List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[perrdan86]

He’ll almost definitely play games next year, yes.
He may be slight, but most young rucks with his level of talent get games early, before they fully fill out because the philosophy is the same as for other talents…. Get games into them.

That's true. Maybe he doesn't even have to play ruck. I saw Mac Andrew at a Suns game a couple weeks ago and he has to be the skinniest afl player I've seen in person.

 

[HedgeFund]

Nankervis won a premiership as the sole ruck in 2017, he had played 12 games prior to that season

Yes, but that season Richmond had Shaun Hampson (98 games - 11 seasons) and Ivan Maric (157 games - 12 seasons running around in the 2s as back up options at the end of their careers.

 

[HedgeFund]

The future is upto the individuals and team collective, all of which I have nothing but faith in which is a huge turn around from where we have been the last two years.

What you have just described is lynch at the end of the 2023 season if he stays fit and on the park, that’s the hope but in his small window of matches their something to work with, but his game will be taxing with his jump so needs a very big pre season. Smart of the club to keep him in VFL finals.

Not saying we shouldn’t be looking for another seasoned ruck to provide support but we have probably the best three developing rucks we have had in the last 10 years now all in the side at once, they all need game time and further development for 2025, that won’t come if we are looking at a stop gap. And may stifle development.

But also why I am so strong on big boy staying around in a part time capacity, I know monkey is part of the furniture and a quality operator but I would want someone with a bit more modern day footy experience to be giving support to the three

(that may be hale and I may be getting unnecessarily worried, but have always thought the difference in a team of of quality b graders to a graders is those senior players that teach and support across their junior years)

Totally agree with the last bit.

Ruck work is a totally different art, and with Ben gone, and a Monkhorst about 25 years post retirement, we have 3 kids and no player on our list to mentor those 3.

Reeves did some nice things in 2022. He never dominated. The difference in the way our centre square crew worked when McEvoy returned (albeit against weaker teams) was patently obvious. HE told people where to go, he hit it there and they took it away.

We haven’t got that with Reeves / Lynch (yet) and with Ben harvesting wheat and feeding cattle next year the best rucking asset we have had (player and mentor) in the past 20 years has just exited the club

Hale isn’t our ruck coach. He is an assistant/line coach. I don’t think he was a particularly talented ruck anyhow . Very handy second ruck and tall forward for sure.

 

[KermitJagger]

Yes, but that season Richmond had Shaun Hampson (98 games - 11 seasons) and Ivan Maric (157 games - 12 seasons running around in the 2s as back up options at the end of their careers.

What point are you trying to make here? They still did better with the less experienced ruck, Hampson was useless, injured and over the hill and Maric was just over the hill.

Nankervis was brought in because those two blokes were mostly unavailable to play.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Totally agree with the last bit.

Ruck work is a totally different art, and with Ben gone, and a Monkhorst about 25 years post retirement, we have 3 kids and no player on our list to mentor those 3.

Reeves did some nice things in 2022. He never dominated. The difference in the way our centre square crew worked when McEvoy returned (albeit against weaker teams) was patently obvious. HE told people where to go, he hit it there and they took it away.

We haven’t got that with Reeves / Lynch (yet) and with Ben harvesting wheat and feeding cattle next year the best rucking asset we have had (player and mentor) in the past 20 years has just exited the club

Hale isn’t our ruck coach. He is an assistant/line coach. I don’t think he was a particularly talented ruck anyhow . Very handy second ruck and tall forward for sure.

Absolute crap about Reeves. Go watch the Cats game before the shoulder injury. Reeves was absolutely dominating and our midfield was all over the Cats’.

Reeves will be 24.5 come round 1 and more than ready to be our go-to ruckman. He doesn’t need a babysitter - you’re acting as though he’s a 19 year old kid being thrown to the lions. For what it’s worth - Reeves’ age next year is about the same age Naismith and Roughead were when doing the ruck work in the 2016 grand final.

Reeves has had as many years as he needs under McEvoy’s mentorship - he’ll be ready to take on the duties on his own next year. Sure, we probably need a backup ruck/forward in case Ramsden isn’t quite AFL-ready and Reeves and Lynch are both unavailable - but this histrionics about our desperate need for a mature ruckman isn’t in line with our present true list needs and likely ladder position next year.

 

[SSSSSS]

Mitchell did mention in his most recent podcast that he sees Moore's future as a 'forward thinking midfielder'. I still think that is more of what we need.

Amon could make a difference there. Has great offensive capabilities with his kicking and run. Really hope that is a focus for our drafting as well.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

HedgeFund talking absolute sense. Big Boy still clearly our best ruck when available, but at 33 years age and 250 games wear and tear the time is right for him to ride off into the sunset.

 

[KermitJagger]

HedgeFund talking absolute sense. Big Boy still clearly our best ruck when available, but at 33 years age and 250 games wear and tear the time is right for him to ride off into the sunset.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

HedgeFund talking absolute sense. Big Boy still clearly our best ruck when available, but at 33 years age and 250 games wear and tear the time is right for him to ride off into the sunset.

Disagree that he’s our best ruckman now - he’s playing as a tall target around the ground when Reeves plays with him. The weeks they played together late in the season Reeves was the primary ruckman.

Reeves is ready to be our ruckman - we should look at a cheap backup for sure as a contingency but if Reeves is fit then he’s capable.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Disagree that he’s our best ruckman now - he’s playing as a tall target around the ground when Reeves plays with him. The weeks they played together late in the season Reeves was the primary ruckman.

Reeves is ready to be our ruckman - we should look at a cheap backup for sure as a contingency but if Reeves is fit then he’s capable.

Reeves has to be primary ruck when he plays as he offers little around the ground as his numbers show. I think team balance is the reason as to why Big boy plays in different positions.

 

[Bremner20]

Disagree that he’s our best ruckman now - he’s playing as a tall target around the ground when Reeves plays with him. The weeks they played together late in the season Reeves was the primary ruckman.

Reeves is ready to be our ruckman - we should look at a cheap backup for sure as a contingency but if Reeves is fit then he’s capable.

You lost faith in Lynch already ??

 

[HODGEYROAD]

You lost faith in Lynch already ??

His concussion issues are a huge concern.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

You lost faith in Lynch already ??

No, but this season has shown that relying on two senior rucks might leave us short of injuries strike. I agree that we should get a backup ruck - but I don’t think we need to get all panicky that we don’t have a 27-29 year old senior ruck to be our primary ruckman.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

Either we restructure contracts or have to massively overpay ordinary players.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Either we restructure contracts or have to massively overpay ordinary players.

What a time to be an ordinary player hey!!!

 

[HODGEYROAD]

What a time to be an ordinary player hey!!!

Been that while for a while at Hawthorn, we lack top end talent so everyone else gets a little more.

 

[Brant]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

Grundy + Cogs + Whitfield

You know it makes sense!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

I highly doubt Gunston and McEvoy would be on that kind of money in their 30s.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I highly doubt Gunston and McEvoy would be on that kind of money in their 30s.

Gunston signed the deal when he was an AA and big boy was captain of the club. I reckon it's around the mark.

 

[cryptor]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

Sicily and Lewis just signed new contracts this year that will be on more money - particularly Lewis.

Newcombe and Moore will also need to be re-signed and will go from rookie wages to something that reflects their position now as top players on the list. Ward, MacDonald and Butler will also come off their draftee contracts after next season so we'll also be looking to extend them. Based on their performances they'll be each getting pretty good deals. Reeves another.

In general quite a few young players that will all be getting a healthy boost to their next contracts. Deservedly so.

 

[I got the outside word]

Can someone tell me how we will get anywhere near the minimum spend even with adding Amon with these 3 possibly gone next season.

McEvoy 650
Shiels 450
Gunston 650

Is there still a discount on veteran salaries in the cap? If so then we aren’t freeing up as much as that.

 

[TylerDurden]

Ferguson another 5 today. Do we consider him as a rookie this year?

 

[KermitJagger]

Ferguson another 5 today. Do we consider him as a rookie this year?

Haven't seen a VFL player who makes as much of their opportunities as Greene in a long time. I like the look of Cal Porter as well.

 

[Titch3Votes0MooreAA]

Fergus Greene

26

Fergus Greene

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

and Ben Cavarra

25

Ben Cavarra

Age

29

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

3.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

3.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

3.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

1.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.0

4star

are a class above the VFL. We could use one of them, if not both, as experienced heads up forward with Butler, Serong and Brockman developing. Both are goal-kicking machines, with both of them 1st and 3rd on the VFL goal-kicking charts, respectively.