Coach Michael Voss

[Bostonian]

I don't agree. Players that can't execute basic kicking skills can not impliment any game plan. How about we delist a number of square pegs and draft round ones. It is time for player accountability after 20 yrs

If you can't kick for poop then you try a fast moving plan via handball.

The Western Bulldogs when playing at their peak used a lot of fast movement via handball to get the ball forward.

Sure we need to delist a lot of dead wood, but that's part of another issue we have in that we are too chummy with players and not brutal enough with our list.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Uh I think there's some over simplification going on here and conflating various elements - pies looked horribly skilled in bucks last season.

I don't agree, our players turned over 1 in 3 uncontested kicking possessions in defence against dogs during first half Kicks like Acres missing a 20m pass in the first Qtr, resulting in a goal. Not hitting a 20m pass is squarely on the players

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

The issue is that playing faster means there is more room to hit kicks. Once the zone has time to set up with slow you have thread the eye of a needle with every kick.

No-one was talking about how skilled the Pies were with there slow play under Buckley in 2021.

Playing fast for 4 quarters isn't achievable IMO. I agree that we need to do it more though and Vossy has to strike the right balance. You still need to convert.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

The Prendercast podcast, like most podcasts, are whingefest. Next to no analysis

I personally find it one of the better ones. I find they at least offer some different idea's and views than the 'cliche-fest' most others are.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I don't agree, our players turned over 1 in 3 uncontested kicking possessions in defence against dogs during first half Kicks like Acres missing a 20m pass in the first Qtr, resulting in a goal. Not hitting a 20m pass is squarely on the players

You can make any group of people in any field of work/belief/life look bad if you want to focus on one or a small number of events.

 

[JustaBattler]

So we changed forward line structure & kicked more goals in a row. I understand now, there wasn’t a change in game style & method, thanks for explaining it, I feel foolish that I (& most of the footy watching world) were so badly mistaken

WE didnt do jack S**T - VOSS changed the structure by pulling Charlie aAND Harry back to HFF and opening some space - this is a Welcome VOSS thread one you and your mates have been busy using to bag the coach - your biggest oft-repeated complaint being he has no plan B he is a bad coach he can't train players to kick goals .,..blah blah blah...

you and your mates have gone OFF how Lyon is the coach that was missed because of 'poor reasons' - now that this great coach has been pantsed
and back to it is VOSS's fault that players aren't kicking set shots..

and NO it wasn't the forward structure that changed ANYTHING much it was players actually kicking easy set shots that were missed in the first half...that was the reason Carlton got to a lead for the first time in a game - in fact if the goals weren't kicked - Vossin your eyes would have had no "plan B"


absolutely ridiculous stuff.

 

[Blue1980]

yeah, also I'm glad we can play defensively but why can't we play and switch gears?

Play quick football and score heavily ... play defensively if we need to preserve a lead or to stop a run on from the other team.

It's just about which method is our Plan A. At the moment I think they've flipped it the wrong way.

100% it’s the wrong way around. What we needed to get better at was stopping run ons and momentum swings, then get the game back onto our own terms.

Now it’s like we are premeditating it, scared of the opposition being able to hurt us.

The weird thing is, playing this super structured game means we are stodgy and not on the move.

It should only be employed to slow games down when we need to, not as a beginning strategy of every match.

 

[Blue1980]

Playing fast for 4 quarters isn't achievable IMO. I agree that we need to do it more though and Vossy has to strike the right balance. You still need to convert.

Not saying it is sustainable, but we have overcorrected.

 

[Broadside]

Sloppy execution on the field during game time is the coaches fault

Do you think Harry should be instructed by the coach to take a normal set shot for goal? Sloppy execution is all on players or sloppy team rules?

 

[JustaBattler]

Do you think Harry should be instructed by the coach to take a normal set shot for goal? Sloppy execution is all on players or sloppy team rules?

Hard no for me.

I think Harry should kick the way he practices and the way he feels most comfortable doing- not as if players don't know what works and what doesn't - come on mate - this bloke is out of kicking form atm - doesn't take much for it to click back and when it does he will come back stronger every player has down periods in certain aspects of their game.

 

[Blue1980]

Hard no for me.

I think Harry should kick the way he practices and the way he feels most comfortable doing- not as if players don't know what works and what doesn't - come on mate - this bloke is out of kicking form atm - doesn't take much for it to click back and when it does he will come back stronger every player has down periods in certain aspects of their game.

The issue with Harry is he uses different routines all the time, even for shots from the same position.

 

[Blue and Blue]

The issue with Harry is he uses different routines all the time, even for shots from the same position.

Exactly

 

[Stamos]

Hard no for me.

I think Harry should kick the way he practices and the way he feels most comfortable doing- not as if players don't know what works and what doesn't - come on mate - this bloke is out of kicking form atm - doesn't take much for it to click back and when it does he will come back stronger every player has down periods in certain aspects of their game.

That might have held water 2 years ago.
But he has deteriorated significantly since then.

He doesn't have a set routine, which all great goal-kickers think is fundamental. And further, it is difficult to have a proper set routine when going for a snap, because it changes due to angle and distance.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Brett Lee had chronic no ball issues. He made them better when - I forget who he credits - stood at umpire in the nets and called him for no balls at training. Basic ass solution but it took and external influence because he was searching for more complex answers.

 

[Michael Jezz]

You can make any group of people in any field of work/belief/life look bad if you want to focus on one or a small number of events.

One third of your uncontested kicks is not a small number of events. That is where the game is lost

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

One third of your uncontested kicks is not a small number of events. That is where the game is lost

1 game is a small number mate, 10 games is a small number when we've seen a 10 game stretch with great skills. Even on an individual level. Cripps kicking was good last year. He kicked more goals than he missed and stopped dump kicking. That's a sample size far bigger than this season.

So no. One game isn't a lot of events. There's enough evidence around for most players on this list to show they have the required skills

 

[Arr0w]

Brett Lee had chronic no ball issues. He made them better when - I forget who he credits - stood at umpire in the nets and called him for no balls at training. Basic ass solution but it took and external influence because he was searching for more complex answers.

Lee was a dumb cricketer though, doesn't take many braincells to shift your mark back a couple of inches

 

[Arr0w]

I personally find it one of the better ones. I find they at least offer some different idea's and views than the 'cliche-fest' most others are.

Might be the case, but anything that's actually different from what's suggested here?

Pommylovescarlton has way better content

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Lee was a dumb cricketer though, doesn't take many braincells to shift your mark back a couple of inches

Plenty of dumb athletes running around - or at least ones trying to overcomplicate things.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Might be the case, but anything that's actually different from what's suggested here?

Pommylovescarlton has way better content

Well a lot of stuff gets suggested on here I tend to find the Prendercast a more considered analysis of the games whereas some of the others are overtaken by bluster. I always liked the Carlton Show and it's humour and find the Prendercast the closest thing to it.

I love Pommy as well - listen to him and Terry a lot. Terry's a good host and 'stays in his lane'. Pommy is a legend - he really has a good crack and comes up with some gems in his analysis although sometimes contradicts himself there times in the one sentence such is his shotgun approach at delivery.

 

[thylacine60]

I knew that eventually the players would turn against him once the pressure of expectations came. Are we really surprised that this playing group and board are throwing middle management under the bus again?

I don’t know if vossy is the right man. I’m sort of leaning towards him probably not being the guy but I do know for certain that this playing group and board are already showing signs of fracturing.

If he can manage to get us going in the next 9 games while the circus is running in the background, even if we go 5-4, then I’d seriously consider giving him an extension because he’ll once again get us into finals contention in spite of what he’s up against.

Players are already turning their heads, losing trust in the organisation and each other. We havent built a foundation that can withstand the scrutiny of expectations and that’s on the club hierarchy.

I love the emblem but some of the people supposedly supporting it at the moment are making me sick.

 

[Sector 7G]

Playing fast for 4 quarters isn't achievable IMO. I agree that we need to do it more though and Vossy has to strike the right balance. You still need to convert.

Even when we are playing slow we need to play quicker. Players like Young wait their full 10 seconds before switching so that any chance of opening up the game has gone and you end up losing territory. There needs to be a greater sense of urgency.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

So you’re just going to ignore the reality of the situation? There’s spot fires everywhere mate.

 

[goreds]

Hypothetical question. Are there any current senior coaches that we could approach to take the job regardless of contract status? We need the best coach full stop, not just the best coach available. Fremantle did it in 2011.

Who gets hurt if we ask the question behind closed doors? I would be quietly fishing around Chris Scott, Damien Hardwick and John Longmire. Other possibilities are Ken Hinkley, Adam Simpson and Luke Beveridge.

Or who are the best assistant coaches that we should consider for the job? This is more of an unknown but Voss is not doing it for me and doesn't look like turning it around any time soon.

Who’s to say we haven’t already had the passing conversation or two…

 

[goreds]

Lee was a dumb cricketer though, doesn't take many braincells to shift your mark back a couple of inches

I’m sure you’ve met your fair share of footballers Arr0w … I would say I’m yet to meet one rocket scientist amongst them….