Matthew Lloyd (2001) vs. Lance Franklin (2008)

[james_omahoney]

I'm just hoping mahoney isn't writing a massively long post. He seems to be some sort of mathematician and all his convoluted calculations are making my head swirl

no need anymore

 

[Jade]

I'm just hoping mahoney isn't writing a massively long post. He seems to be some sort of mathematician and all his convoluted calculations are making my head swirl

Mate, please stop. I have never seen a poster so comprehensively beaten refuse to admit defeat.

Hell, even people who can't admit it still would have had the decency to slink away quietly by now.

 

[Hawks92]

errr, in 2008 buddy kicked 113 goals, won a premiership, won his clubs best and fairest, all australian full forward and finished 4th in the brownlow. not to mention win the coleman medal.

did lloyd do all that in 2001?

 

[SouthSwans]

Buddy. Easily.

 

[Jade]

errr, in 2008 buddy kicked 113 goals, won a premiership, won his clubs best and fairest, all australian full forward and finished 4th in the brownlow. not to mention win the coleman medal.

did lloyd do all that in 2001?

For crying out loud. Will people PLEASE read the rest of the thread before posting? The same cr*p is being spewed over and over again. (sorry mate, not an attack on you, just a bit sick of it)

For your benefit - Lloyd kicked more goals per game, missed the premiership due to the opposition being far superior to that which Hawthorn played and was still a greater contributor in the Grand Final then Buddy was.

As referenced in numerous posts in this thread, Essendon had a far greater spread of contributors - hence no best and fairest.

 

[Smyth94]

I wouldn't say he dominated at HF at any stage. He did alright. Regardless of why you think he got to 300 games, that's the only reason he might break the 1000 goal milestone. His average is the worst of the top FFs.

From Round 12 Lloyd averaged:
11.36 kicks
4.27 handballs
15.64 possessions
8.45 marks
3.55 goals

He dominated his position

 

[whatimtalkingbout]

From Round 12 Lloyd averaged:
11.36 kicks
4.27 handballs
15.64 possessions
8.45 marks
3.55 goals

He dominated his position

He stopped being a net loss to his team, that's about it

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Buddy. Easily.

Easily? Please back it up with some logic.

 

[Andronicus]

He stopped being a net loss to his team, that's about it

your performance in this threak is akin to port adelaide in the 07 gf.

if there was a numerical value that could be given to your loss it would easily exceed 119.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

He stopped being a net loss to his team, that's about it

He's just having a laugh now surely?

 

[james_omahoney]

He's just having a laugh now surely?

LOL i started typing the same thing but then didn't want to give him anything to respond to. Actually my words were: "You're winding us up now aren't ya?"

 

[whatimtalkingbout]

I clearly underestimated the bias level among bomber supporters

 

[Kong]

I clearly underestimated the bias level among bomber supporters

why are you still arguing? oh for fu.... shoosh!

 

[Hawks92]

surely the player who kicked more goals, had greater team success and won more awards would have had the better season?

 

[Jade]

surely the player who kicked more goals, had greater team success and won more awards would have had the better season?

Mate, again, Lloyd had the higher goal average.

Hawthorn won the 2008 premiership on GF day, not Lance Franklin. As for the players themselves, Lloyd was the better in the GF then Franklin by a considerable margin (which is not to say Franklin didn't play a part).

It is a close comparison, but as has been stated numerous times in this thread, Lloyd had a clear black and white statistical advantage over Franklin in goals, marks, effective possessions and so on and so forth.

The final word on it should be as simple as checking the poll result, a close, but clear win to Lloyd.

 

[aussieicon91]

Franklin's acchievements overshadow Llyod's in 2001 because he did so whilst playing along side another forward that finished in the top 5 goalkickers for the competition.

When exactly was the last time a player kicked a 100 goals in a season and a fellow team mate contributed over 70 aswell?

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

2008
Fevola - 99
Betts - 25

Brown - 75
Bradshaw - 75

Franklin - 113
Roughead - 75

2001
Llyod - 105
Lucas - 35

 

[Smyth94]

Franklin's acchievements overshadow Llyod's in 2001 because he did so whilst playing along side another forward that finished in the top 5 goalkickers for the competition.

When exactly was the last time a player kicked a 100 goals in a season and a fellow team mate contributed over 70 aswell?

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

2008
Fevola - 99
Betts - 25

Brown - 75
Bradshaw - 75

Franklin - 113
Roughead - 75

2001
Llyod - 105
Lucas - 35

How many other Hawthorn forwards scored 30 goals+ ?

In 2001 Essendon had well over 5 players kicking 30+ goals

 

[Red Black and Blue]

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

Why because its harder to argue against valid points? Essendon kick 8 more goals 2001 than hawks did 08. How is it harder with another high goal kicking key forward? It spreads the defense more evenly.

 

[Jade]

Franklin's acchievements overshadow Llyod's in 2001 because he did so whilst playing along side another forward that finished in the top 5 goalkickers for the competition.

When exactly was the last time a player kicked a 100 goals in a season and a fellow team mate contributed over 70 aswell?

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

You have GOT to be kidding. You mean to tell me that it is HARDER to kick more goals when you have another highly regarded forward in the team?

Idiot.....

one spearhead = majority of the defense concentrated on nullifying you
two spearheads = same defense split between two players

 

[Jade]

How many other Hawthorn forwards scored 30 goals+ ?

In 2001 Essendon had well over 5 players kicking 30+ goals

Smythe, please check your facts before posting. This is not true.

Essendon had well over a dozen players kicking 10+, and over five players kicking 20+, not 30+.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Smythe, please check your facts before posting. This is not true.

Essendon had well over a dozen players kicking 10+, and over five players kicking 20+, not 30+.

All up we had 7 players kick over 20goals and 7 more kicking 10 or more.

 

[Kong]

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

History shows that Tom Hafey was one of the all-time coaching greats for Richmond.. But apparently you know little about history, reading your post in another thread

 

[da_wog_from_so]

whatimtalkingbout you my friend are a twit, you got ROLLED in this thread and i had a good laugh at some of the pathetic crap that come outta your hands onto that keyboard and into this forum! hahahahaha. real joke of a poster you are.

 

[james_omahoney]

History shows that it is easier as the lone ranger and don't come up with this bullcrap about how Essendon had a 'wider variety of goal kickers' because it's nowhere near the same to having another key forward standing next to you who is held in pretty high regard, especially seeing as he finished top 5 in the Coleman Medal.

You have GOT to be kidding. You mean to tell me that it is HARDER to kick more goals when you have another highly regarded forward in the team?

Idiot.....

one spearhead = majority of the defense concentrated on nullifying you
two spearheads = same defense split between two players

Very very true. Bit hard to nullify Buddy when you have to stick close to Roughead and Williams. Lance wasn't at all denied of opportunities because of Roughead, in fact the general Hawks gameplan was to leave Buddy 1-on-1 in the 50 and try to move it down to his contest as quickly as possible. Lance was a target just as much as Lloyd was. Are you trying to say he was a target of 50 entries less than Lloyd?

Roughead's tally is more of a credit to Roughead himself. From memory a lot of his goals came from short leads in a congested forward 50 arc, but not so much as an alternative target to Franklin when the ball was moved quickly.

A massive generalistion by aussieicon. A key forward standing next to Buddy? Don't embarrass yourself any further.

 

[Smyth94]

Smythe, please check your facts before posting. This is not true.

Essendon had well over a dozen players kicking 10+, and over five players kicking 20+, not 30+.

All up we had 7 players kick over 20goals and 7 more kicking 10 or more.

My apologies...I was only going off the top of my head.