List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[Howe Amazing]

Bulldogs would be the other club that would need a Gunston type

 

[Hawthorn2023]

I'm going to address this sh*t once and once only.



This is Mitchell's heat map for the season:

View attachment 1214585

As you can see, 49% of his possessions come in the offensive half, with the biggest hotspot right at the coalface in the centre of the ground. So no, he doesn't spend close to 80% of his time in the back half of the ground at all.

FWIW, he is also #1 for score involvements this season at Hawthorn (total, 3rd by average).



He is 15th in the comp this season for contested possessions and #1 at Hawthorn. In past seasons, he has regularly been top 5 in the comp.



He is top 15 in the Coaches votes (despite Clarko 'sharing the love' much more than other coaches).
He is top 10 in Champion data rating points and all statistical analytics.
He is top 10 in all of the media awards.
He is top 10 in all of the Brownlow predictors, including the one put out by the AFL.

But sure, you and you alone are right.

I'd be making know that if you want Gunners then it will take a decent compensation. I'd be eyeing off Brisbane's pick 15 or 18 and would be willing to send back a 3rd rounder to even things out. His value goes way beyond just being a good player but also a very versatile one. If you want him then be willing to pay up or else look elsewhere. I'd be very interested to know however if he actually does want out or if its just noise.

Remind me again, what pick did Lions give up for Daniher?

Remind me again, how many games did Daniher play in last 3 years?

If Lions are serious, the compensation has to be top shelf.

 

[Steven Tyler]

This was news a week or two ago but has since been scuttled by Tyler.

 

[H00t]

nah those numbers i gave you are based off averages

what you're describing re: contested work in our current midfield mix sounds like JOM and Worps. Both of them can break tackles, and JOM can keep his feet in tight situations, though not consistently. I guess the hope is that Nash and Newcombe can take on that contested role and allow space for Titch to distribute to our outside players (or whoever of the three current mids we keep) or have room to enter I50 themselves

My bad about the averages, I just knew that Oliver already had more contested possessions despite the 2 less games.

I think part of the problem is we set up to get Titch so much of the ball, where the more dynamic players in there Worps, JOM etc. get less of it. He can find the footy in his sleep but it’s not helping greatly.

Dees had the same problem in 2019. They still have the same problem where they don’t know what to do with Brayshaw. But Oliver has taken a big step forward and Petracca exploded that enabled them to cover it, so they can win the ball and take the game on all at the same time.

I don’t think any of our mids moving forward have the ability to get the level these guys have shown this year. Oliver and Petracca have been 2 of the best 3 mids alongside Bont this year.

 

[TylerDurden]

View attachment 1215302

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

My bad about the averages, I just knew that Oliver already had more contested possessions despite the 2 less games.

I think part of the problem is we set up to get Titch so much of the ball, where the more dynamic players in there Worps, JOM etc. get less of it. He can find the footy in his sleep but it’s not helping greatly.

Dees had the same problem in 2019. They still have the same problem where they don’t know what to do with Brayshaw. But Oliver has taken a big step forward and Petracca exploded that enabled them to cover it, so they can win the ball and take the game on all at the same time.

I don’t think any of our mids moving forward have the ability to get the level these guys have shown this year. Oliver and Petracca have been 2 of the best 3 mids alongside Bont this year.

Wines Steele and Miller have all had better years than Oliver imo, but yes they are both approx top 5 mids in the comp. I think Titch post-bye has been on par with Oliver but we can agree to disagree on that.

JOM has had multiple 30+ games this season so it's not really impacting him that much. Worpel is the one that it hurts, but my point is you could play Titch on any position on the ground and he will get 30+ because of his immense workrate. I can't see how he's the problem when he has the ability to get to pretty much every contest on the ground from any position. Titch operates best as a distributor, like Oliver, however its not his fault if the other, more dynamic players aren't able to match his workrate and be the outlet of a disposal chain.

During the Doggies game there was a great example of this they highlighted where he won the clearance, pushed forward, contested and put pressure on a rebounding player I50, affected a tackle, then worked 20m forward to receive the ball from dispute and kick a goal within about 1 minute.

I think you highlight a significant issue in your post — the set up. Our midfield coaching has been very poor this year. I want to see a full year with Nash + Duke + Reeves + Wingard in there before we change up the midfield mix but I understand that we probably don't have the time to do that given TOM+JOM+WINGARD's ages. It probably has to be this off-season or never.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

My bad about the averages, I just knew that Oliver already had more contested possessions despite the 2 less games.

I think part of the problem is we set up to get Titch so much of the ball, where the more dynamic players in there Worps, JOM etc. get less of it. He can find the footy in his sleep but it’s not helping greatly.

Dees had the same problem in 2019. They still have the same problem where they don’t know what to do with Brayshaw. But Oliver has taken a big step forward and Petracca exploded that enabled them to cover it, so they can win the ball and take the game on all at the same time.

I don’t think any of our mids moving forward have the ability to get the level these guys have shown this year. Oliver and Petracca have been 2 of the best 3 mids alongside Bont this year.

Titch's 2018 is severely underrated, in a 5 year period from 2015 to 2020 he was the 2nd highest rated kick and by efficiency in the league of contested midfielders. He had a 15-20% higher inside mid % then Macrae who was the only one who was rated higher and had a better efficiency. His clearances and contested stuff was some of the best numbers ever and he was a freak in terms of, tackling he'd lock you up and you're not leaving and his hands were elite, he didnt need to break tackles as he would've already dished the ball out to the outside runners by the time they got to him. Fact is he also could break them and did. He was a fair bit quicker than he is atm (slowly improving and should get back to it) which is why i feel he'll get even better than his 2nd half of 2021 and his contested stuff will improve with his shoulder reco coming along well.

 

[Lore]

Scuse the intrusion guys, I know you don't like my colours much

Just thought you might like this resource on your thread (mods might like to sticky)

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Scuse the intrusion guys, I know you don't like my colours much

Just thought you might like this resource on your thread (mods might like to sticky)

Cheers legend!

 

[Jazzfan]

Remind me again, what pick did Lions give up for Daniher?

Remind me again, how many games did Daniher play in last 3 years?

If Lions are serious, the compensation has to be top shelf.

Jack is basically three years older than Joe mate.

The Lions also didn't give anything up for Joe, other then salary. It was compo from the AFL.

Getting something of value for a soon to be 30 year old that hasn't played in a year is pretty wishful thinking, sadly.

 

[Bardo State]

I'd be more okay with Gunston leaving if Hale was confirmed as an assistant.

Key position leadership is pretty thin.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

Jack is basically three years older than Joe mate.

The Lions also didn't give anything up for Joe, other then salary. It was compo from the AFL.

Getting something of value for a 30 year old that hasn't played in a year is pretty wishful thinking, sadly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting we get a top 10 pick, but if Lions are serious about Gunston, he is a guaranteed 30+ goals. What is that worth to them?

Use current picks and invest in youth or go for gold while window is wide open? Offer Pick 15 and Hawks are listening.

 

[Bardo State]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting we get a top 10 pick, but if Lions are serious about Gunston, he is a guaranteed 30+ goals. What is that worth to them?

Use current picks and invest in youth or go for gold while window is wide open? Offer Pick 15 and Hawks are listening.

Can't kick guaranteed goals if you can't play guaranteed games.

 

[MrPremiership]

Its ok for Jack to leave, but it has to be a a good price.

Absolutely no logic for us letting him go for anything less than an early second.....even then its line ball

 

[Hawthorn2023]

Can't kick guaranteed goals if you can't play guaranteed games.

Like Daniher?

If Gunston does happen to request a trade, he would have already had the chat with other clubs to gauge interest. He isn't putting himself out there, if he didn't believe he would be fit to start pre season.

Hawks rolled the dice with Burgoyne & later down the track with jom.

Over to you Lions..

 

[Bardo State]

Like Daniher?

If Gunston does happen to request a trade, he would have already had the chat with other clubs to gauge interest. He isn't putting himself out there, if he didn't believe he would be fit to start pre season.

Hawks rolled the dice with Burgoyne & later down the track with jom.

Over to you Lions..

If Gunston left, I'm pretty sure it would look more like the Brian Lake trade than the Danniher trade.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

I'd be making know that if you want Gunners then it will take a decent compensation. I'd be eyeing off Brisbane's pick 15 or 18 and would be willing to send back a 3rd rounder to even things out. His value goes way beyond just being a good player but also a very versatile one. If you want him then be willing to pay up or else look elsewhere. I'd be very interested to know however if he actually does want out or if its just noise.

Pick 18 i would take, even of we have to cover a bit of his contract for 2022.

Would love for Al to take up another coaching Job. He would trade for some of his senior men from the Hawks.

Plus would remove soft cap issues, an we could pay Bolton out.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

If Gunston left, I'm pretty sure it would look more like the Brian Lake trade than the Danniher trade.

Gunston footy IQ is very high. 3 time premiership player. He is elite!

He is far more valuable than a 2nd rounder, in my opinion.

 

[Steven Tyler]

View attachment 1215307

I’m a lover, not a fighter

(please don’t fight me)

 

[Toasted]

After all is said and done. Gunston is contracted, in our best 22 and we don’t want to lose him. At his best he is a match winner and even when his not playing well, he shows leadership and poise on the field.
Without too much bias, if a team wants him, they’ll have to satisfy our demands. We aren’t trading for pick 92 anymore and we aren’t freeing up cap space.
IMHO, has to be a first rounder and if Jack wants to leave, I’m sorry buddy, love you like a brother but if you’re destination club isn’t willing to pay you’ll have to stay.

 

[wizzard400]

I don't want to burst everyone's bubble but we will not be getting more than a 2nd rounder for a player that's 30 years old and only played 1 game this year, sorry.

A 2nd rounder is the absolute best we could hope for, and even then that's a little overs.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

This Gunston business is going to show us exactly what position the club is taking.

I suspect we'll become one of those chest beating clubs now that we're in a hard rebuild. (Noting that we've seen vast improvement in so many of our young players this year - Day, DGB, Worpel, Moore, CJ, Bramble, etc.).

If the club is like "yeah sure he's pretty old we'll take what we can get" then I think we're still playing trade week like millionairres, which we did when letting Birchall, Hill, Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis go for nothing. Really nothing.

If the club is more "he's staying with us unless it's a first rounder", even if we ease off - it'll set a more ruthless tone for everything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more interested in effective trading than posing, but it'll tell us a bit about the club's mood.


Personally, and this is harsh I know, but I won't miss Gunston - so I'll follow this one with unattached interest.

 

[MJA33]

I don't want to burst everyone's bubble but we will not be getting more than a 2nd rounder for a player that's 30 years old and only played 1 game this year, sorry.

A 2nd rounder is the absolute best we could hope for, and even then that's a little overs.

Agree on his own.

However it’s when we can package him up with a second rounder of our own, plus pay % of salary for period of contract time.

A lot of clubs are tight on salary, we aren’t and we have that as our bargaining chip.

Not saying he will go though

 

[Topiary]

Seems the same every year people keep bringing up the names of
Bruest , Gunstone, Mitchel , Worple , JMO , Wignard for trading

Does my head in

Because that is all we have.

 

[ScottMaginness]

After all is said and done. Gunston is contracted, in our best 22 and we don’t want to lose him. At his best he is a match winner and even when his not playing well, he shows leadership and poise on the field.
Without too much bias, if a team wants him, they’ll have to satisfy our demands. We aren’t trading for pick 92 anymore and we aren’t freeing up cap space.
IMHO, has to be a first rounder and if Jack wants to leave, I’m sorry buddy, love you like a brother but if you’re destination club isn’t willing to pay you’ll have to stay.

He finished 2020 as one of our standout leaders and looking like Captain material. Shame this year was such a write-off.
With the signs we've showed in the back half of the season against quality opposition , I'm hopeful that with Breust and Gunston available and contributions from the young talls we'll have enough potency to be able to kick a competitive score.