MRP / Trib. Mansell Suspended 3 Weeks - Suspension Upheld

[Tiger2709]

Of course it was the cause, he suffered many concussions at Richmond and was sent back on, that's why his wife is suing our medicos.

Just because someone sues doesn't mean they are right, you have to stop believing everything you read.

How can anyone know which football bump or boxing punch to the head may have caused the damage or if it was the combined effect, bit hard to put all the blame on Richmond when the player chose a post football career of boxing IMO.

 

[Coach_Required]

That's a great shot, eh the first one, second made my bring up my brekky, eyes are still on the ball and no decision to bump is evident, then a 10th of a second later he protects himself, there is no way he chose to bump

The prosecutor says he had a choice 1 metre from the ball, even if it was 1 metre, running at say 15km/h would mean he had about 0.24 seconds to react. (fastest men in the world run 100 metres in around 9 seconds or 0.09 seconds a metre)
I am staggered our defence team let that comment go through. We could have nailed them right there and it would have been thrown out.

 

[Punt rd end]

The prosecutor says he had a choice 1 metre from the ball, even if it was 1 metre, running at say 15km/h would mean he had about 0.24 seconds to react. (fastest men in the world run 100 metres in around 9 seconds or 0.09 seconds a metre)
I am staggered our defence team let that comment go through. We could have nailed them right there and it would have been thrown out.

1 metre is probably 1 step delusional

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

The prosecutor says he had a choice 1 metre from the ball, even if it was 1 metre, running at say 15km/h would mean he had about 0.24 seconds to react. (fastest men in the world run 100 metres in around 9 seconds or 0.09 seconds a metre)
I am staggered our defence team let that comment go through. We could have nailed them right there and it would have been thrown out.

From the safety of a comfortable armchair and watching the replay of the incident...this so called "expert"?!? makes an opinion as to what Mansell can and canna do in a hotly contested professional game of AFL Football...all within a split second! This so called prosecutor seems to think Mansell had options galore in the split second before the collision!!! Is his idea of footy...one garnered from watching too many slo-mo video replays?!?
Has this so called "expert" even played the game at any level?!?...AFL?!?...VFL?!?...Divisional?!?!...even backyard kick to kick?!?
I always thought you had to have some sort of expertise in venturing a professional opinion...years/experience/work related/educated....
What experience and/or relevance has this so called prosecutor have to make such an unbiased opinion?!?
Otherwise it's opinion, and is no different to any other unbiased lay persons opinions...
If we are going to prosecute a player's suspect actions in a game of AFL football...let's get rid of the legal suit's so called opinions and ask what a professional footballer who has played the game thinks...
Where were the respected past players giving their views?!?
Where was the AFLPA and it's President giving their views?!?
What a Kangaroo Court!
(Skippy...skippy...the bush kangaroo...)

 

[SunshineBoy]

They said Mansell didn’t go for the ball and went at Aish from a metre or two away.

This shows that to be a lie.

His right hand is almost touching the ball and his eyes are clearly pointing down at the ball still.

Spot on mate the prosecutor who has never played the game knew what he was doing

 

[_RT_]

Appeal will be heard 9.30am Friday.

Means decision likely comes in at 10.20

itshappening.gif

 

[SplintWhisky]

Just because someone sues doesn't mean they are right, you have to stop believing everything you read.

How can anyone know which football bump or boxing punch to the head may have caused the damage or if it was the combined effect, bit hard to put all the blame on Richmond when the player chose a post football career of boxing IMO.

You're missing the point of the case. The case, and what is important, is whether the AFL and the club's medicos went against standard medical advice for concussion sufferers. If it was known that putting players back on the ground was harmful then the AFL and club medicos were negligent and liable for damages.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The prosecutor says he had a choice 1 metre from the ball, even if it was 1 metre, running at say 15km/h would mean he had about 0.24 seconds to react. (fastest men in the world run 100 metres in around 9 seconds or 0.09 seconds a metre)
I am staggered our defence team let that comment go through. We could have nailed them right there and it would have been thrown out.

You have to remember the two players are both running at I would say roughly 8 metres per second in opposite directions. So when Aish takes the ball and by the time Mansell could perceive he has taken it and not tapped or fumbled it, they are at most 1.5m apart. They are colliding in 0.1 seconds max. The fastest most elite human reaction time is 0.15 seconds, too slow to decide and execute a different manoeuvre. Mansell did not have anywhere near enough time to decide anything, once Aish had control of the ball, it is already too late. Up until that time the ball was in dispute and Mansell was fully entitled to run straight at it. It has to be remembered as well, Mansell is not standing still waiting for the sound of a starter's gun to react to. He is running full speed trying to assess an ever changing picture with a lot of moving parts, the ball, the player, other players and so on.

Mansell followed the line of the ball at all times with his body and in line with the ball, right through until it was knocked out of Aish's hands. He is perfectly entitled to follow the line of a disputed football. At his last available reaction time Mansell, realising the ball and the two players were certain to intersect, chose to brace for impact, whilst staying right on the line of his object: the ball. He did this with all due care, not leaping off the ground, not raising a forearm.

The timings are crucial to defeating the AFL argument that Mansell could have tackled or slowed down. The final bounce of the ball, by the time Mansell could have perceived this was definitely favouring Aish and that Aish would get there first, they are about 3 metres apart max. They are colliding in under 0.2 seconds time. This is very close to the limit of normal human reaction time, if reacting to one single thing, like a cricket ball flying towards you while you are standing still. At this point, Mansell cannot instruct himself to tackle, as Aish does not yet have the ball. He cannot slow down as him attempting to slow down will not take effect quickly enough to avoid a collision. His only possible legal option apart from what he did would be to attempt a change of direction, thus conceding the ball to Aish. Which would rather defeat the purpose of football as a competitive sport. And even if he attempted to change direction to miss Aish, it may have been too late for this to work.

The AFL is wrong here. The player is entitled to contest the ball, and entitled to brace to protect himself from inevitable contact. Nothing in the rules of the game prevents this. If Aish had control of the ball say 0.3 seconds before impact, enough time for Mansell to react and maybe try to tackle, then it is different. If Aish had disposed of the ball already, again, different. This was just an unavoidable accident of rules that allow players to contest the football at full speed even when coming at the contest from opposing directions. It is relatively rare that players contesting the ball fairly in this manner and this situation results in a concussion. Without major rule changes, it is inevitable it will occur sometimes.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

If he doesn't get off every single incidental high bump will have to go straight to the tribunal. Christian's genius plan to reduce his workload.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

was in reasonable position to contest the ball theres a phrase I actually think Ive seen before..."contested ball"
sensible to take in surrounds such as opposition: suggestion that he looked away ridiculous: youre allowed, ney, REQUIRED to look over your shoulder or glance in your mirror when changing lanes, otherwise you're negligent.
entitled to brace once he realised would be colliding
suggestion of slowing down at last second would not have been sufficient to avoid contact, but would have made contact slightly later - hard to pull up at pace
trying to avoid collision unlikely to be successful at last sec
Apparent available options:

• leap majestically straight up in the air 2m and sail gracefully over the top, applauding as he goes.
• Not bother

 

[Tiger2709]

You're missing the point of the case. The case, and what is important, is whether the AFL and the club's medicos went against standard medical advice for concussion sufferers. If it was known that putting players back on the ground was harmful then the AFL and club medicos were negligent and liable for damages.

Im not sure that I am missing the point.

Ms Tuck's lawyer last year told Coroner John Cain it was unlikely she would continue her involvement with the probe, after they unsuccessfully lobbied for the court to broaden the scope of the investigation.

Ms Tuck wanted the inquest to focus more on the adequacy of the policies surrounding head knocks and concussion when her husband was playing at the AFL, instead of the current scope of current and future guidelines relating to concussion in both boxing and the AFL.

Mr Cain told Ms Tuck in 2021 he was not inclined to "embark on an exercise that involves me apportioning blame as you're seeking to have me do in relation to what Richmond Football Club should or shouldn't have done".

Under its jurisdiction, the job of the coroner is to independently investigate deaths and use the evidence to make recommendations to try and prevent others from dying in a similar way.

Shane Tuck's widow withdraws from coronial inquest over 'grave concerns'

The widow of former AFL player Shane Tuck withdraws from a coronial inquest into his death, citing concerns about the scope of the investigation.

www.abc.net.au

Now the class action v the AFL is another matter

 

[DickieKnee]

Just because someone sues doesn't mean they are right, you have to stop believing everything you read.

How can anyone know which football bump or boxing punch to the head may have caused the damage or if it was the combined effect, bit hard to put all the blame on Richmond when the player chose a post football career of boxing IMO.

Yeah it's like Shane's Tucks wife joining the class action. Tuck started boxing after his football career so I'd think it would be hard to prove in a court football was the cause of his brain problems.

Edit - just seen the post you were replying to was about Tuck. Just agreeing with you.

 

[jesterx]

I think we should get the AFL to retroactively haul Todd Marshall

4

Todd Marshall

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

8.9

2star

K

7.1

3star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.6

5star

back to the tribunal and ban him for 10 weeks given he was the closest player to Paddy McCartin when he got concussed.

 

[Groupie_]

big night tonight selection night and mansells hearing might kill a slab over it

 

[Rayzorwire]

You have to remember the two players are both running at I would say roughly 8 metres per second in opposite directions. So when Aish takes the ball and by the time Mansell could perceive he has taken it and not tapped or fumbled it, they are at most 1.5m apart. They are colliding in 0.1 seconds max. The fastest most elite human reaction time is 0.15 seconds, too slow to decide and execute a different manoeuvre. Mansell did not have anywhere near enough time to decide anything, once Aish had control of the ball, it is already too late. Up until that time the ball was in dispute and Mansell was fully entitled to run straight at it. It has to be remembered as well, Mansell is not standing still waiting for the sound of a starter's gun to react to. He is running full speed trying to assess an ever changing picture with a lot of moving parts, the ball, the player, other players and so on.

Which is why we have former elite athletes like Lisa Hannon weighing in on these matters, y'know, with all their direct life experience of being powerful bodied young men involved in high speed running collisions:




The only thing that's ever happened in 0.1 seconds in Lisa 's life history, was the decision to become a dishonest professional maggot for profit and power.


“If this does not constitute a bump, what is it then?”


An accidental collision between two players playing the ball, one of whom was smart enough to protect themselves at the last possible moment, you office bound oxygen thief.


And let's not forget the lead clown, Jeff Gleeson:





Does he have any other serious contenders for the most sneaky, dishonest, loathed lawyer in Victoria title?

Perhaps Danny O'Brien summed the man's MO up best when he couldn't help but say as politely as humanly possible - "I'm so pissed off by you twisting."

Let's examine a little of Jeff at work, revered industry leading professional that he is:

“Although he approached the contest at speed, the vision shows that from a metre or two from the point of impact he turns and bumps Aish. This was not simply a reflexive or involuntary bumping into an opponent. It was a bump."

Right, so apparently it isn't actually Twisty Jeff's job (or anyone else on what AFL passes of as a legal team) to quantify the distance it actually was between when Mansell began to protect himself and the collision - it's his job to guess/approximate to suit his case, then start twisting.

Maybe it was half a metre, maybe it was three metres, apparently it's not the AFL's job to actually measure the distance, or the speed involved, when mounting a legal case against players. The difference between half a metre or two and a half and at what speed is utterly irrelevant, for the Twisty Jeff's of the world.

Actually measuring stuff like that would produce conclusive evidence, not the speculative pseudo-evidence Twisty and Lisa need to deliver a predestined outcome.

The AFL don't have the same obligation and burden of proof in substantiating the facts used in a case as every other courtroom in the land - they have a Gilaroo Court.

 

[_RT_]

big night tonight selection night and mansells hearing might kill a slab over it


View attachment 1713211

You know that Mansell will be named tonight.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Which is why we have former elite athletes like Lisa Hannon weighing in on these matters, y'know, with all their direct life experience of being powerful bodied young men involved in high speed running collisions:


View attachment 1713185

The only thing that's ever happened in 0.1 seconds in Lisa 's life history, was the decision to become a dishonest professional maggot for profit and power.


“If this does not constitute a bump, what is it then?”


An accidental collision between two players playing the ball, one of whom was smart enough to protect themselves at the last possible moment, you office bound oxygen thief.


And let's not forget the lead clown, Jeff Gleeson:


View attachment 1713201


Does he have any other serious contenders for the most sneaky, dishonest, loathed lawyer in Victoria title?

Perhaps Danny O'Brien summed the man's MO up best when he couldn't help but say as politely as humanly possible - "I'm so pissed off by you twisting."

Let's examine a little of Jeff at work, revered industry leading professional that he is:

“Although he approached the contest at speed, the vision shows that from a metre or two from the point of impact he turns and bumps Aish. This was not simply a reflexive or involuntary bumping into an opponent. It was a bump."

Right, so apparently it isn't actually Twisty Jeff's job (or anyone else on what AFL passes of as a legal team) to quantify the distance it actually was between when Mansell began to protect himself and the collision - it's his job to guess/approximate to suit his case, then start twisting.

Maybe it was half a metre, maybe it was three metres, apparently it's not the AFL's job to actually measure the distance, or the speed involved, when mounting a legal case against players. The difference between half a metre or two and a half and at what speed is utterly irrelevant, for the Twisty Jeff's of the world.

Actually measuring stuff like that would produce conclusive evidence, not the speculative pseudo-evidence Twisty and Lisa need to deliver a predestined outcome.

The AFL don't have the same obligation and burden of proof in substantiating the facts used in a case as every other courtroom in the land - they have a Gilaroo Court.

Perfectly and colourfully put Rayzor.

It is laughably amateurish Lisa Hannon suggesting what Mansell could have decided to do in < known elite human reaction time, while he has several independently moving parts to assess whilst also focussing on the football and running at full speed himself. It is afterall, her job to make something up to try to form a case.

But it is by far more laughably amateurish that the Tribunal members accepted it. 3 ****ing ludicrous human beings that now have to live with the fact it is recorded they put their names to this decision.

 

[Groupie_]

You know that Mansell will be named tonight.

I'll have 3 extra if he is

 

[_RT_]

I'll have 3 extra if he is

This will be you by 10.20

 

[Rayzorwire]

Perfectly and colourfully put Rayzor.

It is laughably amateurish Lisa Hannon suggesting what Mansell could have decided to do in < known elite human reaction time, while he has several independently moving parts to assess whilst also focussing on the football and running at full speed himself. It is afterall, her job to make something up to try to form a case.

But it is by far more laughably amateurish that the Tribunal members accepted it. 3 ******* ludicrous human beings that now have to live with the fact it is recorded they put their names to this decision.

Who are they, mate? - let's get their boof heads and names into the hall of shame where they belong.

Coz, y'know, it's not like you can go to the AFL site and find a link to the full verdict and who was responsible within the same hour of starting to look for it.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Who are they, mate? - let's get their boof heads and names into the hall of shame where they belong.

Coz, y'know, it's not like you can go to the AFL site and find a link to the full verdict and who was responsible within the same hour of starting to look for it.

Jury: Jeff Gleeson (Chair), Talia Radan and David Neitz

Talia Radan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Neitz only has 300 games of AFL football to draw on to help him understand. What a ****ing imbecile.

Gleeson QC is of course the donkey who had a truck driven through his practices by Patrick Cripps' advocate in the infamous 2022 case.

 

[beema limapep]

big night tonight selection night and mansells hearing might kill a slab over it


View attachment 1713211

Plus Geelong to get destroyed by Port. I'm on. VB 500ml monsters.

 

[beema limapep]

50% off dominoes adverts in Bigfooty. Delishious

 

[Tigerbob68]

The only thing that's ever happened in 0.1 seconds in Lisa 's life history, was the decision to become a dishonest professional maggot for profit and power.

That is very simply one of the most magnificent sentences I've ever read on Bigfooty!!

 

[SunshineBoy]

big night tonight selection night and mansells hearing might kill a slab over it


View attachment 1713211

Is it tonight ? Or next week? Because Sicily is next week