Manchester United: Where to next?

[Bojan KantKick]

Unless it's a stadium for multiple uses, I don't believe in using public funds for one team

I think the vast majority have this view. It is very much an American sports franchise move. If public funds are used there will have to be significant justifications made for it you'd imagine.

 

[Zidane98]

I think the vast majority have this view. It is very much an American sports franchise move. If public funds are used there will have to be significant justifications made for it you'd imagine.

My understanding is public funds are being sought to develop the surrounding area. The stadium itself will be privately funded.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Unless it's a stadium for multiple uses, I don't believe in using public funds for one team

What about Australian sport. Plenty of grounds around the country for one team's use funded by government money.
AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, Cricket.

 

[jod23]

What about Australian sport. Plenty of grounds around the country for one team's use funded by government money.
AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, Cricket.

Yeah but correct me if im wrong, these clubs dont own the stadiums, they just play in them. Anfield is owned by Liverpool etc...

 

[pantskyle]

My understanding is public funds are being sought to develop the surrounding area. The stadium itself will be privately funded.

Seems correct and a good plan.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yeah but correct me if im wrong, these clubs dont own the stadiums, they just play in them. Anfield is owned by Liverpool etc...

Own v use is beside the point imo.
The sticking point appeared to be public funds used for one club/team.

That's rather common here is it not?

 

[jod23]

Own v use is beside the point imo.
The sticking point appeared to be public funds used for one club/team.

That's rather common here is it not?

I dont know but there is obviously a huge difference between owning the stadium and not owning it.

 

[moomba]

Got to remember that United are a Cayman Island registered business owned by Americans and someone based in Monaco to avoid paying UK tax.

Maybe a partnership in the development of the surrounding area. But I think direct funding that benefits a non UK business in an era of austerity wouldn't happen.

 

[Bradesmaen]

What about Australian sport. Plenty of grounds around the country for one team's use funded by government money.
AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, Cricket.

Which I don't agree with.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Which I don't agree with.

Well I'd say you're very out of touch.
Not a single sporting team in Australia has the capital to build a stadium for itself. Not one.

 

[Planet14]

What about Australian sport. Plenty of grounds around the country for one team's use funded by government money.
AFL, NRL, Super Rugby, Cricket.

No, just Geelong.

 

[Misher]

No, just Geelong.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No, just Geelong.

List of sports venues in Australia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not true but love the mention.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Well I'd say you're very out of touch.
Not a single sporting team in Australia has the capital to build a stadium for itself. Not one.

And 99% of them don't own or have a hold on the stadium. They are ground shared between cricket, Australian Rules, Rugby, Concerts etc.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

And 99% of them don't own or have a hold on the stadium. They are ground shared between cricket, Australian Rules, Rugby, Concerts etc.

You're making a rather nothing point tbh.
99% of stadia used for professional or semi-professional sport in this country is funded by the working man.

Whether there's demand for use for secondary purposes or not is not the point that should be made. Should N.QLD Cowboys or Adelaide United be denied somewhere to play matches? Should Western United, a club borne to service Melbourne's western suburbs be denied a stadium in the west. No imo.

I mean, pro sporting clubs around the country even have taxpayer funded training facilities.
Very out of touch on this one. Pro sport grinds to a halt without places to sit paying fans to watch.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Thought there was a sudden stench in here. Shit for brains has turned up.
Delete that account son.

 

[Bradesmaen]

You're making a rather nothing point tbh.
99% of stadia used for professional or semi-professional sport in this country is funded by the working man.

Whether there's demand for use for secondary purposes or not is not the point that should be made. Should N.QLD Cowboys or Adelaide United be denied somewhere to play matches? Should Western United, a club borne to service Melbourne's western suburbs be denied a stadium in the west. No imo.

I mean, pro sporting clubs around the country even have taxpayer funded training facilities.
Very out of touch on this one. Pro sport grinds to a halt without places to sit paying fans to watch.

Why should the taxpayer fund a single use stadium? It rarely ever gets paid back. The only ones that I can agree on getting public funding are ones for all, not for one. The government then owns the facility and the money goes back into the government to pay for important things like health and education.

I couldn't care less if particular pro sports ground to a halt if they had nowhere to play, they need to be self sustainable or play at a groundshare.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Why should the taxpayer fund a single use stadium? It rarely ever gets paid back. The only ones that I can agree on getting public funding are ones for all, not for one. The government then owns the facility and the money goes back into the government to pay for important things like health and education.

I couldn't care less if particular pro sports ground to a halt if they had nowhere to play, they need to be self sustainable or play at a groundshare.

Again, IMO. Largely unimportant. We have a trillion dollar per year economy and government wastes plenty of it, gives out plenty in dodgy kick backs and uses it on plenty of crap you or I couldn't care less about. Paid back is a rather antiquated sticking point, pro sport attendance unquestionably generates economic activity in the area and surrounding businesses. Times that by how many games the 4 major football codes + Netball and Basketball play each week and it all adds up.

And to highlight how out of touch it is, there are 5 major venues in Australia that are privately owned. Marvel, Cronulla, Redcliffe (Dolphins), Cazaly Stadium and Ballymore (Qld Reds then and now Brisbane Roar).

Of them Ballymore, Redcliffe, Cronulla and Marvel see regular use and only Marvel hasn't received government funding for developments.

Local grounds and recreation reserves are usually held, owned and maintained by local councils. So professional, semi-professional and recreational sport is almost exclusively funded by the 3 levels of government across the nation.

But what you're really saying is bad luck Central Coast, Adelaide United, North Qld Cowboys, Illawarra Hawks, Manly, Wests Tigers, St George, Cronulla, Parramatta, Geelong. You all need to move or cease to exist because stadium funding isn't suitable. These all play at venues that either receive sporadic secondary use (1-2 games from alternate sports or occasional concert) or have 1 use only.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Again, IMO. Largely unimportant. We have a trillion dollar per year economy and government wastes plenty of it, gives out plenty in dodgy kick backs and uses it on plenty of crap you or I couldn't care less about. Paid back is a rather antiquated sticking point, pro sport attendance unquestionably generates economic activity in the area and surrounding businesses. Times that by how many games the 4 major football codes + Netball and Basketball play each week and it all adds up.

I don't disagree. But it's just a personal opinion that it shouldn't be put on one use stadiums that won't pay the money back. 200 million spent on the NQ stadium, how long do you think it will take to get that back given they play 12 home games a year?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I don't disagree. But it's just a personal opinion that it shouldn't be put on one use stadiums that won't pay the money back. 200 million spent on the NQ stadium, how long do you think it will take to get that back given they play 12 home games a year?

That depends on numerous factors. Where was the materials and labour sourced. How much economic activity does 1 game attract.

Our case as an example, all but the last stage had a requirement for 90% of materials and labour to be local. So that meant Aus resources and local jobs, money that gets pumped back into . The money they spend from the wages paid contributes to it paying itself off. Then each game attracts 2.5-3m economic activity. So say 25m per year there.

If stadium builds last 25-30 years before needing a refurbishment or rebuild then that's the timeline for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Bradesmaen]

That depends on numerous factors. Where was the materials and labour sourced. How much economic activity does 1 game attract.

Our case as an example, all but the last stage had a requirement for 90% of materials and labour to be local. So that meant Aus resources and local jobs, money that gets pumped back into . The money they spend from the wages paid contributes to it paying itself off. Then each game attracts 2.5-3m economic activity. So say 25m per year there.

If stadium builds last 25-30 years before needing a refurbishment or rebuild then that's the timeline for it to be worthwhile.

So local the steel came from Qatar and was poorly welded.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So local the steel came from Qatar and was poorly welded.

This time yes, for some unknown and bizarre reason.
IIRC the project manufacturer covered the cost of having everything redone.

 

[Bradesmaen]

This time yes, for some unknown and bizarre reason.
IIRC the project manufacturer covered the cost of having everything redone.

Cost.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Strange no mention of any gardening leave.

 

[chef]