List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[The Spirit of Cricket]

2021 has not been the year to suggest Tom is the equal of Oliver. Oliver is four years younger, his team is premiership favourite and he is every chance of taking home one or more of the Brownlow, Coaches votes and MVP.

Who knows next year, but not sure why people are fixated on this. Oliver might be the best mid in the game right now, and he's not even in his prime yet.

i know he's young but Oliver is 100% in his prime and has been for like 3 years. Kid is a gun and has been putting up the same stats since he was like 20. His contested work and hands are certainly a bit better (clearances up by about 1), but he actually averaged more tackles, marks and goals in previous years. His big improvement is probably his kicking:handball ratio, but even then he's a pretty mediocre kick and his hands are his greatest weapon so its not like its been revolutionary.

I really don't think the importance of Max Gawn and their outside players on the impact of their mids can be stressed enough. By most metrics, Titch is equivalent to Oliver outside of his clearance-work. But Oliver is more damaging because he has an incredibly deep midfield around him including good outside run + carry players, a top-3 bull and a top-2 tap ruckman possibly of all time.

I think the comparison to Melbourne's midfield mix is important because it demonstrates that such a mix CAN work, but also highlights our deficiencies — dominant ruckman, deep midfield that we can rotate 7-8 players through, and strong, quick wingers. So how do we get these players on our list? We have Reeves and Bramble, and there's hope we can move CJ/Scrim/Day up the field a bit. But I don't think we should necessarily rely on our current list to fix these holes, because there's no guarantee CJ/Scrim have the ability to play in the mid/wing.

I think we need to address this through trade and draft.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[threesixpio]

Such a great player. Back injury badly timed re a trade. Will **** me off no end if he goes for peanuts and plays like a champ for years

 

[threesixpio]

BUT - I was the first to say we should have traded out some players whilst they had currency a couple of years ago. THIS is where I think our club failed - not so much with who we brought in

 

[Stratton24]

BUT - I was the first to say we should have traded out some players whilst they had currency a couple of years ago. THIS is where I think our club failed - not so much with who we brought in

Players have to agree to a trade

 

[palmomagpie]

Can anyone confirm or deny
j.gunston trade request ?

It was "announced" by one of those dodgy trade pages on Facebook run by a 14 year old, who also said Carlton are confident Teague will lead them to their next premiership, Ross Lyon is a lock for Collingwood coach and the Dogs are throwing the sink at Bruest. Whilst it may turn out to be true, this is just one of those pages that makes 99 stupid rumours but gets a pumped chest when 1 is right.

There's going to be a stack of rumours, or "smoke" as Gerard says, because of that article about him firing up at the younger players. But last year he was 100% going to Collingwood and that didn't eventuate. Bruest was 100% going to Geelong. I feel the media want an exodus from Hawthorn, much like they wanted and got one from the Crows after the training camp fiasco.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

BUT - I was the first to say we should have traded out some players whilst they had currency a couple of years ago. THIS is where I think our club failed - not so much with who we brought in

yeah AFAIk jack wasn't open to a trade until last year and he would've failed medicals I'm pretty sure so it would've been pointless anyway

 

[TylerDurden]

yeah AFAIk jack wasn't open to a trade until last year and he would've failed medicals I'm pretty sure so it would've been pointless anyway

He'd still fail the medical

 

[ralphwiggum]

Such a great player. Back injury badly timed re a trade. Will fu** me off no end if he goes for peanuts and plays like a champ for years

And here I am, waiting for him to take over the captaincy

 

[Bugs1977]

Later this week I would think there will be some rumors, but I wouldn’t expect that we would make anything public just yet.

Just keep a lookout for the Instagram goodbyes / farewells

 

[Mrzohs]

It was "announced" by one of those dodgy trade pages on Facebook run by a 14 year old, who also said Carlton are confident Teague will lead them to their next premiership, Ross Lyon is a lock for Collingwood coach and the Dogs are throwing the sink at Bruest. Whilst it may turn out to be true, this is just one of those pages that makes 99 stupid rumours but gets a pumped chest when 1 is right.

There's going to be a stack of rumours, or "smoke" as Gerard says, because of that article about him firing up at the younger players. But last year he was 100% going to Collingwood and that didn't eventuate. Bruest was 100% going to Geelong. I feel the media want an exodus from Hawthorn, much like they wanted and got one from the Crows after the training camp fiasco.

If that's where it come from I'll take it with a grain of salt. I Have heard his name talked about on sen. The silly season has started

 

[Cyzzametimbres]

i know he's young but Oliver is 100% in his prime and has been for like 3 years. Kid is a gun and has been putting up the same stats since he was like 20. His contested work and hands are certainly a bit better (clearances up by about 1), but he actually averaged more tackles, marks and goals in previous years. His big improvement is probably his kicking:handball ratio, but even then he's a pretty mediocre kick and his hands are his greatest weapon so its not like its been revolutionary.

I really don't think the importance of Max Gawn and their outside players on the impact of their mids can be stressed enough. By most metrics, Titch is equivalent to Oliver outside of his clearance-work. But Oliver is more damaging because he has an incredibly deep midfield around him including good outside run + carry players, a top-3 bull and a top-2 tap ruckman possibly of all time.

I think the comparison to Melbourne's midfield mix is important because it demonstrates that such a mix CAN work, but also highlights our deficiencies — dominant ruckman, deep midfield that we can rotate 7-8 players through, and strong, quick wingers. So how do we get these players on our list? We have Reeves and Bramble, and there's hope we can move CJ/Scrim/Day up the field a bit. But I don't think we should necessarily rely on our current list to fix these holes, because there's no guarantee CJ/Scrim have the ability to play in the mid/wing.

I think we need to address this through trade and draft.

He also looks a lot better because he gets away with 8 throws a game. Kicking is horrendous but he can kick long. Has sticky hands and can tackle.

 

[H00t]

Must've missed 2018 Titch, also post bye Titch. Titch post bye has been unreal and even then his contested work is still improving each game because of his no full pre season since 2018 and the fact he had shoulder reco just after a broken leg recovery season. 2022 will show a fair bit there.

Titch’s contested work has improved post bye. But it’s still not to the level of 2018. And even in 2018 while his work was better, to me he still wasn’t the equal of Oliver this year solely in regards to contested work.

Titch racks up possessions for fun but he isn’t the guy that dominates contested situations. Titch’s uncontested work is better Oliver’s.

If we had contested mids to the level of Oliver and Petracca our midfield wouldn’t be the weakest part of the ground for us. Part of the problem is while all our mids are inside they can’t compete against the top inside mids.

 

[Toasted]

the talk was he hit a trigger but it was for low pay so we would offer a better longer deal

Yep, very true. Imagine they’ll wait until the silly season is over and see what cap space is left over

 

[MrPremiership]

When is the Peter Crimmins Medal? Suspect no delistings will be official until thats done.

 

[Bugs1977]

I'd be making know that if you want Gunners then it will take a decent compensation. I'd be eyeing off Brisbane's pick 15 or 18 and would be willing to send back a 3rd rounder to even things out. His value goes way beyond just being a good player but also a very versatile one. If you want him then be willing to pay up or else look elsewhere. I'd be very interested to know however if he actually does want out or if its just noise.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Titch’s contested work might have improved post bye. But it’s still not to the level of 2018. And even in 2018 while his work was better, to me he still wasn’t the equal of Oliver this year solely in regards to contested work.

Titch racks up possessions for fun but he isn’t the guy that dominates contested situations. Titch’s uncontested work is better Oliver’s.

If we had contested mids to the level of Oliver and Petracca our midfield wouldn’t be the weakest part of the ground for us. Part of the problem is while all our mids are inside they can’t compete against the top inside mids.

Tom had more clearances and tackles, and about the same contested possessions in 2018 than Oliver did this season. Titch dragged an 8-12th side to top 4 that year. Oliver has way better players around him in the midfield than we did in 2018.

 

[hfc70]

Seems the same every year people keep bringing up the names of
Bruest , Gunstone, Mitchel , Worple , JMO , Wignard for trading

Does my head in

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can anyone confirm or deny
j.gunston trade request ?

This was news a week or two ago but has since been scuttled by Tyler.

 

[MrPremiership]

Seems the same every year people keep bringing up the names of
Bruest , Gunstone, Mitchel , Worple , JMO , Wignard for trading

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Seems the same every year people keep bringing up the names of
Bruest , Gunstone, Mitchel , Worple , JMO , Wignard for trading

Does my head in

Good one,HCF.

 

[H00t]

Tom had more clearances and tackles, and about the same contested possessions in 2018 than Oliver did this season. Titch dragged an 8-12th side to top 4 that year. Oliver has way better players around him in the midfield than we did in 2018.

Titch played 2 more games in 2018 versus Oliver in 2021. So the numbers will look a little different by years end. Plus Oliver has been sharing the load this year and still getting high numbers where in 2018 the focus was Titch.

Going past the numbers though, Oliver is the more dominant contested player. Titch can find the ball. But Oliver keeps his feet, moves through the contest and breaks tackles in a way that Titch can’t.

 

[wizzard400]

The only team I can see paying overs for Gunston is Brisbane.

They need to compensate for Hipwood next year as they're in the window. He has a good relationship with Fages too I'm lead to believe.

We might be able to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of them if they come knocking.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Titch played 2 more games in 2018 versus Oliver in 2021. So the numbers will look a little different by years end. Plus Oliver has been sharing the load this year and still getting high numbers where in 2018 the focus was Titch.

Going past the numbers though, Oliver is the more dominant contested player. Titch can find the ball. But Oliver keeps his feet, moves through the contest and breaks tackles in a way that Titch can’t.

nah those numbers i gave you are based off averages

what you're describing re: contested work in our current midfield mix sounds like JOM and Worps. Both of them can break tackles, and JOM can keep his feet in tight situations, though not consistently. I guess the hope is that Nash and Newcombe can take on that contested role and allow space for Titch to distribute to our outside players (or whoever of the three current mids we keep) or have room to enter I50 themselves

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Titch’s contested work has improved post bye. But it’s still not to the level of 2018. And even in 2018 while his work was better, to me he still wasn’t the equal of Oliver this year solely in regards to contested work.

Titch racks up possessions for fun but he isn’t the guy that dominates contested situations. Titch’s uncontested work is better Oliver’s.

If we had contested mids to the level of Oliver and Petracca our midfield wouldn’t be the weakest part of the ground for us. Part of the problem is while all our mids are inside they can’t compete against the top inside mids.

Titch was way better contested wise in 2018. He averaged 8 clearances per game which is almost unmatched over a full season by most brownlow medalists. Contested possies also up there with the absolute best ever. Clarry is good but Titch is better at it (atleast then), his hands in space are better, Clarry is good but can butcher it even more than Titch too.