Luke Ball "Officially" Walks..

[Gilbo19]

A trade ALWAYS improves your list if losing a player for nothing is the alternative.

I can honestly say that right now, I wouldn't want Tyson Goldsack at St Kilda for free. So he adds nothing to our list whatsoever, wouldn't even be there.

I would love to have pick 30 instead of pick 64 however it really wont make much of a difference, especialy because we already are spoilt for choice when it comes to young depth, any player we take at that pick is likely to be behind not only our starting 22 but also - Peake, Geary, Steven, Heyne, Lynch, Stanley, McEvoy, Gwilt, Eddy, Dempster etc. etc.

I will use the example I used earlier in the thread.

Say next year Scott Pendlebury decides he wants out of Collingwood and only wants to go to St Kilda. St Kilda refuse to budge during trade week and will only offer Raph Clarke and pick 48 for Pendlebury. Pendles informs the club that he will go into the draft if not traded.

Are you saying in your heart of hearts you would take pick 48 and Raph Clarke for Scott Pendlebury?

 

[Nankervis brothers]

We've got two positions HBF and WING but we only had one player that we wanted for those two positions, Goddard. So we needed to recruit either a winger or a HBF and Goddard would play the position that we didn't acquire.

I don't believe that Collingwood did anything wrong, If I was in Collingwood's position I wouldn't have offered much more than 30 and Goldsack either. But I don't think St Kilda should be expected to make a trade that doesn't improve our list whatsoever just because an ungreatful mercenary wants out.

Bolded part seems a bit harsh to me. He is not getting the game time he believes he deserves, and the Saints aren't going to guarantee anything different next year (which is fair enough). However, other clubs will guarantee him this, or so it appears.

Besides that, there are more than likely things going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. For instance, he may not have a good relationship with Lyon, to the point he doesn't want to play under him anymore. Speculation, to be sure, but he wouldn't be the first player to clash heads with a coach and want out.

 

[Moo]

Mighty big gauntlet to run.

Do you think Collingwood would still have been willing to pay pick 14 for Jolly on Wednesday if they got Cox for pick 30 on Tuesday?

I would - quality players are quality players.

..... until Bomber, Frank, Brian and Balmey started insisting upon respect from and to players who do the right thing.

Bomber mmmmmm - he has given them respect at the trading table, respect outside of that is very debatable.

.... and moreover Peake's presence is not greatly diminishing anyone's value.

Other than the people who have to play with him.

Graham Polak, Pick 4.

He was an upgrade pick you got Polly, we got Tarrant and Pies got Reid/Medhurst. You mob are a distant 3rd on that deal.

 

[mattys123]

because we already are spoilt for choice when it comes to young depth, any player we take at that pick is likely to be behind not only our starting 22 but also - Peake, Geary, Steven, Heyne, Lynch, Stanley, McEvoy, Gwilt, Eddy, Dempster etc. etc.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Sorry had to laugh, one thing StKilda doesnt have is "young depth".

 

[Gilbo19]

Bolded part seems a bit harsh to me. He is not getting the game time he believes he deserves, and the Saints aren't going to guarantee anything different next year (which is fair enough). However, other clubs will guarantee him this, or so it appears.

Besides that, there are more than likely things going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. For instance, he may not have a good relationship with Lyon, to the point he doesn't want to play under him anymore. Speculation, to be sure, but he wouldn't be the first player to clash heads with a coach and want out.

He has been told that he is a member of the starting 22, however there are issues that he needs to work on. Luke has been saying all year that being dropped was the kick up the arse that he needed, obviously he was just pay lip service.

 

[EOP26]

Geelong 1 - Ablett
WCE/Carlton 2 - Judd
Geelong 3 - Bartel
Hawthorn 4 - Hodge

Nothing to do with Ball IMO...

The facts as they stand are

Ball Walks goes into the ND - Which team pick him is anyone guess...
St'kilda gets nothing for him - Pick 30 and Goldsack is better than nothing.

Did the saints treat Ball with the respect he deserve?

 

[Zahki]

He has been told that he is a member of the starting 22, however there are issues that he needs to work on. Luke has been saying all year that being dropped was the kick up the arse that he needed, obviously he was just pay lip service.

I think it's fair to assume by now that there are personal issues between Ball and Lyon. Ball getting dropped is probably a symptom of that, not a cause.

 

[Gilbo19]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Sorry had to laugh, one thing StKilda doesnt have is "young depth".

Lol, you're kidding right?

You didn't see the game where Sandringham beat Hawthorn down at Tassie?

It's also far more humorous that it's coming from a Collingwood supporter...

All we ever hear is how good Reid is going to be, or how good Blight is going to be etc. etc.

If you don't consider the likes of Jarryn Geary, Jack Steven, Ben McEvoy and Robert Eddy to be good young depth players then you either don't know who they are or know SFA about footy.

Any one of those four players could step up to AFL and play a role each and every week. Admittedly they're not ready to be core players yet but the still have a lot of upside.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Are you saying in your heart of hearts you would take pick 48 and Raph Clarke for Scott Pendlebury?

Come up with a believeable scenario and I'll respond accordingly.

 

[witsend]

We've got two positions HBF and WING but we only had one player that we wanted for those two positions, Goddard. So we needed to recruit either a winger or a HBF and Goddard would play the position that we didn't acquire.

I don't believe that Collingwood did anything wrong, If I was in Collingwood's position I wouldn't have offered much more than 30 and Goldsack either. But I don't think St Kilda should be expected to make a trade that doesn't improve our list whatsoever just because an ungreatful mercenary wants out.

Are you serious??
That boy played his heart out for Sty Kilda when he was clearly crippled by OP and other injuries whilst being prematurely burdened with the captaincy. And what thanks does he get?
"Screw ya Luke..you're a fringe player now, and your heart, loyalty and endeavour mean NOTHING to us."
So he decides he would actually like to play at AFL level as he should and gets called a mercenary for his trouble when the club he bled for won't facilitate a trade like Geelong did for Steven King, when Kingy wanted to move on? We GAVE you Steven King for practically nothing, out of respect for a former Captain of our club who felt he had more footy in him than we did. We may have misjudged his capacity to play for the subsequent season or two but at least we didn't stand in his way.
Not ruthless, St Kilda...gutless....

 

[Haydos]

Woosha will pick him up before MM can and then admit "We took him for teh lulz"

 

[warrior_4]

Ok let's look at the last 50 years then, as it is so important to you.

Premierships:
Collingwood = 1
Aints = 1

Wooden Spoons:
Collingwood = 2
Aints = 8

Average Ladder Position:
Collingwood = 6
Aints = 8

Wins:
Collingwood = 591
Aints = 432

Collingwood playing against the Aints:
Collingwood = 55
Aints = 31

Should I continue?

We can just concetrate on the last 20 years if you wish?

i thought everything was measured in flags ..looks like you guys are in the same boat as us..not how many games u win (look at us this season) or anything like that...we are equal over the last 50 years

 

[morgoth]

Lol, you're kidding right?

You didn't see the game where Sandringham beat Hawthorn down at Tassie?

It's also far more humorous that it's coming from a Collingwood supporter...

All we ever hear is how good Reid is going to be, or how good Blight is going to be etc. etc.

If you don't consider the likes of Jarryn Geary, Jack Steven, Ben McEvoy and Robert Eddy to be good young depth players then you either don't know who they are or know SFA about footy.

Any one of those four players could step up to AFL and play a role each and every week. Admittedly they're not ready to be core players yet but the still have a lot of upside.

Not as humerous as hearing about the wonderful Clarke brothers for years. At least Lyon offed one of them, probably the wrong one but one is better than none.

 

[Gilbo19]

The facts as they stand are

Ball Walks goes into the ND - Which team pick him is anyone guess...
St'kilda gets nothing for him - Pick 30 and Goldsack is better than nothing.

Did the saints treat Ball with the respect he deserve?

After getting Lovett and Peake we don't want Goldsack, is that so hard to understand?

Pick 30 would have been nice, however strengthening Collingwood's chances in 2010 weaken St Kilda's chances, and IMO the inclusion of Luke Ball into Collingwood's midfield decreases St Kilda's chance of future premierships more than the upgrade of pick 64 for pick 30 would increase them.

As for Luke Ball, what respect does he deserve.

Ross Lyon said anyone who is not up to the challenge will be moved on, he didn't say they'd be gift wrapped and sent where ever they want to go. Luke Ball has been moved on, therefore Lyon stuck to his word.

Luke Ball was paid an estimated 600k this year, the fact is he is a 300k player at best. When he was offer a 3 year deal (despite big question marks over his body) he declined as he was seeking greener pastures.

He was told he was a member of our best 22, so it's not about getting better opportunities, if he wanted more game time he would have to earn it like every player on the list.

So yes Luke Ball was treated with the respect that he deserved, he wanted to leave, so we treaded him as the commodity he turned himself into, unfortunately we couldn't find a single deal that would improve our list therefore goodbye.

Think about it this way, your local team just lost the grand final and one of your best players, who you believe to be one of your good mates decides he wants to go to another club to get paid a bit of money, how would you feel?, would you be doing everything in your power to make sure that he got to where he wanted to go.

 

[witsend]

Bomber mmmmmm - he has given them respect at the trading table, respect outside of that is very debatable.

You don't respect a Dual Premiership Coach who built his side from the ground up, nearly lost his job in the meantime but stuck to his guns to be proved right?
And you follow Fremantle?
Now I've seen everything!!

 

[The Panther]

i thought everything was measured in flags ..looks like you guys are in the same boat as us..not how many games u win (look at us this season) or anything like that...we are equal over the last 50 years

History didn't start 50 years ago.
Collingwood have 14 Premierships, St. Kilda 1.

 

[Gilbo19]

Come up with a believeable scenario and I'll respond accordingly.

That is a believable scenario, an AA player being traded for a fringe player with no real upside and a worthless draft pick. Imagine at the end of 2008 if you heard Collingwood would offer Goldsack and pick 30 for Luke Ball, you would be laughing your head off at the idea of St Kilda even considering it.

Are you serious??
That boy played his heart out for Sty Kilda when he was clearly crippled by OP and other injuries whilst being prematurely burdened with the captaincy. And what thanks does he get?
"Screw ya Luke..you're a fringe player now, and your heart, loyalty and endeavour mean NOTHING to us."
So he decides he would actually like to play at AFL level as he should and gets called a mercenary for his trouble when the club he bled for won't facilitate a trade like Geelong did for Steven King, when Kingy wanted to move on? We GAVE you Steven King for practically nothing, out of respect for a former Captain of our club who felt he had more footy in him than we did. We may have misjudged his capacity to play for the subsequent season or two but at least we didn't stand in his way.
Not ruthless, St Kilda...gutless....

He played his heart out, but was it for the club or was it for himself?
We didn't burden him with the captaincy, we gave him the honour of the captaincy.
What did he get from us? about 600k and the opportunity to play in a GF this year alone.
Put yourself in the same situation with Joel Selwood and tell me you'd trade him for pick 30 and Goldsack.

Not as humerous as hearing about the wonderful Clarke brothers for years. At least Lyon offed one of them, probably the wrong one but one is better than none.

Uhhh, reading not your strong suit? most people (especially saints fans) couldn't stand the Clarke brothers. Others saw them for what they were, GOP's with a little bit of X-Factor... if we're going to talk about over rated youngsters lets start talking about Dale Thomas...

 

[Gilbo19]

History didn't start 50 years ago.
Collingwood have 14 Premierships, St. Kilda 1.

Actually Collingwood have 1, St Kilda have 0.

VFL was a different competition...

 

[Parallel Andy]

i thought everything was measured in flags ..looks like you guys are in the same boat as us..not how many games u win (look at us this season) or anything like that...we are equal over the last 50 years

Very excited by the 50-year period you guys?
How bout equality in the last 20 years then?
Or doesn't that work for you?

 

[Gilbo19]

You don't respect a Dual Premiership Coach who built his side from the ground up, nearly lost his job in the meantime but stuck to his guns to be proved right?
And you follow Fremantle?
Now I've seen everything!!

As much as I hate everything Geelong because of the GF heartbreak, I must admit that is an excellent point... it's hard to believe how anyone couldn't respect Bomber... building a list from scratch isn't as easy as it's made out to be on here, especially without any top 5 picks

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That is a believable scenario, an AA player being traded for a fringe player with no real upside and a worthless draft pick. Imagine at the end of 2008 if you heard Collingwood would offer Goldsack and pick 30 for Luke Ball, you would be laughing your head off at the idea of St Kilda even considering it....

Ball isnt in your best 22.
You said it yourself.

30 aint worthless, by the way. We got Beams last year with 29. Crows got Tipppet in 2006 with 32. the year before StKilda got Gilbert with 32. Adcock, Rosa, Symes, Merrett, Roberts-Thompson and Campbell Brown were all drafted at about 30ish

 

[Hanis]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Sorry had to laugh, one thing StKilda doesnt have is "young depth".

HAHAHA keep telling yourself that numbnuts

Losing Luke will now only improve our side - he has been a fringe player for the last 2 years and we will not have a problem in replacing him with a younger, fitter more explosive player - Armitage, Geary or Steven who have all been knocking on the door

As for getting nothing for him it has only freed up space in our salary cap which we can use next year - Goldsack and pick 30 will not make a difference to our season next year so seriously why fill that salary cap space with a player we do not want

It seems Luke is craving mediocrity and there is no doubt he will now find it - what makes me really laugh are opposition supporters that think he will be the difference in helping them win a Grand Final -just insanely mindblowingly delusional!!!!!

 

[damochandler]

he might not even get picked up. i hope he does. this year he looked like a run down old man. i still think he is carrying op

 

[Gilbo19]

Ball isnt in your best 22.
You said it yourself.

Are you sure?

I don't recall that.

I said he wasn't in our best 20, but I thought he and Raph Clarke were the last two players picked in our starting team.

Not having a go at you, I could have made a mistake, but I don't remember.

For the record, Luke would currently be in our starting 22, however the difference between Ball and Armo is very minimal.

But you still haven't answered my scenario.

Pendles wants out, pick 48 and raph is all you can get, would you rather take Raph and 48 or let Pendles walk out... I would have thought it's a pretty simple question...

 

[ragtop]

so to summarize the feeling of stkilda posters....................ball is a mercenary hack with no future and peake is a superstar.