Coach Michael Voss

[Blue_Fusion]

Train the way you play. Cliche - yes but true and one thing that all the greats do to distinguish themselves is exactly that. Consistently train the way they play more often than the rest.

Can't say after Teague and now this that this club trains very well. Not with the way they 'execute' nor with the running patterns nor player development/improvement.

100%

To those saying "oh well how do you know" etc. It's obvious... they are unable to execute under pressure and that's been the case for years. When their confidence is down, they can't even execute under no pressure...

 

[Juddernaut08]

I can dig that.....

ohh dig that crazy rhythm!

 

[CeeDee88]

Saw this and thought it was quite good lol

 

[Bostonian]

There is a fair bit of accuracy in this, our supporters are hungry and impatient. We also generate a lot of media attention because of the volume of our supporters and how loud we are on social media and talkback.. we make the media companies a fortune and ensure all the 'experts' have something to talk about and the noise adds to the pressure to a point where the board feel they need to act. We need Cook, Sayers & Williams to come out firmly and acknowledge that the season hasnt started to plan but then back in Voss and the players to turn it around..

How are the fans impatient?

The club hasn't won anything since 1995.

How much money have the fans poured into the club since then?

At some stage it gets to the point of the fans loyalty being taken advantage of.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Why wait 3 more years? Why not admit we need help and say while Voss is the main man and can inspire effort and determination he's not the brightest tool in the shed. Work hard to bring in assistant coaches/mentors ASAP - like tomorrow - who can help with the gameplan and help him to execute. Get Harry a bloody kicking coach?

Why do Collingwood get to finish top 4 in their first year of a new coach, and sitting on top of the ladder as of this week. Why do we always have to wait and wait and wait, only to watch teams shoot high above us.

This team is no longer young, our stars are getting older. If you suggest the coach isnt the problem, then the players are. Keep the coach and do some aggressive trading, or bring in a new coach. If we just twiddle our fingers and not change anything next year, we won't just magically come good.

Something has got to be done and no one knows what the right answer is.

Because collingwood have a list that played in a grandfinal in 2018 underpinned by a high functioning board and football department

 

[jj1978]

I'd suggest that the supporters are the problem. Sack the coach. Trade the players. The captain is no good. The football manager should have been sacked. CEO is a washed up has-been. President is a lackey to the board.

Bring in the next group, a few months of optimism. As soon as things get hard, pile on the pressure. Sack the coach. Trade the players. Repeat ad nauseam.

Perhaps it's time we try something different and actually back in a coach and playing group to get it right.

If you want to see the difference between the good clubs and the bad clubs, look for the ones that back in a coach. If you want to see the moment teams transition from being a bad club to a good club, look for the moments they start backing in their coach.

Bit harsh.... we kept Pagan and Ratten for 5 years (100+ games), Bolton for 4 and Mick and Teague were stupid appointments in the first place and shouldn't have lasted a season but almost completed 3 each.

You can go through even my history on this forum and see me supporting Pagan basically until about 3 weeks prior to him getting the bullet. I did not want Ratten sacked, I did not want Bolton sacked (Mick and Teague never wanted them and the writing was on the wall), Voss sadly seemed our only choice of whom he's failed to get the gig at this club 3 times prior and how many times at others so does leave me wondering why now? what elevated him all of a sudden?

Voss won't get the chop this year...there'll be changes in coaching and fitness personnel, hopefully some necessary player movement.... but if there is no significant changes and improvement to our teams game day output and results by this time next season what would you like a lot of us supporters who have sat through pretty much 30 seasons worth next year to expect? Also come end of next season we may have a new president, CEO, etc so continuity is going to be impacted somewhat.

 

[Michael Jezz]

How are the fans impatient?

The club hasn't won anything since 1995.

How much money have the fans poured into the club since then?

At some stage it gets to the point of the fans loyalty being taken advantage of.

Yout 20+ year point is correct.
The fans are impatient if they expect execution of a transition game plan in 30 games with a list that is devoid of kicking skills

 

[bmaurizio]

Our team is lacking in skill, speed and a credible flexible game plan.
Theses are the glaring problem areas, which must be rectified if we are to enjoy success & finals appearances again.
Club needs to reconnect with the modern game style it’s evolving continuously, we’re losing precious time.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Yout 20+ year point is correct.
The fans are impatient if they expect execution of a transition game plan in 30 games with a list that is devoid of kicking skills

And that Voss identified a need to be able to slow down games and control tempo, after we were having runs or 5+ goals kicked against us regularly and were unable to defend leads in round 22 & 23. I am hopeful that the current game plan we have had for the first 9 weeks was correcting this, which we have done effectively with the exception of the Adelaide first quarter, however we have sacificed our ability to score and the gameplan now needs to evlolve/pivot back to the point where we are not always on the back foot.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Yout 20+ year point is correct.
The fans are impatient if they expect execution of a transition game plan in 30 games with a list that is devoid of kicking skills

Wasn't devoid of kicking skill at 8-2.

 

[bourbons]

So what are we saying - it would be the end of the world if we didn't make finals ?

I mean.. it kinda is in footy terms for a few key players. Cripps won't play a final for his career, thats genuinely bonkers. Bloke has carried us from pretty much his 3rd year, he deserves a lot better than that.

 

[Blue and Blue]

How are the fans impatient?

The club hasn't won anything since 1995.

How much money have the fans poured into the club since then?

At some stage it gets to the point of the fans loyalty being taken advantage of.

Turn it up.
Nobody makes you pay anything. And loyalty is freely given .

 

[skadoosh]

Our team is lacking in skill, speed and a credible flexible game plan.
Theses are the glaring problem areas, which must be rectified if we are to enjoy success & finals appearances again.
Club needs to reconnect with the modern game style it’s evolving continuously, we’re losing precious time.

What do we have - and love to talk up? Our 'talent'

 

[bourbons]

Who has improved? I can name a lot who have regressed.

Literally every player on the list bar Cerra, Curnow, Owies and possibly Newman imo.

Not even sure how thats possible to be honest. Gotta be a fair mental component, I think the end to last season has done a number on them.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Sorry - but do you you seriously think the club, it's coaches, the board, the players - do not have ambitions to play finals and win premierships ? Do you think they sat down at the start of they year and planned on 9th ??


Cooks comment was -"It wouldn't be the end of the world” if the club didn't make the finals".

So what are we saying - it would be the end of the world if we didn't make finals ?

Of course not. However the season hasn't exactly panned out the way many of us supporters had hoped has it? The output from the club in my opinion has been disappointing, feel free to disagree but I expect stronger words to be used that what the team are putting up on game day isn't meeting expectation

And again, its not the end of the world, what a stupid thing to say. In the context of being an invested supporter looking at the talent on our list I expect this team to make finals, it is a failure if they don't. Its not the end of the world but it is a failure of the Carlton Football Club of where we should be at.

 

[JustaBattler]

The idea of continuity is to progressively get better.

progressively better isn't measured by W/L at a point in time - if you think that is the case you know nothing about anything - John Snow

We are doing the opposite of that, we are regressing.

I don't have the space patience or time to explain how your self-evidentiary truth is flawed

Voss has never been a decent head coach at AFL level and was a poor appointment at the time.

You have zero evidence to say any of that except your obvious entitled anger which makes you feel good and righteous and just makes me scratch my head whilst stifling laughter

He has zero runs on the board to suggest he'll turn into a high level head coach long term.

You have no evidence to show he will.

Voss is trying to develop and teach the players to play 4 quarter competitive football against any team - working in an environment with obvious list and player limitations so obvious they have been pointed out by me and others since he arrived - the proof of what I say is watching games and player performance against the opposition - rather than watching games with expectations about a win or sack coach glasses on....

I'll say it again people with entitlement issues as evidenced in posts like this might get some comfort from similar people who share similar feelings - but that has nothing to do with how the real world works...or will ever work. In a competitive environment every team is trying to improve every year and no team starts from teh same place or has the same access to the same assets to deploy - so iterative improvement is what every Club is looking to achieve all the time - and what may look like improvement based on a point in time W/L ratio may actually be going backwards and vica versa

The first and sustainable sign of improvement to my eye is the fact that Carlton isn't losing games by ten goals anymore- and a bad defeat is now measured in 3-4 goals - against anyone...

Unfortunately these 3-4 goal losses experienced so far this year could have been wins - bar execution of basics- something which no coach has ANY control over during live game time.

You may not wish to look at facts - that is your prerogative - but I am also entitled to use facts rather than emotional outburst to put an alternative POV.

 

[JustaBattler]

How are the fans impatient?

The club hasn't won anything since 1995.

How much money have the fans poured into the club since then?

At some stage it gets to the point of the fans loyalty being taken advantage of.

Here is some serious advice to you and all your type of 'fan' - If you are concerned about the past - consider following your own advice and choose a different team to be a 'fan' of- a 'winning team' who will repay your money and time with what you are seeking out of game.

Good luck and best wishes

 

[JustaBattler]

And that Voss identified a need to be able to slow down games and control tempo, after we were having runs or 5+ goals kicked against us regularly and were unable to defend leads in round 22 & 23. I am hopeful that the current game plan we have had for the first 9 weeks was correcting this, which we have done effectively with the exception of the Adelaide first quarter, however we have sacificed our ability to score and the gameplan now needs to evlolve/pivot back to the point where we are not always on the back foot.

How about the players actually 'evolve' into players who can kick regulation set shots- which is an outcome of the game plan? If they cant 'evolve' into kicking easy set shots- maybe they can be 'revolved' elsewhere.

 

[Blue1980]

The Ian Prendercast guys came up with a good point this week, the R11 game when Weiters went down was a turning point for our style of play.

It’s like we were spooked, we’d be scored against too easily, which was kind of weird when we almost won that game even without Weiters.

Thinking further ahead from that game, we had a fairly uninspired win v Essendon and lost to the tigers, then beat the dockers with the slower defensive style which seemingly has given Voss and the MC their template of how they want us to play all the time.

The balance is totally out, seems a bizarre strategy to want to defend from the off, then only attack when it looks like all is lost. I think it’s a mindset thing as well, we are currently playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

 

[HarryFlashman]

progressively better isn't measured by W/L at a point in time - if you think that is the case you know nothing about anything - John Snow


I don't have the space patience or time to explain how your self-evidentiary truth is flawed


You have zero evidence to say any of that except your obvious entitled anger which makes you feel good and righteous and just makes me scratch my head whilst stifling laughter


Voss is trying to develop and teach the players to play 4 quarter competitive football against any team - working in an environment with obvious list and player limitations so obvious they have been pointed out by me and others since he arrived - the proof of what I say is watching games and player performance against the opposition - rather than watching games with expectations about a win or sack coach glasses on....

I'll say it again people with entitlement issues as evidenced in posts like this might get some comfort from similar people who share similar feelings - but that has nothing to do with how the real world works...or will ever work. In a competitive environment every team is trying to improve every year and no team starts from teh same place or has the same access to the same assets to deploy - so iterative improvement is what every Club is looking to achieve all the time - and what may look like improvement based on a point in time W/L ratio may actually be going backwards and vica versa

The first and sustainable sign of improvement to my eye is the fact that Carlton isn't losing games by ten goals anymore- and a bad defeat is now measured in 3-4 goals - against anyone...

Unfortunately these 3-4 goal losses experienced so far this year could have been wins - bar execution of basics- something which no coach has ANY control over during live game time.

You may not wish to look at facts - that is your prerogative - but I am also entitled to use facts rather than emotional outburst to put an alternative POV.

Here’s a fact for u - against the Dogs, Plan A (the Voss “system”) produced 1 goal in a half.
We threw that out in second half & actually hit the lead.
We are going backward under Voss plan A! And have been for some time.
He controls the game style, the style which is obvious to most supporters & the media as completely wrong for our players.

 

[bradfisher14]

Why do Collingwood get to finish top 4 in their first year of a new coach, and sitting on top of the ladder as of this week. Why do we always have to wait and wait and wait, only to watch teams shoot high above us.

Because for Collingwood, 2021 was an exception rather than the rule. They were in a grand final in 2018 and a kick away from one in 2019 - an important chunk of that side is still there setting standards within the playing group. In my lifetime, they have always had the foundational pieces of a winning culture set in place. This makes it much easier for them to reload and get back to winning ways. Their default position is to be competitive.

We on the other hand are trying to build the foundations of a competitive/winning culture from ground zero. Like many, I believe that this process is taking a bit longer than it should. But then again, perhaps we have all underestimated how deep the issues at the club run.

Train the way you play. Cliche - yes but true and one thing that all the greats do to distinguish themselves is exactly that. Consistently train the way they play more often than the rest.

Can't say after Teague and now this that this club trains very well. Not with the way they 'execute' nor with the running patterns nor player development/improvement.

Agreed. Every training session/warm up I have watched over the past two years I see blokes kicking nonchalant soft ones to their teammates. Then in game/match sim when they are required to hit low drilled passes under pressure, they can't do it. I think there's an obvious way to improve this - practice.

 

[JustaBattler]

Here’s a fact for u - against the Dogs, Plan A (the Voss “system”) produced 1 goal in a half.
We threw that out in second half & actually hit the lead.
We are going backward under Voss plan A! And have been for some time.
He controls the game style, the style which is obvious to most supporters & the media as completely wrong for our players.

Here is a fact for you - the players couldn't kick set shots - no game plan can be held hostage to player inadequacy or failure - why is this so difficult for really clever people like you to understand? ALl teh negative nelly stuff I am reading on here - clears the players of any responsibility for their lack of ability to perform under match conditions against determined opposiiton - too often.

We rw going backwards the sky is falling balh blah blah - play Dow...

zzzzzzzzzz

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Agreed. Every training session/warm up I have watched over the past two years I see blokes kicking nonchalant soft ones to their teammates. Then in game/match sim when they are required to hit low drilled passes under pressure, they can't do it. I think there's an obvious way to improve this - practice.

Yeah I get the feeling standards are too low. Driven by the coaching team and footy boss as a group. Hard to know though, but the sloppy execution usually means that.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeah I get the feeling standards are too low. Driven by the coaching team and footy boss as a group. Hard to know though, but the sloppy execution usually means that.

Sloppy execution on the field during game time is the coaches fault - not the players actually executing ?

just LOLworthy

 

[JustaBattler]

The Ian Prendercast guys came up with a good point this week, the R11 game when Weiters went down was a turning point for our style of play.

It’s like we were spooked, we’d be scored against too easily, which was kind of weird when we almost won that game even without Weiters.

Thinking further ahead from that game, we had a fairly uninspired win v Essendon and lost to the tigers, then beat the dockers with the slower defensive style which seemingly has given Voss and the MC their template of how they want us to play all the time.

The balance is totally out, seems a bizarre strategy to want to defend from the off, then only attack when it looks like all is lost. I think it’s a mindset thing as well, we are currently playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

They are boring macaroons