Expansion Lowest finals crowd since WW1...

[MVille Swan]

It wasn't that long ago (2008) that the Swans only pulled 19,000 to a final out at ANZ. They'd been in Sydney for 26 years at that point. Sure it was against North, and the weather wasn't great (but people don't know that when they buy their tickets beforehand). Did that mean that the AFL's investment in the Swans over decades was a waste of time. Of course not, that was one game. Saturday night was West Coast’s second consecutive away final and the effort and cost of flying east to support their team two weeks in a row would have been substantial. Out of the fifteen thousand crowd, it looked like there were three or four thousand Eagles supporters there and some would have been from Sydney, but full credit to those who made the trek from Perth. GWS Spotless games always have a very high ratio of kids in the crowd, and the 7:20 start time on Saturday night is not a family friendly time unlike the regular Spotless start time of 4:35. I think also finals ticket prices are on the high side for a region where support for the team and the code is still building. The people that
did go did get to see some great footy by the Giants.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Where were they this year these passionate fans?

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Well to be honest, they weren't that far short of what you had and they didn't even play

 

[Colonial]

Well to be honest, they weren't that far short of what you had and they didn't even play

Although you could say they weren't playing through all the dogs h/a games

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[Dam Wall Busted]

I just want the AFL to be transparent with these numbers, for their 'sellouts' this year in Canberra against the Doggies and Demons there were spare seats all over the place. And the membership figures are a farce, there is no way there are almost 15k paid up members in NSW.

 

[hutchy31]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...als-crowd-say-gws-giants-20170917-gyj8z3.html

Greater Western Sydney chief David Matthews has defended the Giants after the club drew the lowest finals crowd since World War I, dismissing the comparison as irrelevant.

Parramatta, with 42,187, drew almost three times the attendance down the road at ANZ Stadium for its NRL final with North Queensland while the Matildas attracted 15,089 for their international against Brazil in Penrith. The 14,865 who watched the Giants advance to their second consecutive preliminary final was was the lowest for a VFL/AFL final since 1916.

The turnout will be seen by critics as an indication of the expansion club's struggle to win fans but Matthews described that as "lazy analysis" as they were still a new entity.

Matthews pointed to the 11 per cent increase in home crowds at Spotless Stadium and a 37 per cent spike in membership this year as signs the club was growing.

"We've played 47 games at Spotless, we're six years' old. This is a region we're trying to build and grow. I couldn't care less about the Melbourne perspective that is applied to our crowd numbers," Matthews said.

"What is most important to me is they're growing and our membership growing.

"The trajectory is growing year on year. This is a generational 20- to 30- to 40-year investment from the AFL.

"Somebody said to me it's the lowest VFL/AFL crowd since WW1. We've won two finals since WW1, is that a relevant statistic as well?

"The Melbourne metrics that get applied to this club, people need to be patient and wait."

Matthews said the Giants' on-field success was helping the club expand.

"We're delivering back-to-back preliminary finals. That's the thing that will matter most to the future fan growth of the club," Matthews said.

"Are we winning games, are we capturing the attention of people in Sydney? The Swans have proven that. You have to be competing, you have to be winning, that's what we aim to do."

The scheduling of the match at night, instead of the club's preferred twilight slot, and the fact it was a second consecutive away final for the Eagles had a negative effect on the crowd, Matthews believed.

Matthews said the Giants, who entered the competition in 2012, should not be compared to Parramatta, who were founded in 1946.

"It's almost incomprehensible to me the success of the club is characterised to whether 14,000 or 18,000 turn up last night," Matthews said.

"Parramatta is arguably the biggest Sydney NRL club, they have a year out of the box and deliver for their fans and they get a crowd accordingly.

"That's generation after generation of building your supporter base."

Herein lies the problem. I don't disagree with Matthews here, and while I'm not a fan of GWS I think it's unfair to be criticising them for a low finals attendance when they are still trying to build the membership and casual supporter base.

But what he also mentions is that it's a 20/30/40 year plan by the AFL, and that sustained success is required for the club to continue to build across that period - which again I don't disagree with. The problem with that is if the governing body is invested in ensuring success for one (or more) teams within the competition they run, how can you have integrity within that competition?

I'm not bagging Giants fans or their CEO, they're doing what they can to build the club. My issue is with the AFL and the conflict between trying to build a business in a new market across decades while claiming that they're maintaining the integrity of the competition at the same time.

 

[B4Bear]

I do like how this thread has turned in a North bashing relocation thread, AGAIN.

****ing simpletons that can not address the issue at hand.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Herein lies the problem. I don't disagree with Matthews here, and while I'm not a fan of GWS I think it's unfair to be criticising them for a low finals attendance when they are still trying to build the membership and casual supporter base.

But what he also mentions is that it's a 20/30/40 year plan by the AFL, and that sustained success is required for the club to continue to build across that period - which again I don't disagree with. The problem with that is if the governing body is invested in ensuring success for one (or more) teams within the competition they run, how can you have integrity within that competition?

I'm not bagging Giants fans or their CEO, they're doing what they can to build the club. My issue is with the AFL and the conflict between trying to build a business in a new market across decades while claiming that they're maintaining the integrity of the competition at the same time.

It's a big risk.
What also could happen, if say GWS did go on a dynasty run, played in 8 GF's straight winning 6, we could see people from the footy states losing interest.
So imagine, 100-200 or more thousand people lose interest, for the sake of 30k members for GWS.

 

[wadistance]

i honestly think the breakdown of supporters would almost see the WCE Fans come out on top at that game. There's a LOT of fans living here in Sydney - you only need to go to the Light Brigade Hotel on a WCE match day to see that they come out at any chance

 

[Smartest Brain]

I do like how this thread has turned in a North bashing relocation thread, AGAIN.

******* simpletons that can not address the issue at hand.

A Melbourne team will 100% move to Tassie in the future, to deny this reality is foolish. It will be down to which team is going to fold first.

 

[Smartest Brain]

It's a big risk.
What also could happen, if say GWS did go on a dynasty run, played in 8 GF's straight winning 6, we could see people from the footy states losing interest.
So imagine, 100-200 or more thousand people lose interest, for the sake of 30k members for GWS.

Or it could increase interest in the game. The reality is most Sydney swans fans will have a soft spot for gws, the same way non hardcore's in WA and SA support both teams, just one more than the other. Losing 200k viewers from hardcore states and gaining 500k in Sydney would be ok to the afl.

It's only on bigfooty and the internet you find these people who hate every team but 1. Most have soft support for more than one team and in states with two sides it tends to be the other state side.

The biggest problem the afl has imo is that it is intentionally softening the game to make it more like a non contact sport. They don't understand a lot of the appeal of rough games is the roughness of it. They will be overtaken by other sports that give people what they want. MMA in particular is soaking up the males under 40 like no other.

If you take away the dust ups in the NHL you would kill the sport.

 

[Crawb]

I just want the AFL to be transparent with these numbers, for their 'sellouts' this year in Canberra against the Doggies and Demons there were spare seats all over the place. And the membership figures are a farce, there is no way there are almost 15k paid up members in NSW.

There were no spare seats at those games apart from a few corporates in Bradman stand and about a 100 or so on those orange Hill stands for whatever reason and the crowd on the hill was a fair size.

Manuka is hell on a Friday night so people were still coming into the ground at quarter time of that game. But legit packed otherwise from quarter time onwards.

 

[doggie dog]

Where were they this year these passionate fans?

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So an average home attendance of 31,473 not good enough to GWS average 13,196.

And here lies the problem why questions are being asked, GWS only increased the game attendance to 14,865(+1,669) for your last home game of the year which was a Semi final.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Were they giving away free tickets like they sometimes do, especially to visitors and 'new Australians'? Or anyone, really, since it's rugby heartland. Certainly would be a good strategy to build the code in western Sydney, the most multicultural region in Australia.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Or it could increase interest in the game. The reality is most Sydney swans fans will have a soft spot for gws, the same way non hardcore's in WA and SA support both teams, just one more than the other. Losing 200k viewers from hardcore states and gaining 500k in Sydney would be ok to the afl.

It's only on bigfooty and the internet you find these people who hate every team but 1. Most have soft support for more than one team and in states with two sides it tends to be the other state side.

The biggest problem the afl has imo is that it is intentionally softening the game to make it more like a non contact sport. They don't understand a lot of the appeal of rough games is the roughness of it. They will be overtaken by other sports that give people what they want. MMA in particular is soaking up the males under 40 like no other.

If you take away the dust ups in the NHL you would kill the sport.

I think you'd find most in WA and SA don't support both teams, even casual supporters. It's pretty divided lol. Some might have the other team as their second, but for even the average Joe who only sometimes watches on TV it's common to have an 'Eagles or anyone who's playing the Dockers' or vice versa attitude.

 

[B4Bear]

A Melbourne team will 100% move to Tassie in the future, to deny this reality is foolish. It will be down to which team is going to fold first.

And what does that have to do with the lowest finals crowd since WWI?

Absolutely nothing. Got it?

 

[_Mike_]

Things like Norf, Carltank, Essendrug, Richmong, Whoreforn, COLA, Failmantle, West Coke...and so on. We all know what they are.

These are prohibited terms on the main board, purely because they just turn discussion threads to muck.

Please stop using them, we are getting very sick of people continuing to ignore it. Those who continue to flout this rule will be getting cards and may even lose main board access- enough is enough.

This is not difficult to follow or comprehend folks.. stop it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Or it could increase interest in the game. The reality is most Sydney swans fans will have a soft spot for gws, the same way non hardcore's in WA and SA support both teams, just one more than the other. Losing 200k viewers from hardcore states and gaining 500k in Sydney would be ok to the afl.

It's only on bigfooty and the internet you find these people who hate every team but 1. Most have soft support for more than one team and in states with two sides it tends to be the other state side.

The biggest problem the afl has imo is that it is intentionally softening the game to make it more like a non contact sport. They don't understand a lot of the appeal of rough games is the roughness of it. They will be overtaken by other sports that give people what they want. MMA in particular is soaking up the males under 40 like no other.

The reality is, not all people love footy, even in these so called hardcore states there many thousands of people who couldn't give a rats about AFL.

 

[_Mike_]

Under 15k turned up to spotless tonight. Is this a worry or as expected?

Disappointing turn out, yes. A worry - no. If we're in 2030 and GWS are pulling crowds like that to a home final then I would be more inclined to agree it was a concerning stat for the AFL

 

[Rob]

To be fair, there aren't too many Giants fans yet and I would have gone to watch it if the AFL's finals ticket prices weren't so ridiculous.

I don't think ticket pries were too bad (first 2 weeks anyway), but there is something to be said about having different pricing for different markets. The cheapest tickets at Spotless on the weekend were $35, and they were limited to a few blocks behind the goals. Anything half decent was over $60, with premium seats at nearly $100. Across the road at the NRL at basically the same time, most tickets were priced at $25, plus they had a massive free ticket giveaway.

In the immediate term, it's not a great look. The AFL can get away with it elsewhere, but in West Sydney it's another story. 15k for the Giants is actually a pretty good crowd for them- to get more they'd need to attract people that don't otherwise go, and $200 + other stuff for a family is an expensive night for people that aren't ardent followers and can watch the game free on TV.
In the longer term it might work - devaluing your product can affect how people see it. If people get used to cheap tickets they might not ever pay much money for them in the future.

 

[Rob]

I just want the AFL to be transparent with these numbers, for their 'sellouts' this year in Canberra against the Doggies and Demons there were spare seats all over the place. And the membership figures are a farce, there is no way there are almost 15k paid up members in NSW.

You think it's just Sydney where membership numbers are a farce????

 

[telsor]

A Melbourne team will 100% move to Tassie in the future, to deny this reality is foolish. It will be down to which team is going to fold first.

Why?

 

[telsor]

You think it's just Sydney where membership numbers are a farce????

GWS makes NEGATIVE net revenue from members.

Where else is it that farcical?

 

[mr bagcroft]

The biggest fallacy in modern day AFL history, is that they just need GWS to be "successful" and everything will be ok. Well they are in for a rude shock!
Just because they win a flag, or even 3 , dosen't mean people are going to develop an interest in a sport they are otherwise not interested in! Will not happen, particularly to the point of becoming members and attending games.

Melbourne Victory won flags, and Melbourne Storm in the NRL in their second year. I couldnt give a rats arse about either of those codes and wouldnt open my blind if they were playing on my front lawn. GWS IS doomed to failure.

 

[Rob]

GWS makes NEGATIVE net revenue from members.

Where else is it that farcical?

Where clubs that claim 70,000+ members get 20k to a home game.

 

[WilloTree]

Sure, it's a disappointing figure. Is it relevant? no

The attendance figure has no impact on whether or not the expansion experiment is a success or failure.

GWS are in their salad days. They are financially backed by the AFL, have the most 1st round draft picks gifted to any club in history, an extended list, Salary Cap allowances and were given (amongst others) Cameron, Shiel, Trelour and Wilson without having to draft them.

The true indicator will the size of the crowd when all this wears off.