List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[tommyk72]

Interesting, but don’t hold you breath. It’s a bit like trying to package up a bundle of players for one decent player that never happens

That was the analogy I'd drawn in my head. Was hoping it might work out - who knows with free agency!

 

[Brishawk]

What happens if you have multiple free agents taken who are that the lower end of the spectrum. For example, if Shiels and, let's say, Dan Howe, both go. Do we end up with a second rounder?

Not if we land Amon.

 

[cs61]

It seems a bit odd that if say you gain Tom Lynch fo one year, and then lose a free agent a few years later such as Chol, you get compensated even though you upgraded on a player by a huge amount...... But if we lose Gunston this year and gain Amon, as a team down the bottom end of the latter, we don't get any compensation for losing Gunston even though it hurts us just because it happens to be the same year of us gaining a free agent for the first time for ages. Very little was made out how strong Richmond's draft hand were because of that just years after poaching one of the best key forwards that would have cost 2 early first round picks to acquire. Surely the system needs to completely remove compensation completely or look at who you have gained over several years to work out if you deserve compensation or not.

Further evidence Hawthorn continues to rort free agency.

 

[Kanga Commando]

It seems a bit odd that if say you gain Tom Lynch fo one year, and then lose a free agent a few years later such as Chol, you get compensated even though you upgraded on a player by a huge amount...... But if we lose Gunston this year and gain Amon, as a team down the bottom end of the latter, we don't get any compensation for losing Gunston even though it hurts us just because it happens to be the same year of us gaining a free agent for the first time for ages. Very little was made out how strong Richmond's draft hand were because of that just years after poaching one of the best key forwards that would have cost 2 early first round picks to acquire. Surely the system needs to completely remove compensation completely or look at who you have gained over several years to work out if you deserve compensation or not.

Further evidence Hawthorn continues to rort free agency.

AFL still laughing how they screwed us on Buddy compo.

 

[cryptor]

It seems a bit odd that if say you gain Tom Lynch fo one year, and then lose a free agent a few years later such as Chol, you get compensated even though you upgraded on a player by a huge amount...... But if we lose Gunston this year and gain Amon, as a team down the bottom end of the latter, we don't get any compensation for losing Gunston even though it hurts us just because it happens to be the same year of us gaining a free agent for the first time for ages. Very little was made out how strong Richmond's draft hand were because of that just years after poaching one of the best key forwards that would have cost 2 early first round picks to acquire. Surely the system needs to completely remove compensation completely or look at who you have gained over several years to work out if you deserve compensation or not.

Further evidence Hawthorn continues to rort free agency.

Easiest solution would just be to scrap compensation picks entirely. The compensation is the free cap space you have to replace with another free agent. Understandably there isn't always going to be a suitable option available in the same year, so just let the club roll over that cap space for 2 years or something. (ie. you only have to pay the minimum cap minus the lost free agent wage, meaning within the next 2 years you can make a huge play for a free agent)

 

[Rocket72]

Easiest solution would just be to scrap compensation picks entirely. The compensation is the free cap space you have to replace with another free agent. Understandably there isn't always going to be a suitable option available in the same year, so just let the club roll over that cap space for 2 years or something. (ie. you only have to pay the minimum cap minus the lost free agent wage, meaning within the next 2 years you can make a huge play for a free agent)

I think it will be dropped at some point, it was mainly to soften the blow to clubs for the big and rapid change.

 

[Rhayader]

Easiest solution would just be to scrap compensation picks entirely. The compensation is the free cap space you have to replace with another free agent. Understandably there isn't always going to be a suitable option available in the same year, so just let the club roll over that cap space for 2 years or something. (ie. you only have to pay the minimum cap minus the lost free agent wage, meaning within the next 2 years you can make a huge play for a free agent)

Agree, the idea that a club should compensated for failing to retain its own player - or for choosing not to - doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I mean, clubs don’t get compensated if players get injured and have to retire early or can’t play for years, which isn’t a problem they can fix simply by choosing to manage their money better. So basically, you can be compensated for incompetence or strategy, but not for bad luck.

And every club that’s not even involved in the deal subsidises the compo by dropping back in the draft

 

[H00t]

Easiest solution would just be to scrap compensation picks entirely. The compensation is the free cap space you have to replace with another free agent. Understandably there isn't always going to be a suitable option available in the same year, so just let the club roll over that cap space for 2 years or something. (ie. you only have to pay the minimum cap minus the lost free agent wage, meaning within the next 2 years you can make a huge play for a free agent)

I think in an even competition scrapping compensation would be best. But it seems to fly in the face of equalisation. Especially when player movement seems to be towards the top teams not away from them.

Teams at the top would get a constant flow of top players increasing the divide while the lesser teams would keep losing players for nothing. Especially when teams can’t force a player to be traded.

Compensation picks are a way to kind of make the system fair but really there is no perfect answer.

If anything I’d recommend scrapping the removal of a priority pick when you also pick up a free agent. It encourages more movement of player. And can encourage a team at the bottom to get both the pick and player to help them improve rather than having to choose.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

It seems a bit odd that if say you gain Tom Lynch fo one year, and then lose a free agent a few years later such as Chol, you get compensated even though you upgraded on a player by a huge amount...... But if we lose Gunston this year and gain Amon, as a team down the bottom end of the latter, we don't get any compensation for losing Gunston even though it hurts us just because it happens to be the same year of us gaining a free agent for the first time for ages. Very little was made out how strong Richmond's draft hand were because of that just years after poaching one of the best key forwards that would have cost 2 early first round picks to acquire. Surely the system needs to completely remove compensation completely or look at who you have gained over several years to work out if you deserve compensation or not.

Further evidence Hawthorn continues to rort free agency.

Its about doing it in different years though. Had Richmond lost Chol the same year as Lynch, they dont get compo.

Its not unfair. Everyone has the chance to benefit from it.

We wont be complaining about the system when its our turn in 3 or 4 years and the likes of Bailey Smith or Caleb Serong are coming to us for free.

 

[Books]

What happens if you have multiple free agents taken who are that the lower end of the spectrum. For example, if Shiels and, let's say, Dan Howe, both go. Do we end up with a second rounder?

The AFL have specified in the past that FA compo is NOT cumulative. It is just calculated player by player.

The only time two players signings are linked would be if you had one player coming in and one going out. Then you MGHT get a compo pick if the OUT was a lot better than the IN.

However, in that situation the clubs find a way around it to get the best pick they can.

 

[Brishawk]

Compo got to go, hey-yo!
Compo got to go, hey-yo!

The compensation you get is salary cap relief. Yes, some free agents go to top teams but plenty to the other way too. Right now, clubs are pushing players off of the list in order to obtain compo. The compo is likely greatly contributing to any bias towards higher up the ladder clubs.

If a free agent departs a low ladder side, right now they do not want to land another free agent to replace them because it leaves them with less compo. Especially where they might get a band 1 compo. With a free agent going to a lower ranked club from a high ranked club, the high rank club is going to get worse compo and they are going to have a stronger incentive to get another free agent because they need the player today so they can win today.

Compo is a complete distortion of normal list management decision incentives and it totally destroys the draft. Especially once you add in the academy picks (and father son to a lessor extent).

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Compo got to go, hey-yo!
Compo got to go, hey-yo!

The compensation you get is salary cap relief. Yes, some free agents go to top teams but plenty to the other way too. Right now, clubs are pushing players off of the list in order to obtain compo. The compo is likely greatly contributing to any bias towards higher up the ladder clubs.

If a free agent departs a low ladder side, right now they do not want to land another free agent to replace them because it leaves them with less compo. Especially where they might get a band 1 compo. With a free agent going to a lower ranked club from a high ranked club, the high rank club is going to get worse compo and they are going to have a stronger incentive to get another free agent because they need the player today so they can win today.

Compo is a complete distortion of normal list management decision incentives and it totally destroys the draft. Especially once you add in the academy picks (and father son to a lessor extent).

Free agent compo scrapped, the AFL allowing salary dumps in the context of the new landscape with free agency, allowing the AFL to run the northern academies as opposed to the four clubs getting cheapies and scrapping any payments from the AFL over and above the salary cap would go a long way to getting rid of murkiness and establishing more professionalism.

Don't mind f/s picks staying as I like the romanticism of it all.

 

[The Seaword]

Agree, the idea that a club should compensated for failing to retain its own player - or for choosing not to - doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I mean, clubs don’t get compensated if players get injured and have to retire early or can’t play for years, which isn’t a problem they can fix simply by choosing to manage their money better. So basically, you can be compensated for incompetence or strategy, but not for bad luck.

And every club that’s not even involved in the deal subsidises the compo by dropping back in the draft

Yes every other club pays a price for free agency . I would rather see the club getting the free agent losing a pick or no compensation / penalty at all.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yes every other club pays a price for free agency . I would rather see the club getting the free agent losing a pick or no compensation / penalty at all.

If your username is a reference to the below - my hat is off to you.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

The compensation for losing a player should simply be the more free cap space that comes from it.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The compensation for losing a player should simply be the more free cap space that comes from it.

Or make it standardised at the very least. Lose a RFA - gain an end of second round pick no matter who the player is. Lose a UFA, gain an end of third round pick. It would make it less based on AFL whims and at least would start to force teams to match bids and hit the trade table like the system is meant to work.

 

[Walshawk]

This is the 2013 Grand Final side. Who on our list today could replace one of those picked.

The easy one: Sicily for Simpkin.
I don't think there is anybody else.

Hawthorn

B:	24 Ben Stratton	17 Brian Lake	14 Grant Birchall
HB:	9 Shaun Burgoyne	6 Josh Gibson	10 Bradley Hill
C:	16 Isaac Smith	5 Sam Mitchell	3 Jordan Lewis
HF:	22 Luke Breust	23 Lance Franklin	33 Cyril Rioli
F:	28 Paul Puopolo	2 Jarryd Roughead	19 Jack Gunston
Foll:	39 Max Bailey	12 Brad Sewell	15 Luke Hodge (c)
Int:	26 Liam Shiels	18 Brent Guerra	20 David Hale
	32 Jonathan Simpkin (sub)
Coach:	Alastair Clarkson

So the current players good enough to make that team are Sicily, Bruest and Gunston. Maybe Newk for Shiels and McEvoy for Bailey. Comp is more even now and Team don’t have as many stars. Who from Melbourne would make it?
Gawn for Baily
Petracca for Puopolo
Oliver for Simpkin
Lever for Guerra
May for Lake?
Brayshaw for Shiels
Viney for Sewell?

 

[Walshawk]

Free agent compo scrapped, the AFL allowing salary dumps in the context of the new landscape with free agency, allowing the AFL to run the northern academies as opposed to the four clubs getting cheapies and scrapping any payments from the AFL over and above the salary cap would go a long way to getting rid of murkiness and establishing more professionalism.

Don't mind f/s picks staying as I like the romanticism of it all.

Keep F/S just drop the 20% points discount so you pay full Price.

 

[The Seaword]

If your username is a reference to the below - my hat is off to you.

Yes it is thank you for being the first person to get this. And yes I AMA see you next tuesday

 

[Roger Rogerson]

AFL still laughing how they screwed us on Buddy compo.

I'll never get over that one. Just sums up how corrupt the AFL is.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Or make it standardised at the very least. Lose a RFA - gain an end of second round pick no matter who the player is. Lose a UFA, gain an end of third round pick. It would make it less based on AFL whims and at least would start to force teams to match bids and hit the trade table like the system is meant to work.

But then Gary Ablett wouldn’t have been able to get back to Geelong…………..

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Is Jack Saunders gone, just the way he has written his post has left me wondering?

 

[perrdan86]

Is Jack Saunders gone, just the way he has written his post has left me wondering?

Wouldn't think so. Probably just end of season reflection/gratitude. He played really well, i thought.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Is Jack Saunders gone, just the way he has written his post has left me wondering?

I doubt it.
Why play him last game at all and go through all the hoopla if they were going to delist him.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Is Jack Saunders gone, just the way he has written his post has left me wondering?

Would be odd to give someone a debut only to delist them.