**MB Thread** Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

[Spanish_Fly]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

FWIW my opinion.

Bombers - the hardest to get a gauge on, I think they got a jump on most teams last year as they were very sharp from rd1 and probably "stole" a few wins early on. Having said that they have by far the greatest belief of all these teams and that is a critical element. They also have an outstanding off field setup and I think they will take their fitness to another level again. I tipped them to finish 5th but not really based on the quality in their squad, moreso quality of their football department and their belief they can match it with the better sides. Wouldn't surprise me though if a few things don't go their way they miss the 8.

Roos - really are the opposite of Essendon. Lack of belief against the bigger sides, lack of resources off the park, and a lack of genuine KP players of quality, may end up with 2 ruckmen as their key forwards. They also lack outside class which the Bombers have plenty of. What they do have is midfield depth and plenty of grunt. Their draw should see them make the 8, but with Petrie and Harvey as their only real match winners they are less likely to kick on into the top 4 beyond 2012 IMO.

Dees - Still a lot of question marks on the quality of a lot of their higher draft picks IMO. Their defense isn't as good as most of their fans think, I don't really see anything other than solid tryers down their bar Frawley. Trengove will be a star, but they'll never be a top 4 side whilst Jones, Moloney, Davey and Sylvia are their first choice midfield. Don't rate Clarke as a KPF, and it's easy to say he will free up Watts and Jurrah but if he is attracting a lot of the ball it's not really a win for Melbourne IMO. Dees need Trengove, Watts, Frawley and Grimes to be top 6 B&F this year for them to really feel they have made progression. My tip would be another year of stagnation before moving forward in 2013.

Bombers 5th
North. 8th
Dees. 12th.

 

[Vtorians]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

FWIW my opinion.

Bombers - the hardest to get a gauge on, I think they got a jump on most teams last year as they were very sharp from rd1 and probably "stole" a few wins early on. Having said that they have by far the greatest belief of all these teams and that is a critical element. They also have an outstanding off field setup and I think they will take their fitness to another level again. I tipped them to finish 5th but not really based on the quality in their squad, moreso quality of their football department and their belief they can match it with the better sides. Wouldn't surprise me though if a few things don't go their way they miss the 8.

Roos - really are the opposite of Essendon. Lack of belief against the bigger sides, lack of resources off the park, and a lack of genuine KP players of quality, may end up with 2 ruckmen as their key forwards. They also lack outside class which the Bombers have plenty of. What they do have is midfield depth and plenty of grunt. Their draw should see them make the 8, but with Petrie and Harvey as their only real match winners they are less likely to kick on into the top 4 beyond 2012 IMO.

Dees - Still a lot of question marks on the quality of a lot of their higher draft picks IMO. Their defense isn't as good as most of their fans think, I don't really see anything other than solid tryers down their bar Frawley. Trengove will be a star, but they'll never be a top 4 side whilst Jones, Moloney, Davey and Sylvia are their first choice midfield. Don't rate Clarke as a KPF, and it's easy to say he will free up Watts and Jurrah but if he is attracting a lot of the ball it's not really a win for Melbourne IMO. Dees need Trengove, Watts, Frawley and Grimes to be top 6 B&F this year for them to really feel they have made progression. My tip would be another year of stagnation before moving forward in 2013.

Bombers 5th
North. 8th
Tigers 10th
Dees. 12th.

Thats roughly how i see it, your summation is spot on.

 

[Jade]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

FWIW my opinion.

Bombers - the hardest to get a gauge on, I think they got a jump on most teams last year as they were very sharp from rd1 and probably "stole" a few wins early on. Having said that they have by far the greatest belief of all these teams and that is a critical element. They also have an outstanding off field setup and I think they will take their fitness to another level again. I tipped them to finish 5th but not really based on the quality in their squad, moreso quality of their football department and their belief they can match it with the better sides. Wouldn't surprise me though if a few things don't go their way they miss the 8.

Roos - really are the opposite of Essendon. Lack of belief against the bigger sides, lack of resources off the park, and a lack of genuine KP players of quality, may end up with 2 ruckmen as their key forwards. They also lack outside class which the Bombers have plenty of. What they do have is midfield depth and plenty of grunt. Their draw should see them make the 8, but with Petrie and Harvey as their only real match winners they are less likely to kick on into the top 4 beyond 2012 IMO.

Dees - Still a lot of question marks on the quality of a lot of their higher draft picks IMO. Their defense isn't as good as most of their fans think, I don't really see anything other than solid tryers down their bar Frawley. Trengove will be a star, but they'll never be a top 4 side whilst Jones, Moloney, Davey and Sylvia are their first choice midfield. Don't rate Clarke as a KPF, and it's easy to say he will free up Watts and Jurrah but if he is attracting a lot of the ball it's not really a win for Melbourne IMO. Dees need Trengove, Watts, Frawley and Grimes to be top 6 B&F this year for them to really feel they have made progression. My tip would be another year of stagnation before moving forward in 2013.

Bombers 5th
North. 8th
Dees. 12th.

Excellent post.

 

[emblurr]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

I'll believe it when it happens with Richmond and Melbourne. Meanwhile they are out of the eight for me.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, Norf – views from the outside

I'm not really a betting man, other than chucking $10 on at the Brownlow/GF once a year.

I'd wager a signature bet or something, though.

Ok if Essendon finish 6th or above in 2012, I will wear any signature you create for 6 months. If Essendon finish 7th or below, you have to wear any signature I create for 6 months.

Do we have ourselves our deal?

 

[Jade]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, Norf – views from the outside

Ok if Essendon finish 6th or above in 2012, I will wear any signature you create for 6 months. If Essendon finish 7th or below, you have to wear any signature I create for 6 months.

Do we have ourselves our deal?

A mods signature is 'worth' more than the normal Joe.....

Particularly one of ours

7th, and one month, and you and I can talk.

 

[Knight Ryders]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, Norf – views from the outside

Richmond: I really like their top end talent of which I would liken a lot to Carlton with an absolutely gun midfield. Jack Riewoldt is also a serious talent. The biggest query for mine is their depth to support these guns - it's just not there right now and is Dimma's biggest challenge. I bloody love their spirit when they are up and about. I still see them finished 9-12th.

North: I think they've predominantly recruited hard nosed players. I think they are good, just not sure how good yet. They still did rely heavily on Harvey and Petrie last year but I'm not sold on them being a contender just yet. 9-12th

Melbourne: They're just really lacking in leadership but the talent is definitely there. They have a very well rounded squad, but they have got to start believing they can achieve. All above the head at the Dees. I think they'll also finish in the cluster of 9-12th.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, Norf – views from the outside

A mods signature is 'worth' more than the normal Joe.....

Particularly one of ours

7th, and one month, and you and I can talk.

You dont sounds confident

 

[RogersResults]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The better teams are those that don't 'leak'.

Last three seasons 2011, 2010, 2009

Ranking (lowest to highest) by average score conceded each match.

Essendon 13th, 16th, 12th
Melbourne 14th, 8th, 15th
Nth Melb. 8th, 13th, 7th
Richmond 15th, 15th, 16th

Last 6 seasons combined (2006-2011) - excluding Gold Coast.

Nth Melb. 11th (Average 96.4 pts conceded)
Melbourne 14th (Average 102.4 pts conceded)
Richmond 15th (Average 107.6 pts conceded)
Essendon 16th (Average 108.4 pts conceded)

Average conceded for all competing teams 2006-11 - 93.2 pts.
Lowest Average: 2006-11, St Kilda 78.3, Geelong 78.5.

Draw your own conclusions (if any).

 

[Jade]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, Norf – views from the outside

You dont sounds confident

I'm not sure how, considering I've already offered myself up for various bets.....

 

[Blues098]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Yes i hate the Bombers as much as the next carlton supporter but all hate aside, I think that they are the best out of the 4 teams mentioned.

Everybody knows that they can beat anyone on their day (except for games in WA). The issue with them is that the players are so injury prone and you can expect an injury pretty much every game. Weren't they sitting 3rd on the ladder after round 8 or something before Watson was injured? Was there a suspension as well? I honestly think that they are a tier above the other 3. Up there with sydney and fremantle. If you look at some of their games, there is a draw against us with 2 acl injuries, a great performance on ANZAC day, the GC smashing etc. Some unlucky losses like the one against Sydney and North. the win against Geelong, sydney, west coast etc and I think that they are much better than the other 3 when looking at performance this year alone. Like I told my friend, once they start going, they are hard to stop. Not even Collingwood (second game) could stop them in that 1st quarter.

North are good against the bottom and average sides, but not so good against the better teams. They did have a lot of close losses, but I think that is the typical close enough is good enough mentality. They don't as a whole have that killer instinct i guess. Fremantle had a lot of closes a couple of years ago, but in each of those games, they were leading the whole game only to lose the games in the last quarter. North, play catch up or lets stay close to the opponents. Their complete non-competitiveness against the top teams are a bit worrying. They though have the softest draw so that could be taken in consideration. The funny thing about this is that North have the wood on all of these teams.

Richmond look to be like Essendon. Another team that cannot be stopped once they get going. Their issue though is that they have set teams that they can't beat and are generally non-competitive against them, like Carlton, Geelong and Collingwood. It is all in their minds as they looked very good in the second half against Sydney at the MCG.

Melbourne are the biggest unknown for me. They were a weird team. Smashed teams and were smashed by teams. Should I look at their 80+ wins or their 80+ losses? It is very hard to go past 186 though. There must be serious issues with the players' mentality if they can't stop the opposition from beating them by 186 point.

Essendon

Richmond
North
Melbourne

That is how I see it. Can see Richmond taking huge scalps next year but I can't see North doing the same.

 

[Air_Chester]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The better teams are those that don't 'leak'.

Last three seasons 2011, 2010, 2009

Ranking (lowest to highest) by average score conceded each match.

Essendon 13th, 16th, 12th
Melbourne 14th, 8th, 15th
Nth Melb. 8th, 13th, 7th
Richmond 15th, 15th, 16th

Draw your own conclusions (if any).

I see that, as we all know, Essendon, Richmond and Melbourne leak points (BIG leaks).

I also see that conceding less points means very little when you don't score above average. I also see that as such, conceding fewer points doesn't mean you make finals, with the second worst offender making finals 2/3 years, and the others not making finals at all.

Those are just my legitimately obvious yet interesting observations, not talking up my team. Essendon's number two problem is in fact leaking points.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Glad to be underrated. Didn't work well the other way.

 

[willoblue]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Bombers or Kangas for mine.
Tiges have a great midfield developing, so maybe them in 2013

 

[Air_Chester]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Yes i hate the Bombers as much as the next carlton supporter but all hate aside, I think that they are the best out of the 4 teams mentioned.

Everybody knows that they can beat anyone on their day (except for games in WA).

In WA/SA/Qld. Our records from 2001-2011 were...

In SA: 3 wins, 14 losses
In WA: 3 wins, 14 losses
In QLD: 1 win, 6 losses


The single win in QLD and one of the SA wins coming from 2011 when Brisbane and Adelaide were in very poor form, and one of the WA wins in 2001 where we finished 1st and West Coast 13th.

Embarrassing doesn't cover that record. Oddly, our record in Sydney is pretty even, with all very close results.

 

[Rack Watts]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Kangaroos 6th-9th
Essendon 7th-10th
Melbourne 8th-12th
Richmond 9th-13th

 

[MightyTiger]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The better teams are those that don't 'leak'.

Last three seasons 2011, 2010, 2009

Ranking (lowest to highest) by average score conceded each match.

Essendon 13th, 16th, 12th
Melbourne 14th, 8th, 15th
Nth Melb. 8th, 13th, 7th
Richmond 15th, 15th, 16th

Last 6 seasons combined (2006-2011) - excluding Gold Coast.

Nth Melb. 11th (Average 96.4 pts conceded)
Melbourne 14th (Average 102.4 pts conceded)
Richmond 15th (Average 107.6 pts conceded)
Essendon 16th (Average 108.4 pts conceded)

Average conceded for all competing teams 2006-11 - 93.2 pts.
Lowest Average: 2006-11, St Kilda 78.3, Geelong 78.5.

Draw your own conclusions (if any).

Earth shattering statistics, so basically the crap teams concede a lot of points.

Captain obvious.

 

[LouisCK]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The scary thing about those statistics is that our defence is clearly our strongest area.

Shows how badly the Melbourne midfield have been getting smashed now for years.

And I think everyone is aware of how inconsistent and unorganised our forward line has been, but that had a lot to do with Bailey's terrible game plan of "running on" to the football in the forward 50. The amount of times we literally had nobody in the forward line, and then get a break from midfield only to have nothing to kick to..... urgh.... I hope Neeld sorts this rubbish out.

 

[Trav 20]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

It's funny how we cop shit for having a shit midfield but we have the best midfielder out of all these sides we are being compared to.

It's not much to hang your hat on. When Watson was the same age as Trengove and Martin he was fat and hardly getting a game. North, Richmond and Melbourne all have midfield talent that will out-perform Watson's career.

 

[Trav 20]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

There's the odd fool that barely has the prerequisite grey matter required to reply to this thread, but on the whole I think the views on these clubs are reasonable.

Unless I was an idiot savant when it came to all things footy I wouldn't rate my club if I was an opposition supporter. They played last year as though they'd call for the Doctor if they broke a finger nail, so I'm happy for the Dees to shut up and show their mettle by putting their head over the ball and finally having a game-plan with structure and a strong defensive mindset.

I'm sick of speculation.

 

[bing181]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

I'm sick of speculation.

Why visit Bigfooty then?

Some good posts here. But it's a bit like the draft, who really knows? No-one tipped WCE to do anything except go even further backwards this year, and look what happened.

 

[Ambrosia]

It's not much to hang your hat on. When Watson was the same age as Trengove and Martin he was fat and hardly getting a game. North, Richmond and Melbourne all have midfield talent that will out-perform Watson's career.

This is the worst thing about clubs who have great young midfield talent.

There us only one player currently on Melbournes list that will likely have a career as good or better than jobe and there is two or three at Richmond and there is one or two at North.

I guess I should list the midfielders

Melbourne -Jack Trengrove
Richmond - Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin and Deledio if he moves from the back line.
North Melbourne - Swallow and maybe Jack Ziebell

 

[UpTheGuts]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Bombers or Kangas for mine.
Tiges have a great midfield developing, so maybe them in 2013

I think most of us would agree that we will be in the zone then

Gotta find a CHF though

 

[Knight Ryders]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The same argument against Watson could be argued with Swan and Gary Ablett Jnr. Some players just take longer to mature but interestingly all the above have good pedigree.

 

[RandB]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

I won't bother too much with the ladder predictions although I think next year at least North and Essendon are more likely to make the 8 than Melbourne and Richmond.

Melbourne and Richmond will make great inroads next year wrt the mental hardness and professionalism side of things though and beyond 2012 will be much better sides.

I'd love to say Melbourne will go up a notch next year but I don't know how hard they'll be pushed by Neeld during the season and it may take some time for them to translate the training and gameplan to wins - young bodies playing catch up physically - Neeld is the man though.

I thought North had reached a peak with what they could do with their list but their last 2 NDs have yielded a little bit of versatility so who knows.

Essendon are capable of very great things on their day when they feel like it so if Hird can take control of them and iron out more of the bad games then they are the biggest threat to the higher up clubs.

Dons, Tiges & Roos wouldn't want to lose a top kid to GWS though it certainly changes the complexion of things if they are a mid. Viney is no longer a bonus for us he is now critical to our midfield in 2013.