Coach Michael Voss

[Beer n Skittles]

100%. Totally agree. I don't think Voss' gameplan is that bad, nor do I see him having much choice when it comes to moving the magnets around.

Our 2 main issues are still the same as they have been for the last 5 years;

1. Delivery into the forward line is seriously Flawed & Our forwards don't know how to lead into space and are continually in contests.
2. We are still mentally fragile. This is improving, but it's because we don't score that the pressure ramps up, especially on our defense, which is undeservedly maligned at times.

I will also add (what I've been banging on about for the last few weeks) that we need to be tougher on players that don't perform and give other players a chance to come into the 22 as a reward for playing well. Confidence is also lacking because fringe players are scared of being axed in favor of someone who has skills, but not necessarily any effort/drive.

Delivery into the forward line is seriously flawed due to the gameplan though. Voss wants them to chip kick the ball around and control it, but because Carlton are a slowish team of unreliable kicks it doesn't work. At best they work the ball to the wing and then bomb it towards the forward 50 from there

 

[bmaurizio]

Personal availability is crucial to all teams in the competition, especially the more skillful, quick players the play makers , as soon as a few are unavailable , a teams’s potential is stifled , it has happened alway In our game.
A long, dure season ahead yet and our outcome may be totally different and more positive closer to finals.
Having said that, come season end , Recruiting & Coaching must be refreshed & scrutinized diligently & seriously.

 

[Bletch]

Bottom line is Red Haired coaches have a terrible record.
That is not any specific bias against redheads, just a fact.

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

Vossy will be fine. It will take longer than we thought though

 

[Kruezing]

No I didn't say that.
Once a redhead always a redhead.
Dying not likely to help.
That's why McRae is so much better than him, and the Scott brothers. And everyone else from the Brisbane premiership team.
Voss and Leppitsch are the only epic failures.

You may have a point … growing up I could never take Ralph Malph seriously lol … the Fonz on the other hand …

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

I will also add (what I've been banging on about for the last few weeks) that we need to be tougher on players that don't perform and give other players a chance to come into the 22 as a reward for playing well. Confidence is also lacking because fringe players are scared of being axed in favor of someone who has skills, but not necessarily any effort/drive.

Agree with this. Jack Welch, arguably one of the most successful leaders of all time, sacked the bottom 10% of the employees in his team every year. He did that right through his career. Obviously it made the poorer performers work harder, but he felt it actually had a greater impact on the top performers. Those are the people driven to succeed. They don't like carrying passengers and feel more motivated in an environment where there is a cut-throat culture of success.

I liked Ratten, but I never really understood his approach of 'rewarding' the team by not making any changes after a win. That is not a culture of success in my eyes.

The jury is out on Voss, but I like his moves in the last couple of weeks. First TDK. Now Kennedy. Would love to see him keep that going all season, win, lose or draw. No-one off limits.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Vossy will be fine. It will take longer than we thought though

Although we may have to wait until his hair turns grey

 

[macky99]

Vossy will be fine. It will take longer than we thought though

No sure many people are buying that commentary.
We have gone backwards from last year and our draw is very tough after this weekend.

 

[Bostonian]

Just on the highlighted bit, its actually not Voss' game plan per se'. I listened to a leadership podcast recently with him on it and he says that when he first arrived, he asked the players how they wanted to play. He stated they were pretty bang on as they are smart guys and know their footy really well. He and the coaches went away and devised a game plan that represented their preferred style and presented it back to the playing group. There was some back and forth a few times to tweak it but essentially, they players and coaches all own it (ie full 360 buy in). So as you say, it all comes back to execution.

How can he claim they are smart when every week we see them make dumb decision after dumb decision out on the ground.

To me that sounds like a limited coach who can't figure out his own successful game plan.

No wonder we're so disjointed and average.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

How can he claim they are smart when every week we see them make dumb decision after dumb decision out on the ground.

To me that sounds like a limited coach who can't figure out his own successful game plan.

No wonder we're so disjointed and average.

Didn't we say the same thing about Teague and Bolton etc ?

At what point do.we have to concede our players are partly to blame (not as good as we all thought they are)

Very confident we will make the finals though.

 

[Bostonian]

Didn't we say the same thing about Teague and Bolton etc ?

At what point do.we have to concede our players are partly to blame (not as good as we all thought they are)

Very confident we will make the finals though.

If the players are the problem then having a coach listening to them and basing a game plan around what the players think shows we're not going anywhere with a set up like that.

 

[Accidental genius]

Didn't we say the same thing about Teague and Bolton etc ?

At what point do.we have to concede our players are partly to blame (not as good as we all thought they are)

Very confident we will make the finals though.

our team is top 8 worthy.

coaches need to get us there.

its their job to make the team perform at the level required.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Don't want to keep harping on about Voss here, I obviously really want him to succeed.

But geez it's really surprising that he hasn't taken a hard edge with this playing group. I really thought with his appointment, at the very least, the days of underperforming players constantly getting a game regardless of their output were over. This is very Teaguesque... it's almost as if he's frightened to lose his job, so he'll persist with the team on paper rather than reality in the hope that they'll pull their finger out.

It doesn't work that way. We've seen it over the years, once this playing group gets comfortable, they get complacent and I just feel that this game against the Eagles was the perfect opportunity to take a stand because we've got a very tough string of games after that and if he's worried about dropping players for a game against the dwellers then he's not going to do it when we face better sides...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

our team is top 8 worthy.

coaches need to get us there.

its their job to make the team perform at the level required.

Top 8?

Two Coleman medalists, Brownlow medalist, another bloke who racked up 30 votes a couple years ago as well, multiple top 10 picks in the prime of their career, big name off season recruits... that screams top 4, premiership challenger.

The fact we haven't made the finals yet is a joke. Agreed the coaches are screwing us here...

 

[Accidental genius]

Top 8?

Two Coleman medalists, Brownlow medalist, another bloke who racked up 30 votes a couple years ago as well, multiple top 10 picks in the prime of their career, big name off season recruits... that screams top 4, premiership challenger.

The fact we haven't made the finals yet is a joke. Agreed the coaches are screwing us here...

One step at a time….

let’s just make top 8 first…

happy to then talk about top 4.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

One step at a time….

let’s just make top 8 first…

happy to then talk about top 4.

Yeah, I'd be very happy with a finals finish... not trying to jump the gun there.

My point was more around where they should be with that sort of cattle out there.

They've talked about high performance and standards and it's clear they haven't been driven... all talk.

 

[JustaBattler]

our team is top 8 worthy.

coaches need to get us there.

its their job to make the team perform at the level required.

Which contending team would have any of Motlop/Durdin/Fisher/Honey or Silvagni as a starting 22 player? How about Ed Curnow or Hollands or Cowan?

How many developing or ordinary players can any top8 worthy team carry ?

In order to really match it with teh best sides you need all these blokes to be able to 'match it' with their direct opponents.

I stated earlier in the year that the best defence and response to the fast forward game is man on man and win the contest - that is what Port demonstrated yesterday against St Kilda. Port also have a stacked forward line compared to Carlton as far as defensive pressure and alternative ways to goal - Port were able to match it one on one in teh forward fifty at the contest- there were no easy exits.

Every 'game plan' looks great when it is working to advantage. What 'game plan' do you suggest that Voss can execute carrying all these developing on not quite up to it bodies every week.

Maybe the simple truth is that Carlton has limited attacking and defending capability and limited game plan and tactical elbow room - because there is a very large discrepancy of talent between the best players and the rest...maybe the team has to 'outperform' real capability to just be competitive against teams which have so many of our players 'covered'. Maybe too many of teh players are actually unable to execute the game plan drills in a game - because they are just not good enough - yet or may never be.

Too easy to blame a coach and point to Weitering/Saad/Docherty/Cripps/Charlie and Harry as being more than enough to cruise into finals - it doesn't work like that - stars need the role players to be able to play their roles. I think the team and list is a few players short of even that - atm.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Which contending team would have any of Motlop/Durdin/Fisher/Honey or Silvagni as a starting 22 player? How about Ed Curnow or Hollands or Cowan?

How many developing or ordinary players can any top8 worthy team carry ?

In order to really match it with teh best sides you need all these blokes to be able to 'match it' with their direct opponents.

I stated earlier in the year that the best defence and response to the fast forward game is man on man and win the contest - that is what Port demonstrated yesterday against St Kilda. Port also have a stacked forward line compared to Carlton as far as defensive pressure and alternative ways to goal - Port were able to match it one on one in teh forward fifty at the contest- there were no easy exits.

Every 'game plan' looks great when it is working to advantage. What 'game plan' do you suggest that Voss can execute carrying all these developing on not quite up to it bodies every week.

Maybe the simple truth is that Carlton has limited attacking and defending capability and limited game plan and tactical elbow room - because there is a very large discrepancy of talent between the best players and the rest...maybe the team has to 'outperform' real capability to just be competitive against teams which have so many of our players 'covered'. Maybe too many of teh players are actually unable to execute the game plan drills in a game - because they are just not good enough - yet or may never be.

Too easy to blame a coach and point to Weitering/Saad/Docherty/Cripps/Charlie and Harry as being more than enough to cruise into finals - it doesn't work like that - stars need the role players to be able to play their roles. I think the team and list is a few players short of even that - atm.

One could argue with a better system, Motlop, Durdin, Fisher and JSOS would be performing better or they wouldn't be on the park. At the very least we've seen far better from both Fish and Jack.

Ed and Cowan have been baffling selections.

When has our game plan this year worked to advantage to the point that it looked great? I'm yet to see it...

It's obvious that slow ball movement and trying to pinpoint passes by foot only to bomb it into f50 and hope for the best is a shocking game plan but in particular for a group where their kicking skills are not their strength.

 

[Accidental genius]

Which contending team would have any of Motlop/Durdin/Fisher/Honey or Silvagni as a starting 22 player? How about Ed Curnow or Hollands or Cowan?

How many developing or ordinary players can any top8 worthy team carry ?

In order to really match it with teh best sides you need all these blokes to be able to 'match it' with their direct opponents.

I stated earlier in the year that the best defence and response to the fast forward game is man on man and win the contest - that is what Port demonstrated yesterday against St Kilda. Port also have a stacked forward line compared to Carlton as far as defensive pressure and alternative ways to goal - Port were able to match it one on one in teh forward fifty at the contest- there were no easy exits.

Every 'game plan' looks great when it is working to advantage. What 'game plan' do you suggest that Voss can execute carrying all these developing on not quite up to it bodies every week.

Maybe the simple truth is that Carlton has limited attacking and defending capability and limited game plan and tactical elbow room - because there is a very large discrepancy of talent between the best players and the rest...maybe the team has to 'outperform' real capability to just be competitive against teams which have so many of our players 'covered'. Maybe too many of teh players are actually unable to execute the game plan drills in a game - because they are just not good enough - yet or may never be.

Too easy to blame a coach and point to Weitering/Saad/Docherty/Cripps/Charlie and Harry as being more than enough to cruise into finals - it doesn't work like that - stars need the role players to be able to play their roles. I think the team and list is a few players short of even that - atm.

your argument may be valid for top 4 requirements but I don't agree for a top 8 finish. There is enough on the list to make top 8 with what weve got.

pretty much the same list that kicked arse start of last year.

im of the opinion that voss and his assistants should do better

you only need to look at our crappola f50 entries ...just fixing that alone would make us a better team.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Although we may have to wait until his hair turns grey

That'll probably be sometime around the bye.

 

[JustaBattler]

One could argue with a better system, Motlop, Durdin, Fisher and JSOS would be performing better or they wouldn't be on the park. At the very least we've seen far better from both Fish and Jack.

Ed and Cowan have been baffling selections.

When has our game plan this year worked to advantage to the point that it looked great? I'm yet to see it...

It's obvious that slow ball movement and trying to pinpoint passes by foot only to bomb it into f50 and hope for the best is a shocking game plan but in particular for a group where their kicking skills are not their strength.

your argument may be valid for top 4 requirements but I don't agree for a top 8 finish. There is enough on the list to make top 8 with what weve got.

pretty much the same list that kicked arse start of last year.

im of the opinion that voss and his assistants should do better

you only need to look at our crappola f50 entries ...just fixing that alone would make us a better team.

so the playing personnel have nothing to do with anything....ok ...

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Bottom line is Red Haired coaches have a terrible record.
That is not any specific bias against redheads, just a fact.

Wasn't Norm Smith a redhead who had an unsuccessful stint at the lions until he went to Melbourne ..

 

[Blue_Fusion]

so the playing personnel have nothing to do with anything....ok ...

If that's your take out of it... good for you.

Pretty much akin to me saying to you "so the coaching has nothing to do with anything... ok ..."

 

[JustaBattler]

If that's your take out of it... good for you.

Happy to give the contra to all the mug commentary on Voss - sorry if you are offended by simple questions against your narratives.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Happy to give the contra to all the mug commentary on Voss - sorry if you are offended by simple questions against your narratives.

Looks like you're the one who's offended...