Coach Michael Voss

[jj1978]

I'm not interested more sackings, but I'm a bit underwhelmed with the coaching staff in terms of strategy & consistency thus far into Voss' tenure. It seems Voss has very little to do with tactics and is focused on man management - which is fine; so I'm not laying the blame at anyone in particular.

- We seem to have no real identity with the way we play - it was clearances but that's sort of been found out and we simply rely on talent to move the ball up the ground. We're that talented that we can generally get by and be in games doing this, which is kinda scary.

- In regards to clearances, our strategy seems to be simply to run forward of the footy at every 50/50 contest. It punishes teams when it works out but when it doesn't, we're punished even worse.

- It wouldn't surprise me one but if selection integrity was putting noses out of joint - Cerra came straight back in at the expense of Hewett, has underperformed, has now been hidden in the backline at the expense of Boyd (who was fit to play on the weekend? Happy to be corrected on that). Cottrell has come straight back in, struggled and is keeping Binns out (who is taking the piss in the VFL). The MC seems to be very talent orientated, they seem to give games based on name and potential - eg Fantasia & making Owies sub, and now what we're seeing with Cottrell & Cerra.

- I don't buy that our personnel needs work - sure it would be great if we had another KPD or a speedy midfielder, but honestly - Pies won a flag with Frampton as their KPD, Richmond won three flags with Castagna, they lost Rance and won 2 flags afterwards. No list is ever complete without holes, the salary cap doesn't allow for it. It's up to the coaches to develop a game style that covers any small position deficiencies - have our coaches done that on a consistent basis? I don't reckon.

Anyway, all part of the ebbs and flows. Our window will be open for the next few years, I didn't think we'd be ready until 2025-2026, but geez given how open - and in my opinion, weak - the comp is this year, it's a golden opportunity to snag it and I have a feeling if we did, this groups confidence would make us almost unbeatable going into the next 4-5 years.

Yes, and also after almost 3 years with the list can't still have consistency in mindset over 4 quarters for a sustained period.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

I really like Voss and think he has done a great job, but like all coaches he has weaknesses.

My question is do we support him with the right people? My gut feel is Voss isn't a massive tactical person and is not very flexible in changing things up.

Hansen is apparently very good tactically but I don't see much in the others.

Personally, I would like us to change a few things around our coaching set up at years end and bring in some fresh ideas

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

I'd be shocked if Voss has any say on anything majorly tactical on game day.

I remember on the Amazon Doco, there's a scene after 3QT (I think) of the 2020 GF, Dimma gets back in the box 1min after the quarter starts and asks his assistants 'alright what are we doing?' in a genuine tone of that part of the job not being his responsibility. He seemed to be focused on managing the players mindset and the little bits & pieces of play in the contest rather than anything tactically overarching.

Really opened my eyes to how little some coaches must have to do with tactics - wouldn't surprise if there's a similar setup with Voss.

 

[Soapy V]

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

Interesting. Never heard that

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I just assumed us and Sydney put in some really heavy July training sessions to set up for September. Is it really so doom and gloom?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Interesting. Never heard that

Was in October 2023, so fresh off the end of the year.

 

[blues4flag]

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

I'd be shocked if Voss has any say on anything majorly tactical on game day.

I remember on the Amazon Doco, there's a scene after 3QT (I think) of the 2020 GF, Dimma gets back in the box 1min after the quarter starts and asks his assistants 'alright what are we doing?' in a genuine tone of that part of the job not being his responsibility. He seemed to be focused on managing the players mindset and the little bits & pieces of play in the contest rather than anything tactically overarching.

Really opened my eyes to how little some coaches must have to do with tactics - wouldn't surprise if there's a similar setup with Voss.

Which really isn't a surprise to me. Key part of any leadership position is to delegate.

I'd suggest a coach that excels at both strategy and player management is a bit of a unicorn. Far better for mine to hire a brilliant strategist to supplement the head coach, whose primary responsibility should be to inspire the players and drive standards.

I'd imagine it's a lot easier to find a "nerd" who intimately understands strategy, than it is to find a leader with integrity, passion and the ability to inspire. Voss is a leader of men.

 

[Arr0w]

I just assumed us and Sydney put in some really heavy July training sessions to set up for September. Is it really so doom and gloom?

Plenty of conspiracies and innuendos start to surface during lean patches

Balanced analysis of Voss/gameplan is certainly debate worthy, but the competency of our assistants? Comical

Not one single side has maintained consistent form during the course of the season

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Agree with this, a coaches job is to bring out a teams strengths and hide their weaknesses, I believe we rely too much on the natural talent of our stars rather than a team gameplan.

It's true that's how we're playing the last month.

But the month prior, it was not. Our role players like Newman, Boyd, Cowan, Fogarty, Cincotta etc were all being heralded for the great job they were doing and we were winning without so much reliance on our stars. Look at the game against * for example, Charlie only kicked 2, Harry only 1. Cripps only 19 disposals, Walsh 22... TDK was our best mid probably along with Hewett. Yet we never really felt threatened in that game.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Question I have is when Voss started and we were struggling his message was all about defence first. It seemed to be his entire focus and it looked to be clicking in the 2nd half of last year.

That seems to have fallen away dramatically all over the ground.

What happened?

I fell the biggest part of the problem at the moment is our midfield pressure, no midfield pressure destroys your defence no matter how good it is.

We are back to relying on Cripps and I feel this is because our rotations haven't been pushed enough.
The start of the year Walsh was on fire, to the point of being tagged every week freeing up Crippa. No doubt he is injured or hindered at the moment, if he is still to play take him out of the guts and put him on the wing, less crash and bash, more run. He got beaten up badly against North.

Hewitt was playing solid football and then taken out for Cerra who is now playing in the back half??? Kennedy another hard nut not in the middle enough. These 2 may be slow in pace but are hard and quick by hand and we need to beat up on the opposition mids, make them earn every possession.

Pitto, big unit, not highly skilled, has to start using his brute strength on the opposition mids and ruckman, because our mids are shown no mercy.

Cincotta provides grunt and pace, should be in the middle, Cerra, Eli all need more time in there to throw the opposition off their game, we are becoming to predictable and coaches are shutting down our strengths.

People see defence, midfield and attack, it is all connected and one won't work well without the other, this is why Collingwood did so well last year, they believed in their system. Hawthorn this year are so slick as they have jumped on board Mitchells game plan.

I'm not here to preach to you Soapy as I believe you have asked a question you already know the answer to.

The frustration everyone is feeling at the moment and early last year is because we all know what this side is capable of and we all want the same end result. Yeah we have holes in our list but so does every side and that's where the coaching staff now have to earn their money to get these boys back on track or we will struggle to finish in the top 8.

 

[Soapy V]

I fell the biggest part of the problem at the moment is our midfield pressure, no midfield pressure destroys your defence no matter how good it is.

We are back to relying on Cripps and I feel this is because our rotations haven't been pushed enough.
The start of the year Walsh was on fire, to the point of being tagged every week freeing up Crippa. No doubt he is injured or hindered at the moment, if he is still to play take him out of the guts and put him on the wing, less crash and bash, more run. He got beaten up badly against North.

Hewitt was playing solid football and then taken out for Cerra who is now playing in the back half??? Kennedy another hard nut not in the middle enough. These 2 may be slow in pace but are hard and quick by hand and we need to beat up on the opposition mids, make them earn every possession.

Pitto, big unit, not highly skilled, has to start using his brute strength on the opposition mids and ruckman, because our mids are shown no mercy.

Cincotta provides grunt and pace, should be in the middle, Cerra, Eli all need more time in there to throw the opposition off their game, we are becoming to predictable and coaches are shutting down our strengths.

People see defence, midfield and attack, it is all connected and one won't work well without the other, this is why Collingwood did so well last year, they believed in their system. Hawthorn this year are so slick as they have jumped on board Mitchells game plan.

I'm not here to preach to you Soapy as I believe you have asked a question you already know the answer to.

The frustration everyone is feeling at the moment and early last year is because we all know what this side is capable of and we all want the same end result. Yeah we have holes in our list but so does every side and that's where the coaching staff now have to earn their money to get these boys back on track or we will struggle to finish in the top 8.

I actually don't

Good post

 

[Soapy V]

Was in October 2023, so fresh off the end of the year.

Well worth a listen!!!

 

[Blue Pulse]

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

I'd be shocked if Voss has any say on anything majorly tactical on game day.

I remember on the Amazon Doco, there's a scene after 3QT (I think) of the 2020 GF, Dimma gets back in the box 1min after the quarter starts and asks his assistants 'alright what are we doing?' in a genuine tone of that part of the job not being his responsibility. He seemed to be focused on managing the players mindset and the little bits & pieces of play in the contest rather than anything tactically overarching.

Really opened my eyes to how little some coaches must have to do with tactics - wouldn't surprise if there's a similar setup with Voss.

Every coach should do it as every set of eyes see something different, you just need to read the after game comments on here.
Some coaches will have a feel for what is happening in the game, the set plays and how to shut it down or expose the opposition. Some will get to emotionally involved in the game and lose sight of what they should be doing, the more discussion, the better.

 

[Arr0w]

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

I'd be shocked if Voss has any say on anything majorly tactical on game day.

I remember on the Amazon Doco, there's a scene after 3QT (I think) of the 2020 GF, Dimma gets back in the box 1min after the quarter starts and asks his assistants 'alright what are we doing?' in a genuine tone of that part of the job not being his responsibility. He seemed to be focused on managing the players mindset and the little bits & pieces of play in the contest rather than anything tactically overarching.

Really opened my eyes to how little some coaches must have to do with tactics - wouldn't surprise if there's a similar setup with Voss.

It's a great listen, I'd encourage every supporter to listen to the episode in full, it reinforced that you maintain your focus on your strategies and processes and shut off the white noise, specifically that Voss and assistants can't coach

Cook never states the level of strength of Voss's tactical ability, merely what areas he focuses on and which areas he delegates and oversees

 

[CarmenSandiego]

It's a great listen, I'd encourage every supporter to listen to the episode in full, it reinforced that you maintain your focus on your strategies and processes and shut off the white noise, specifically that Voss and assistants can't coach

Cook never states the level of strength of Voss's tactical ability, merely what areas he focuses on and which areas he delegates and oversees

I'll have to listen again. I somewhat remember him saying when hiring Voss there was a strategy around covering for any shortcomings, and it's resulted in him delegating certain areas (being tactics) - was maybe more of a putting two and two together from me.

 

[sosos]

I'm not sure where to post this , so mods please move as appropriate.

Coming to you as a person who floated the pooh pooh'd idea of playing H as 2nd ruck.

I have a bit of a radical idea to solve the 2nd KPD. Could we do a reverse SDK and play TDK as a CHB? (I know he is injured, this is speculative)
There are some who will immediately say 'but he is our best ruck option, we cannot go ahead with Pitto as first ruck'. That is only partly correct IMHO. Pitto is no TDK in the ruck, but he is servicable, and our biggest structural weakness is in the key defender post.
Tom is certainly more than adequate in the air, is competative, has the size to play on the Gorilla's, is fantastic below his knees for a huge man. Weiters could trust him.

Yes, I know we would lose his contested possession game in the centre bounce, but what is the bigger problem?

Radical idea, but food for thought?

I had the same idea. Why not give it a go?

 

[gbatman]

Agree….but I am getting tired of our recent coaches all needing support etc. I want a coach that can coach tactically and emotionally.

The modern day footy coach needs to be innovative…and come up with a game plan and a list that is effective during that era.

Clarko the grub and hawks were super impressive with their maintain possession and good kicking style which netted them 3-4 flags.

Hardwick introduced the forward press and a list that played it so well - 3 flags

Fly went to filth with a clear plan …tweaked the list and played an effective game plan which produced a flag. Winning so many tight finishes could not have been coincidence…they had a plan

We’re in no man’s land still trying to learn the turnover game with a list that doesn’t appear to be suitably skilled for it. Our mids can’t sustain good slick ball movement often enough to creat goal opportunities from.

We also have one of the best forward combos in H and Charlie but our delivery is often crap…our go to is kick it long h or Charlie will sort it out. Doesn’t work against good defending teams unfortunately.

We are playing catch up whilst other teams are developing game plans that are blowing oppos out of the water…latest being the hawks…again.

Imagine us going to Adelaide to thrash the crows??

Hardwick and Clarkson were surrounded by some of the very best assistant coaches going around, many whom went on to be good senior coaches or good assistants at other clubs. Clarkson has been very open about letting his assistants take over.

Our assistants are mostly people who were pretty much let go by their clubs.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I think it's hard for us to get coaching staff because of our history. Because we have been sacking so many coaches over the last 20 years the job security at Carlton has been very poor and we are currently in a position where we are trying to prove ourselves that we are a good place to work at if you are a coach of any level.

Voss comes to us after mediocre results coaching Brisbane and ok results at Port Adelaide.

Hansen Was at the Bulldogs when they had their success.

Graves, not 100% on his role. Was at Port and North. Can't say they were clubs that were flying.

Hamill was at St Kilda who weren't much good. Had a coaching clean out.

Tim Clark was coaching our midfield when we were terrible. Then with the gold coast. Did a bit at Richmond, not in their good years.

Jordan Russell coached Footscray in the VFL. Was at the Dogs for his flag so that is something.

Power I think coached junior football, seems highly rated.

Ebert, another from Port.

Lonergan, coached juniors, played at a strong club.

Baker I think was into junior coaching and Hawthorn but I don't know when

It's not that exciting.

 

[Accidental genius]

Hardwick and Clarkson were surrounded by some of the very best assistant coaches going around, many whom went on to be good senior coaches or good assistants at other clubs. Clarkson has been very open about letting his assistants take over.

Our assistants are mostly people who were pretty much let go by their clubs.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I think it's hard for us to get coaching staff because of our history. Because we have been sacking so many coaches over the last 20 years the job security at Carlton has been very poor and we are currently in a position where we are trying to prove ourselves that we are a good place to work at if you are a coach of any level.

Voss comes to us after mediocre results coaching Brisbane and ok results at Port Adelaide.

Hansen Was at the Bulldogs when they had their success.

Graves, not 100% on his role. Was at Port and North. Can't say they were clubs that were flying.

Hamill was at St Kilda who weren't much good. Had a coaching clean out.

Tim Clark was coaching our midfield when we were terrible. Then with the gold coast. Did a bit at Richmond, not in their good years.

Jordan Russell coached Footscray in the VFL. Was at the Dogs for his flag so that is something.

Power I think coached junior football, seems highly rated.

Ebert, another from Port.

Lonergan, coached juniors, played at a strong club.

Baker I think was into junior coaching and Hawthorn but I don't know when

It's not that exciting.

Yeah exactly my thoughts too

We can’t sack coaches…not an option.

Best to try and bring in good assistants where possible and ride this out with Voss at the helm.

 

[Arr0w]

Hardwick and Clarkson were surrounded by some of the very best assistant coaches going around, many whom went on to be good senior coaches or good assistants at other clubs. Clarkson has been very open about letting his assistants take over.

Our assistants are mostly people who were pretty much let go by their clubs.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I think it's hard for us to get coaching staff because of our history. Because we have been sacking so many coaches over the last 20 years the job security at Carlton has been very poor and we are currently in a position where we are trying to prove ourselves that we are a good place to work at if you are a coach of any level.

Voss comes to us after mediocre results coaching Brisbane and ok results at Port Adelaide.

Hansen Was at the Bulldogs when they had their success.

Graves, not 100% on his role. Was at Port and North. Can't say they were clubs that were flying.

Hamill was at St Kilda who weren't much good. Had a coaching clean out.

Tim Clark was coaching our midfield when we were terrible. Then with the gold coast. Did a bit at Richmond, not in their good years.

Jordan Russell coached Footscray in the VFL. Was at the Dogs for his flag so that is something.

Power I think coached junior football, seems highly rated.

Ebert, another from Port.

Lonergan, coached juniors, played at a strong club.

Baker I think was into junior coaching and Hawthorn but I don't know when

It's not that exciting.

Think this was covered mid last year

Do you think the common denominator with Hardwick and Clarkson, was a talented list in their prime?

 

[gbatman]

Think this was covered mid last year

Do you think the common denominator with Hardwick and Clarkson, was a talented list in their prime?

Big part of it for sure. Coaches get the extra 10% out. Sometimes that is the difference between finishing 4th and winning it. Having a top list is a requirement of all flags.

Yeah exactly my thoughts too

We can’t sack coaches…not an option.

Best to try and bring in good assistants where possible and ride this out with Voss at the helm.

I think Voss is a good head coach. Head coach can't do it all. The coaching group is a team and must perform as a team. No weak links. Collingwood are another example of a club who always seem to have top level assistant coaches. Geelong another. They are clubs who are never down long and have had recent success.

 

[Accidental genius]

Big part of it for sure. Coaches get the extra 10% out. Sometimes that is the difference between finishing 4th and winning it. Having a top list is a requirement of all flags.


I think Voss is a good head coach. Head coach can't do it all. The coaching group is a team and must perform as a team. No weak links. Collingwood are another example of a club who always seem to have top level assistant coaches. Geelong another. They are clubs who are never down long and have had recent success.

Maybe we offer better salaries to attract the better ones - within soft cap?

 

[jpfalvo]

It's been widely accepted at the club that he's not strong tactically. Brian Cook mentioned it on a podcast at the start of the year - actually a great listen, I'll try and find a link, is just on Spotify. Just mentions it's not his strongest point and everyone has weaknesses, it's about who you put them around them to compensate for it.

I'd be shocked if Voss has any say on anything majorly tactical on game day.

I remember on the Amazon Doco, there's a scene after 3QT (I think) of the 2020 GF, Dimma gets back in the box 1min after the quarter starts and asks his assistants 'alright what are we doing?' in a genuine tone of that part of the job not being his responsibility. He seemed to be focused on managing the players mindset and the little bits & pieces of play in the contest rather than anything tactically overarching.

Really opened my eyes to how little some coaches must have to do with tactics - wouldn't surprise if there's a similar setup with Voss.

Voss is known as the motivator, not the tactician. This has been on the record before.

Also, should be noted that the Prendercast boys said when was first hired, that Carlton looked at Kingsley but thought he wasnt marketable as senior coach

But rated him highly enough to offer him an assistant role.

For me, Voss is a 2nd time senior coach. He knows the game. Not many go out on their own terms...

He should be demanding better support to fill his own deficiencies.

I think our coaching group is underwhelming, inclusive of Hansen, who if he takes the West Coast job will be used as cannon fodder for their rebuild

We need to see change off field and onfield in 2025

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[jpfalvo]

Hardwick and Clarkson were surrounded by some of the very best assistant coaches going around, many whom went on to be good senior coaches or good assistants at other clubs. Clarkson has been very open about letting his assistants take over.

Our assistants are mostly people who were pretty much let go by their clubs.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I think it's hard for us to get coaching staff because of our history. Because we have been sacking so many coaches over the last 20 years the job security at Carlton has been very poor and we are currently in a position where we are trying to prove ourselves that we are a good place to work at if you are a coach of any level.

Voss comes to us after mediocre results coaching Brisbane and ok results at Port Adelaide.

Hansen Was at the Bulldogs when they had their success.

Graves, not 100% on his role. Was at Port and North. Can't say they were clubs that were flying.

Hamill was at St Kilda who weren't much good. Had a coaching clean out.

Tim Clark was coaching our midfield when we were terrible. Then with the gold coast. Did a bit at Richmond, not in their good years.

Jordan Russell coached Footscray in the VFL. Was at the Dogs for his flag so that is something.

Power I think coached junior football, seems highly rated.

Ebert, another from Port.

Lonergan, coached juniors, played at a strong club.

Baker I think was into junior coaching and Hawthorn but I don't know when

It's not that exciting.

Add Matt Kreuzer to this list as well.

I did a comparison on coaching count on our list versus the top teams.

We seem to have more coaches than any other team 11 v ave 5 to 7.

Is it feasible, we have too many cooks in the kitchen per se?

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[Aphrodite]

2024 Coaching Panel :-

 

[Arr0w]

So if we sack 2 we can have our own Brady bunch

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

God some of the dross in here is funny. Where were the discussions about how bad our coaches are when we flogged Geelong by 63 at full strength and looked like we were the only team that would be able to give Sydney a challenge?

Is Sydney poorly coached because they've got a form slump?

We're the Cats poorly coached when they were in their form slump?

Laughable stuff in here