this nation due to its colonial trappings change their pespective. They will finally 'buy in'.

They'll finally buy in?

ALL peoples settled on this land will be there as equal citizens from the birth of this new nation, rather than having the perception of the Commonwealth of Australia as a state of political being that was imposed on them from the outside.

Dude it's still stolen lans its not equal and the idea that removing the union jack fixes things is such hopes and prayers

'Belonging' means a lot, as I see it. Fair enough if you can't quite get it, or have become too jaded and cynical over the years to engage. But actually 'belonging' to a nation as a political state of being - it means a shift in mindset. No more a victim of the past looking for what is owed.

'Closing the gap' may well be something much more attainable when everybody buys in to the new political reality.

This is such woo woo crap

The issues are much much bigger than we're a constitutional monarchy removing that and saying ok now buy in we're all equal now is about as useful as have a voice to Parliament that can't do anything