Lions Guernsey survey results: An open letter to Malcolm Holmes

[Brisbane2013]

Surely you wouldn't contribute an alternate view and argument to the topic at hand having only "skimmed through it".
I trust you will read the entirity of the opening posts to consider what is being asked, suggested and presented.

Fine i'll read it through it, but it won't change my opinion that you guys are fighting a lost cause.

 

[Skoob]

I said i skimmed through it before, but it's nonsence, and other then a few outraged fans and constant petitions there isn't to much else to this.

And the constant denial from brisbane back in 2009 was only due to protecting there business, they knew if they told the fans
1. there would be a backlash
2. people would wait till the new merchindise arrives instead of buying the old stock.

Again, what does that tell you???

 

[Brisbane2013]

Again, what does that tell you???

That brisbane cares about money more then the fans?

 

[chopperduck]

The logo might not have any meaning for you, with it just being the logo the team uses, but you need to understand the club has a very long and rich history, and the old logo is a part of that, and for many many people, the old logo does mean something. There are always going to be people that don't mind, and those that do, the point we are trying to raise is that the new logo has divided the club and supporters. It's not just a handfull of supporters afraid of change that want this to happen, a very big portion of members, and supporters alike would like to see a change, or at the very least, would still like the old logo. For others, like myself, the new logo simply represents a dark and horrible time for our club, it stinks of Bowers and Kelly and the clear disdain they showed for members, and supporters a like.

Most people would be happy to have a new rebranded logo, as long as we are part of the process, and not told to shut up and give us your money.

 

[Fatcat08]

I said i skimmed through it before, but it's nonsence, and other then a few outraged fans and constant petitions there isn't to much else to this.

And the constant denial from brisbane back in 2009 was only due to protecting there business, they knew if they told the fans
1. there would be a backlash
2. people would wait till the new merchindise arrives instead of buying the old stock.

Don't you think that what you have stated reflects the fact that the way they went about it was wrong and incorrect and by your own definition against the wishes of members?

If you read the data collected you would see that the issue isn't isolated to a few outraged fans, a large percentage of people surveyed had similar feelings. Unfortunately most people don't know that they can do something when they don't like it, they tend to complain to each other but don't do anything. Those involved gave people an outlet to display their displeasure in a real sense and the outcome was overwhelming, the current jumper splits our members.

 

[Haso]

the current jumper splits our members.

As demonstrated excellently by the last page of this thread. I think it might also be a good reflection of the group differences, too.

 

[_hyphy]

Lions Insider hoping you can alert the board to this page or obtain an official reply?

 

[chopperduck]

Fine i'll read it through it, but it won't change my opinion that you guys are fighting a lost cause.

Lost cause or not isn't the point, the point is as members we are entitled to a say in how the club runs. A membership isn't just a season pass, it's being a part of the club, which is something the last administration denied us on a very vital part of the club, ie the jumper and a major logo change, which holds a lot of club history and emotional connections for people. The club was found out to straight up lie to our faces about it all as well. This is the underlying point of this whole movement. It's not to bring back the old logo, it's about getting things right. The fact that the new administration extended this jumper and logo contract without member knowledge is shades of what happened previously, which is why it has got some of us upset.

We simply want the club to say they hear us, and will involve and listen to our voice when the time comes to make the change.

 

[Fatcat08]

Lions Insider hoping you can alert the board to this page or obtain an official reply?

Bob posted a page or so ago that it has been forwarded to Malcolm Holmes. We will have to wait and see what happens

 

[Haso]

Lost cause or not isn't the point, the point is as members we are entitled to a say in how the club runs. A membership isn't just a season pass, it's being a part of the club, which is something the last administration denied us on a very vital part of the club, ie the jumper and a major logo change, which holds a lot of club history and emotional connections for people. The club was found out to straight up lie to our faces about it all as well. This is the underlying point of this whole movement. It's not to bring back the old logo, it's about getting things right. The fact that the new administration extended this jumper and logo contract without member knowledge is shades of what happened previously, which is why it has got some of us upset.

We simply want the club to say they hear us, and will involve and listen to our voice when the time comes to make the change.

Stated perfectly, CD.

 

[Fatcat08]

Lost cause or not isn't the point, the point is as members we are entitled to a say in how the club runs. A membership isn't just a season pass, it's being a part of the club, which is something the last administration denied us on a very vital part of the club, ie the jumper and a major logo change, which holds a lot of club history and emotional connections for people. The club was found out to straight up lie to our faces about it all as well. This is the underlying point of this whole movement. It's not to bring back the old logo, it's about getting things right. The fact that the new administration extended this jumper and logo contract without member knowledge is shades of what happened previously, which is why it has got some of us upset.

We simply want the club to say they hear us, and will involve and listen to our voice when the time comes to make the change.

I think this is a fairly important point to make. Correct me if I'm wrong but the way AFL clubs are set up is that the board and therefore the staff are appointed by member votes. Its not like overseas sports clubs or even the Brisbane Broncos for example, that are privately owned or owned by shareholders. If we as the members of the club feel that the people who run the club aren't running it in a way we feel reflects the wishes of its members then it is our responsibility to ensure that either they do, or if they are unwilling replace them with people who are prepared to run the club in the way that its members wish it to be run.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

I said i skimmed through it before, but it's nonsence, and other then a few outraged fans and constant petitions there isn't to much else to this.

And the constant denial from brisbane back in 2009 was only due to protecting there business, they knew if they told the fans
1. there would be a backlash
2. people would wait till the new merchindise arrives instead of buying the old stock.

Your dismissive attitude is a weak facade for your inability to note your own preference. Your trying to portray anyone who isn't ambivalent as being part of a "few outraged supporters" is deliberately offensive, trying to paint your stand as the right one, and marginalise those who disagree. Your saying we can't be focussing on creating a winning footy team while talking about the guernsey issue is just nonsense. You really do sound like Bowers did at the time.

The analysis was done in keeping with university standard statistical analysis. The surveys were filled out by 300+ people on their way to the Gabba. They were not the outraged BigFooty nuts you're calling them. It clearly demonstrates the majority of members & supporters prefer the traditional lion. Deal with it like an adult.

 

[western royboy]

 

[Grade_Zero]

That brisbane cares about money more then the fans?

It disturbs me that you're so accepting of that. The willingness to just roll over and accept the injustice of the jumper issue that you're displaying here is exactly the kind of attitude that the previous board were hoping for when they pulled the stunt, and says to the current board that they can attempt to pull something similar in the future if they so desire. We need to get the message across that we're prepared to fight against actions like these, and that we'll do so until it is fixed, or we receive satisfactory answers.

Not to mention, the results of this survey suggest that it would likely be financially beneficial to the club to take action on this matter.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

See, divisive! Splinter groups forming everywhere!

Splitters!

 

[Sir G]

I'll go on hunger strike until they change the jumper, I need to lose weight anyway....

 

[lionbear]

People will get over it in time, but the guernsy has done nothing to effect the club at all, so i don't get the outroar on it, cant believe this is going on 2 years after it happened.

Nope we wont get over it, I am yet to receive an exceptable explanation from the club on why we wear these jumpers, we are now widely regarded as the ugliest club int he AFL. Until the club either fixes the jumpers or gives a reasonable explanation as to why we continue to use these jumpers, I wont get over it.

I am happy for you that you like the jumper, and if the club shows solid proof that this is the most popular jumper amongst all members then I except it, but until then I can't stand to watch close ups of our jumper when watching a game, and that's wrong.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

After all this, let's agree to stay friends

 

[lionbear]

That brisbane cares about money more then the fans?

If this was true, we could fold in 10 or 20 years, no fans equals no money no money equals no club.

You need fans to get sponsors and crowds.

 

[Brisbane2013]

All i'm saying is that i prefer the new guernsey and we all know how little petitions or anything will go to change anything, i'm just being realistic here.

 

[ZoBlitz]

All i'm saying is that i prefer the new guernsey and we all know how little petitions or anything will go to change anything, i'm just being realistic here.

If you didn't like the guernsey and felt that the change was done without proper consultation with you as a supporter of the Brisbane Lions, would you be happy to let things go?

 

[Brisbane2013]

If you didn't like the guernsey and felt that the change was done without proper consultation with you as a supporter of the Brisbane Lions, would you be happy to let things go?

Well if i didn't like it the guernsey i would be the same as you guys, but i would still keep a sence of realism and know not much will come out of it.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

I hope that isn't the reality.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Well if i didn't like it the guernsey i would be the same as you guys, but i would still keep a sence of realism and know not much will come out of it.

I think you have missed the point of this thread. This isn't bf lions supporters vs the club, we want to work with the club to create better communication between the club and the members, it's not just about the guernsey. I share 2 memberships with a few people and think we have the right to know at the minimum what is going on with the guernsey after being treated poorly when the changes happened a few years ago.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Will quote my posts in the other thread here, as it applies...

I'm not currently a member nor have I been for a few years for financial reasons, so my view may not count to the degree that a full members might.

While some might view the jumper as a bit of clothing that carries our colours, you only have to look and listen to the players when they don the old Fitzroy colours that they feel 10 foot tall. I've spoken to a couple of players past and present who while club duty prevents them from denigrating it outright, shuffled uncomfortably in seeming embarrassment when asked their feeling about wearing it. Has the club asked the players what they'd prefer? I'd bet on the result with confidence.

If you're reading this Mr Holmes, ask yourself how the Collingwood players feel about pulling on those black and white stripes before a game given the history and passion at that club. Its the same reason that our cricketers wear the baggy green for the first session of every test match, when a more sensible approach might be a wide-brim hat. If I were the club I'd put the original lion back on the jumper and install mirrors in our change room so the boys can see that Lion that has such a history with our club sitting proud on their chests.

If the club is serious about maximising on-field performance in every aspect, it must get us away from the embarrassing cartoon currently stealing real estate on the front of the jumper which represents our great club and take steps to bring it about as soon as possible. The club talk about getting respect back on and off-field. This would be a big step.

Others have spoken about the slight on supporters by extending this deal secretly. When a change comes abut I hope that (1) supporters get the chance to influence the choice democratically and (2) non-members are not completely frozen out of the process. As a non-member Mr Holmes, I was treated like dirt by your predecessor. I would like to think that as a foundation and a 13 year member that my opinion does count for something.

While I appreciate how important the sponsorship dollar is, it's also important that any potential sponsors understand the passion and history behind football clubs and how, curiously, a football jumper says so much more about its club than on might normally expect.

(hopefully this makes sense as I typed it out on a iPhone!!!)