Luke Ball "Officially" Walks..

[SirJimi05]

Macaffer is virtually a straight swap and improvement on Lockyer. Lockyer is hardly damaging, he is a loose, uncontested ball winner who has below average speed. His goal kicking is a decent upside, something he benefits from being able to play so loose, but again, Macaffer would be a better shot for goal and has significantly better hands.
He has been a good servant to the club, but you are overrating his worth, he'll be phased out because players underneath him are overtaking him... simple.

Lockyer is easily replaced in a role we have an excess amount of guys to play in, we obviously lack a decent inside mid.

You'd be hard pressed to find a Collingwood supporter that would think we need Lockyer more than Ball.

Fair enough. You watch him more than me.

Still reckon you guys are overrating Ball though.

 

[brjafi]

if melbourne are dumb enough not to take him i hope richmond have the dummies guide on how to get a good player in the psd and take luke ball!

 

[Ron]

Because clubs need to reserve extra cap space for when the expansion clubs come in. How many players do you reckon are going to be seeking significant salary increases in the coming years. There has never been a more important time to manage cap space.

Not really. Because he would only be on a one year deal for that money.

The only way it would hurt us is because apparently we have backended some deals to make room for Ball.

But i am all for going out and taking a risk to try and get a flag.
I'd rather win a flag in the next couple of years and then run out of cap room and struggle, than to stay under the cap and never be a threat.

 

[SirJimi05]

if melbourne are dumb enough not to take him i hope richmond have the dummies guide on how to get a good player in the psd and take luke ball!

You might want to read it yourself?

 

[SirJimi05]

Not really. Because he would only be on a one year deal for that money.

The only way it would hurt us is because apparently we have backended some deals to make room for Ball.

But i am all for going out and taking a risk to try and get a flag.
I'd rather win a flag in the next couple of years and then run out of cap room and struggle, than to stay under the cap and never be a threat.

Sorry i thought i read that the terms were set to be 500k per season over 2 seasons. My bad.

Agree with your second point. Flags are too hard to come by these days. You would just want to hope that the risk pays off.

 

[Invigoration]

Fair enough. You watch him more than me.

Still reckon you guys are overrating Ball though.

By saying we'd/I'd take him over Lockyer you mean?

Ball fills a pretty obvious gap for us, at for the cost of pick 30 I think it is more than reasonable.
I don't think any Pies fans are expecting him to be the difference between a flag or not, but he is certainly an improvement and a decent acquisition.

Collingwood (the club) are obviously realistic about his worth though, we wouldn't be bent over at the trade table for him, so we while we think he is a good get, the guys that matter seemingly don't overrate him.

 

[Dylz48]

Can I ask why would Essendon want him he would prefer not to go to club he will cost them 500K a season and they have two very similar players to him in Watson and Welsh. Watson being a much better player and Welsh being a slight downgrade.

 

[Ron]

Sorry i thought i read that the terms were set to be 500k per season over 2 seasons. My bad.

I think the general consensus is that he will nominate 500k over 2 years, but nothing is official yet.

I imagine Ball will sit down with his management and Collingwood officials and put a price on his head that will give him the best chance of getting to the Pies.

 

[SirJimi05]

Can I ask why would Essendon want him he would prefer not to go to club he will cost them 500K a season and they have two very similar players to him in Watson and Welsh. Watson being a much better player and Welsh being a slight downgrade.

How are Watson and Welsh similiar?

I don't want Ball but there is no doubt that Essendon need another inside ball winner.

Hopefully Lonergan, Hocking or Myers can fill the void.

Welsh is a tagger not an inside midfielder.

 

[SirJimi05]

By saying we'd/I'd take him over Lockyer you mean?

No just an observation from various posts. Then again i reckon most supporters overrate him. The general consensus of BF was that Collingwood tried to screw over St Kilda at the trade table but they offered more than enough for a player of Ball's calibre.

 

[ragtop]

How are Watson and Welsh similiar?

I don't want Ball but there is no doubt that Essendon need another inside ball winner.

Hopefully Lonergan, Hocking or Myers can fill the void.

Welsh is a tagger not an inside midfielder.[/QUOT

 

[fpm84]

I couldn't care less where Ball ends up playing, as it won't be my club, but I have taken delight today in seeing St Kilda receive nothing for him.

Saints fans can't decide whether Ball is a dud, years past his best and with only a few years of AFL left in him - or a champion clearly not worth a second round pick and a talented young player, who I rate and would happily have at Geelong, in Goldsack.

I think Ball was treated very badly during trade week. Compare it with us and Prismall last year. Geelong offered him a deal, wanted to keep him, but he wanted regular senior opportunities (and presumably more money) elsewhere. Just like Ball. Geelong supporters were largely unhappy with only receiving #39 for him after he only nominated one club to be traded to, but we did the deal to a) treat Prismall with respect and b) get something in return. With #39 we picked up Steve Motlop who I am looking forward to seeing in 2010.

We also gave away a former captain, B&F winner and AA (just like Ball yet again) in King for virtually nothing, to a fellow top 4 side who we ended up squaring off against in a grand final within two years. Once again, this was predominately out of loyalty and respect to King to thank him for his service to the club.

Did St Kilda turn down the Collingwood trade because they didn't think the offer was sufficient, or because they didn't want to strengthen a fellow top 4 side in an area they are severely deficient?

 

[Dylz48]

I couldn't care less where Ball ends up playing, as it won't be my club, but I have taken delight today in seeing St Kilda receive nothing for him.

Saints fans can't decide whether Ball is a dud, years past his best and with only a few years of AFL left in him - or a champion clearly not worth a second round pick and a talented young player, who I rate and would happily have at Geelong, in Goldsack.

I think Ball was treated very badly during trade week. Compare it with us and Prismall last year. Geelong offered him a deal, wanted to keep him, but he wanted regular senior opportunities (and presumably more money) elsewhere. Just like Ball. Geelong supporters were largely unhappy with only receiving #39 for him after he only nominated one club to be traded to, but we did the deal to a) treat Prismall with respect and b) get something in return. With #39 we picked up Steve Motlop who I am looking forward to seeing in 2010.

We also gave away a former captain, B&F winner and AA (just like Ball yet again) in King for virtually nothing, to a fellow top 4 side who we ended up squaring off against in a grand final within two years. Once again, this was predominately out of loyalty and respect to King to thank him for his service to the club.

Did St Kilda turn down the Collingwood trade because they didn't think the offer was sufficient, or because they didn't want to strengthen a fellow top 4 side in an area they are severely deficient?

post of the thread sums up my thoughts perfectly

 

[paulcar]

Fpm84, beautifully spoken. It is pleasing to get a balanced response from a supporter who has no interest in either the saints or the pies. I went to the qualifying final with my wife and son and was surrounded by saints supporters. Gees did we cop flak. Not directed at us personally but denegrading comments about pie supporters in general, loud enough for us to hear. Their game plan was obvious. I went to both the 2007 and 2009 preliminary finals against the cats and shook the hands of my neighboring cat supporters at the end of the games and wished them well. I was so barracking for the catters on grand final day and watching them win was almost as pleasing as watching the pies win a flag. I know this thread is about Luke Ball but I just want to vent my spleen.

Apologies to SaintsSeptember. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with all he says, he attempts to provide balance in his arguments, which I respect.

 

[dunno4]

I'm disappointed that St Kilda will lose Luke Ball. A player of his ilk is a rare thing. He was one of my favourite players. A tough, courageous inside mid who got first hands on the ball or tackled the player who did. He is very clever, a natural leader and was at his best dishing the ball out through heavy traffic to clearance players from the guts. I wish him well in his future.

I hope he doesn't end up at Collingwood simply because they failed him once already by not offering up a suitable trade. Instead it seems they plotted for a way to get him cheaply (in terms of what they had to give up, not the money).

85% of all AFL fans would probably agree that if Collingwood end up drafting Luke Ball through the National Draft then this represents an unacceptable manipulation of the draft rules. It is much akin to what happened with Nick Stevens (which was thwarted by Port to Carlton's benefit). Why can't they simply pay a fair price for trades like every other club does?

I'm sorry but your arguement here is Ball is worth more than pick 25. But most of the people from 14 other clubs in this thread are saying that is indeed his fair price, not just Collingwood supporters. Very few people have him going before Essendon's pick at 24!!

Collingwood agreed with the Saints that he was worth more than pick 30 so did their best to get pick 25. Ok we might get him at 30 so only 5 places better. I don't think he comes without risk at 30 and if the stories are true he wants $500k then it becomes a massive gamble IMHO.

 

[dunno4]

I couldn't care less where Ball ends up playing, as it won't be my club, but I have taken delight today in seeing St Kilda receive nothing for him.

Saints fans can't decide whether Ball is a dud, years past his best and with only a few years of AFL left in him - or a champion clearly not worth a second round pick and a talented young player, who I rate and would happily have at Geelong, in Goldsack.

I think Ball was treated very badly during trade week. Compare it with us and Prismall last year. Geelong offered him a deal, wanted to keep him, but he wanted regular senior opportunities (and presumably more money) elsewhere. Just like Ball. Geelong supporters were largely unhappy with only receiving #39 for him after he only nominated one club to be traded to, but we did the deal to a) treat Prismall with respect and b) get something in return. With #39 we picked up Steve Motlop who I am looking forward to seeing in 2010.

We also gave away a former captain, B&F winner and AA (just like Ball yet again) in King for virtually nothing, to a fellow top 4 side who we ended up squaring off against in a grand final within two years. Once again, this was predominately out of loyalty and respect to King to thank him for his service to the club.

Did St Kilda turn down the Collingwood trade because they didn't think the offer was sufficient, or because they didn't want to strengthen a fellow top 4 side in an area they are severely deficient?

Geelong clearly look after their own and are to be commended for it. Worthy Premiers on all fronts.

 

[brjafi]

You might want to read it yourself?

ummmmm, YEAH NAH

 

[Bay Pie]

I'm surprised to a certain extent we couldn't talk him around but I'm not surprised he'd walk if the money elsewhere was significantly more than what St Kilda was offering.

Luke's a quality bloke and he's given everything he had to achieve success at St Kilda. Understandable too that he'd have taken some of the decisions this year as a slight.

From Luke's perspective I hope he does get to play at Collingwood. I'm in no doubt the attraction is Nathan Buckley and I'm in no doubt Bucks would be one pushing hard for him.

True about Bucks. I recall he wrote about 3/4 years ago he thought Luke Ball had the potential to be better then both Hodge & Judd, perhaps due to his leadership qualities. Unfortunately injuries have cruelled any chance at that.

I couldn't care less where Ball ends up playing, as it won't be my club, but I have taken delight today in seeing St Kilda receive nothing for him.

Saints fans can't decide whether Ball is a dud, years past his best and with only a few years of AFL left in him - or a champion clearly not worth a second round pick and a talented young player, who I rate and would happily have at Geelong, in Goldsack.

I think Ball was treated very badly during trade week. Compare it with us and Prismall last year. Geelong offered him a deal, wanted to keep him, but he wanted regular senior opportunities (and presumably more money) elsewhere. Just like Ball. Geelong supporters were largely unhappy with only receiving #39 for him after he only nominated one club to be traded to, but we did the deal to a) treat Prismall with respect and b) get something in return. With #39 we picked up Steve Motlop who I am looking forward to seeing in 2010.

We also gave away a former captain, B&F winner and AA (just like Ball yet again) in King for virtually nothing, to a fellow top 4 side who we ended up squaring off against in a grand final within two years. Once again, this was predominately out of loyalty and respect to King to thank him for his service to the club.

Did St Kilda turn down the Collingwood trade because they didn't think the offer was sufficient, or because they didn't want to strengthen a fellow top 4 side in an area they are severely deficient?

Quote of the thread by an impartial.

FWIW, I have no problem with St.Kilda not accepting the trade deal. That is their perogative. It is very disappointing to here St.Kilda supporters slag off a guy who has bleed for their club and during trade week, it was reported that both clubs understood that he would be moving clubs for less money. He'll get more money now to ensure he gets to hisa preferred destination. I'm happy to pay him that as he is taking a big risk.

I would presume that Ball will put a price on his head like $800,000 year 1 (Rumours abound that the Pies have been working last 2 weeks backending contracts), $200,000 year 2 & year 3. $1.2 million over 3 years will make it harder for a club like the Lions to get him if they want him. Agree that his contract could effect other players contracts in the future.

 

[greenred]

I would presume that Ball will put a price on his head like $800,000 year 1 (Rumours abound that the Pies have been working last 2 weeks backending contracts), $200,000 year 2 & year 3. $1.2 million over 3 years will make it harder for a club like the Lions to get him if they want him. Agree that his contract could effect other players contracts in the future.

Can Ball be this specific with his terms and state the amount he wants each year, or would he have to specify $1.2 million over 3 years?

 

[Vacuous Space]

I'm sorry but your arguement here is Ball is worth more than pick 25.

There's no way you can claim pick 25 was a fair price. Collingwood have done everything in their power to prevent a market value being established. First Ball demands a trade to Collingwood so they don't have to outbid anyone. Now they're trying to get the interested teams above them to get out of the way by putting a prohibitive price on his head. If he were like any other draftee and able to go anywhere, there's no way he'd make it to Collingwood's pick.

While I'd obviously rather have pick 25 than pick 64, I'm glad my club has taken the stance it has. Collingwood could have easily got a trade done in trade week but jealously guarded any players that weren't surplus crap. We don't need their deadwood and we don't need pick 25. It's not going to make or break our club.

 

[suedehead]

Saints fans can't decide whether Ball is a dud, years past his best and with only a few years of AFL left in him - or a champion clearly not worth a second round pick and a talented young player, who I rate and would happily have at Geelong, in Goldsack.

It's classic Bigfooty. North fans were exactly the same with Josh Gibson: "He's really crap and wouldn't make the team in two years' time...but we demand a first round pick!!1!"

 

[Teak_Pies]

LOL at the start of trade Luke Ball was talked up to be a champion by saints fans and when he nominates for the National draft all of a sudden he is a plodder and can't kick and can't do anything.

 

[Wally Carter]

It's classic Bigfooty. North fans were exactly the same with Josh Gibson: "He's really crap and wouldn't make the team in two years' time...but we demand a first round pick!!1!"

No one stated that Gibson was "crap".

However, wouldn't it be amazing if North picked up Luke Ball with pick 25?

 

[Vacuous Space]

LOL at the start of trade Luke Ball was talked up to be a champion by saints fans...

I think you're exaggerating. In any case, fans always overrate their own. Some Pies fans declared that Goldsack would be an instant upgrade on Raph Clarke despite the fact Goldsack average less contested ball, uncontested ball, marks, spoils, bounces and tackles than Raph Clarke while averaging more gametime. Obviously this phenomenon is not exclusive to us.

A top-20 pick or somebody like Brown or Everitt seems pretty reasonable for a guy of Ball's calibre. We weren't asking for the moon, we just wanted a reasonable return for a reasonable player.

 

[Falchoon]

Can I ask why would Essendon want him he would prefer not to go to club he will cost them 500K a season and they have two very similar players to him in Watson and Welsh. Watson being a much better player and Welsh being a slight downgrade.

Essendon are a 1 man team, stop Watson feeding it out to the fleet footed runners and you stop Essendon. Anyone who even looks like they could be an inside midfielder should be a target for the Bombres