Luke Ball "Officially" Walks..

[Hanis]

I responded to you claim that Goldsack and pick 30 was useless. You never claimed that it became useless, you implied in your post that it was never of any use.

Seemingly you jumped to the conclusion.

My supposed implication was all in your mind to suit your own argument.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

2010 is likely to see the top 4 spots hotly contested by StK, Geelong, C Wood & W Bdogs.

True but many of the lower ranked teams will pass on Ball simply because they wont see him as being part of their next premiership push. And at 500k a year if you dont see a player like him playing a key role in winning a flag in the near future, you wont touch him.

There is every chance he could slip to Collingwood (or to any other number of clubs who legitimately see themselves as premiers in the next 2-3 years).

In trade week the ONLY list you can worry about is your own. If you're worrying about other teams lists instead of your own you have taken your eyes off the ball and you will make trading errors.

Sydney had no qualms about losing Jolly to Collingwood - despite the fact that it might hand the Pies a flag - they simply knuckled down and worked trade week even harder to find a replacement. Sydney will deal with anybody. They simply have the best attitude in the game in terms of player trades.

 

[didak04]

Pick 30 and Goldsack is nothing to the Saints - the salary cap space that it would have filled would be better kept clear for either another decent recruit or improving the contract of another up coming player from our strong squad

My supposed implication was all in your mind to suit your own argument.

Looks pretty straight forward to me.

Can only respond to what you put out there.

Obviously your clubs and your own opinions on Goldsack and pick 30's worth differ.

 

[Rise_up_Stiffy]

Adelaide @ 29?

 

[Saintland]

Pendles is our best player at 22 years of age. Ball, by your admission, is your 21st or 22nd best player at 25 years of age.

Therefore, as you can see, it's a pretty stupid question.

A simple question would be whether we'd take pick 30 + Clarke for Fraser (vice captain, former no.1 pick, etc) rather than seeing him walk for nothing. In which case, the answer is yes.

Ball is better than Clarke, Dempster and Milne and at least two others. He is definitely in the 18!

 

[Gilbo19]

MDC is right again champ.

You are using a poor hypothetical to back up your piss weak argument.

This about Luke Ball, anyway you look at it.

Scott Pendlebury is obviously worth plenty more than pick 48+ Raph Clarke.

Luke Ball is not worth more than pick 30+player or pick 25.

Saints were offered market value for the player. Pies did not bully the Saints. The Saints bullied Luke Ball.

The only stance Rossy Lyon took was to continue to bend Luke over, without the aid of some vaseline out of spite.

If he manages to end up at Collingwood, I bet Rossy Lyon will look a tad bit silly.

Another Collingwood fan embarrassing themselves, the hypothetical had nothing to do with Luke Ball, but you along with the rest of your mates can't comprehend that...

The premise I am challenging is that it is always better to get something than nothing, which as any non Collingwood supporter can recognise as exactly what happened in this scenario.

Although it is clear that I have been by far the stupidest person in this thread, simply for forgetting the age old rule - "Don't argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time." I was naive to think that there was a Collingwood supporter on this site with the ability to understand the simplest analogies.

On a completely different topic, do players get to nominate their salary in the National Draft?

I thought all draftees were on a set wage? I would assume that as soon as he arrives at Collingwood they give him a new contract. But what if a team like Brisbane decides to pick him, surely they'd only have to pay him a draftees wages? I've never really known the rules involved with putting a price on your head when it comes to drafts...

All I know if Michael Voss is willing to take Xavier he would cream over the thought of securing Ball, and having him on a first year players wages would eliminate any salary cap problems...

 

[Moo]

Yes, often, relevance?

A change of mind is irrelevant. A number of people on here seem to think that what Collingwood offered (pick 30 and Goldsack) was insulting.

I'm simply reinforcing the fact that it was St Kilda who considered this trade scenario equitable.

I agree it was not insulting, inadequate but not insulting.

 

[pies75]

You could possibly miss both if the bombers pick Ball @26 and the lions go with the local lad Thomas @27.

then we'll take charlie pickering, or continue the irish experiment with jimeoin.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Would be funny if a cashed up Carlton swoop on him before the Pies get to use their pick, this board would go into melt down ala Nick Stevens a few years back

 

[Hanis]

Geary will never be of Ball's standard.

and you can say that for sure???

Geary played some cracking games earlier this year and he has yet to play full time in the mid-field where he played most of his junior career alongside Joel Selwood

with more game time in the seniors especially rotating thru the mid-field will undoubtedly see him improve significantly

One thing is for sure is that current day Ball will never be of Ball's standards

Armitage looks the goods. What about the rest?

Yes Armitage does look the goods and as far as I am aware Ball is only one player therefore we only need one player to take his spot - I guess Armitage will do!!

As for the others Jack Steven was bottom aged when recruited 2 years ago and has been compared to Garry Hocking by some pundits. He improved significantly this year in the VFL and played some great games and will no doubt get a chance next year

It's senior players keeping him out, not younger players coming through. It's the same players he has been playing with since he started that are keeping him out.

If there were some senior players keeping him out then great because coupling that with our young guys coming through and the fact that we only lost 3 games all year then we are in a better position than i thought - thanks for pointing that out!!!

Look at your list!!!

There are not many young players with high probability of replacing him in the next two years, which is why you wanted to keep him.

I have looked at our list and it looks absolutely great

The fact that you are so desperate to get him would lead me to believe that you should look at your list!!!!

I have no idea? I live and breath footy and I 'know' that you will not replace him over the next two years unless some freekish miracle happens where someone such as Geary suddenly undergoes metamorhisis.

Sorry but from your above rant you "know" nothing about our list

I think you should get out of your little black and white paralllel universe once in a while and take a unbiased look around

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

On a completely different topic, do players get to nominate their salary in the National Draft?

I thought all draftees were on a set wage? I would assume that as soon as he arrives at Collingwood they give him a new contract. But what if a team like Brisbane decides to pick him, surely they'd only have to pay him a draftees wages? I've never really known the rules involved with putting a price on your head when it comes to drafts......

An established senior player can put any price on his head that he wants.

If you dont put a price on your head you will get minimum wage.

I dont think new players are permitted to nominate salaries, as the AFL deems this as having too many potential draft tampering risks. All new draftees get set wages for the first two years ( I think).

 

[Gilbo19]

An established senior player can put any price on his head that he wants.

If you dont put a price on your head you will get minimum wage.

I dont think new players are permitted to nominate salaries, as the AFL deems this as having too many potential draft tampering risks. All new draftees get set wages for the first two years ( I think).

Cool, thanks.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

If Collingwood pay Ball $1M over two years, they are getting seriously ripped off. He's a good player, but worth nowhere near that.

Only ripped off if the deal makes Collingwood miss out on another player who can command that sort of salary becoming available next year. Doesn't happen that often, so isn't really a rip-off as such.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Would be funny if a cashed up Carlton swoop on him before the Pies get to use their pick, this board would go into melt down ala Nick Stevens a few years back

Cant see why there would be a meltdown, any number of clubs could draft Luke Ball before Collingwood's first pick at 30.

But to take a risk to draft Ball with his dodgy injury history and on a massive salary, you'd want to be pretty confident that you are only a year or three away from winning a flag. Cant see Ball fitting into Carltons time horizon, but if they decide to take him, fair enough.

 

[Wally Carter]

Lol @ the Collingwood vultures.

You haven't got him yet.

 

[Squizz]

If there were some senior players keeping him out then great because coupling that with our young guys coming through and the fact that we only lost 3 games all year then we are in a better position than i thought - thanks for pointing that out!!!

nice try, but I think you were right the first time.

Armitage, Miles, Eddy, Geary, Gwilt, McEvoy and Steven were the ones pushing for a game - rather than Goose, Leigh Fisher and Begley (with Max and Ball playing more VFL than most would have expected). Lynch would be expected to join the list of younger players pushing for a spot in the 22.

 

[FIGJAM]

Lol @ the Collingwood vultures.

Worst case scenario is we've upped our picks by one and seen Ball tell Toss Lyin' where to go!

 

[didak04]

Another Collingwood fan embarrassing themselves, the hypothetical had nothing to do with Luke Ball, but you along with the rest of your mates can't comprehend that...

The premise I am challenging is that it is always better to get something than nothing, which as any non Collingwood supporter can recognise as exactly what happened in this scenario.

Although it is clear that I have been by far the stupidest person in this thread, simply for forgetting the age old rule - "Don't argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time." I was naive to think that there was a Collingwood supporter on this site with the ability to understand the simplest analogies.

You are attempting to prove your point with a totally ludicrous, stupid scenario that's your main problem.

 

[hellfire]

Another Collingwood fan embarrassing themselves, the hypothetical had nothing to do with Luke Ball, but you along with the rest of your mates can't comprehend that...

The premise I am challenging is that it is always better to get something than nothing, which as any non Collingwood supporter can recognise as exactly what happened in this scenario.

I was naive to think that there was a Collingwood supporter on this site with the ability to understand the simplest analogies.

You should submit your theory to a prominent university, I'm sure they'd be stoked at your revelation that one's football club is an accurate gauge for intelligence. Revolutionary stuff...

...Or maybe you're just bitter about Ball and trying to vent through personal attacks. I for one am deeply offended when some anonymous Internet-alias assaults my intelligence indirectly through a football club generalisation... your ploy is working.

But seriously, people need to get over this issue until draft day. The only fact is that the Saints have lost Ball for nothing, the rest is speculation, so relax everybody.

 

[hurls22]

True but many of the lower ranked teams will pass on Ball simply because they wont see him as being part of their next premiership push. And at 500k a year if you dont see a player like him playing a key role in winning a flag in the near future, you wont touch him.

There is every chance he could slip to Collingwood (or to any other number of clubs who legitimately see themselves as premiers in the next 2-3 years).

In trade week the ONLY list you can worry about is your own. If you're worrying about other teams lists instead of your own you have taken your eyes off the ball and you will make trading errors.

Sydney had no qualms about losing Jolly to Collingwood - despite the fact that it might hand the Pies a flag - they simply knuckled down and worked trade week even harder to find a replacement. Sydney will deal with anybody. They simply have the best attitude in the game in terms of player trades.

Only thing sadder in Collingwood fatting over Jolly (damaging player!) is them thinking Essendon will not get Ball at 24 or 26.

 

[pie time]

i was thinking to myself before about this yes im a collingwood supporter and all but what did st kilda really expect for ball he was obviously mistreated and when your own coach says if you want out you will get it why not give a former captain that bleed each week for your club what he wants he served you 8 good years and use didnt need him anymore why couldnt use just part ways insted of insulting our supporters why dont use insult yourself for letting a no 2 pick go for nothing use should of just parted ways at trade week insted of going back on your word and please dont say use didnt because lovett and peake play 2 very different roles if use didnt ever notice but can i just say why wouldnt use just take goldsack and pick 30 and use goldsack for when a player gets hurt its not as if luke ball is the chris judd of the league did use expect it all and little more for a player that had no intention of being at the club and was obviously being treated like nothing before use rip on us magpie supporters maybe use should take a good hard look at how use are treating your players

 

[Moo]

Lol @ the Collingwood vultures.

You haven't got him yet.

They won't care - there only concern is that Luke is happy and content wherever he should land.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

There is a very strong chance that Essendon will get Ball.

They are exactly the sort of club that will over-rate their list and draw the conclusion that Luke Ball fits their premiership window.

StKilda and Collingwood will be very very pleased that if they cant get Luke Ball themselves, that he'd end up at a place like Essendon where he'd most likely be of little damage to the competition.

 

[Teak_Pies]

Who knows what goes on in Ross Lyon's little brain
Why did Ross Lyon only give Luke Ball 50% game time in the grand final?
Why did Raph Clarke play in the grand final??
He is a bloody idiot

 

[Wally Carter]

Only thing sadder in Collingwood fatting over Jolly (damaging player!) is them thinking Essendon will not get Ball at 24 or 26.

I agree, he is a tailor made fit for the Bombers.

However, if he gets realistic about his price he could find himself at North around pick 21 or 25.

Anyone that actually pays him a multiple year/$500k contract is reeking of desperation.