Why settle for less than that?
Coach Michael Voss
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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Exactly, stability comes from winning. We need to make the necessary changes to get results on the field.
From the other side of the fence it seems that the players are not as invested in the game plan of the coach now and are playing as individuals, and going by past history that usually means that the coach has lost them, so time should tell us if that is the case and if Voss will stick around or not.....
Not to mention the same complaints we hear about the next coach were made about the previous coach and the one before him and the one before him...
"stop kicking to Betts when he is 1 on two!", "our kick outs suck", "our ball movement is so poor", "Man our players don't work hard enough", "stop kicking to Owies when he is 1 on 2", "Why do we work so hard for no reward?", "Man this (insert high draft pick player) hasn't really come on has he?", "Stop kicking to a contest down the boundary line every time!", "Why do we have no forwards who apply pressure?", "We just need to get a better bottom 6", "Our list is good we just need a better coach!", "the coach has lost the players", "Why are we so easy to score against?", "why do the players look so confused out there?"
It all leads to the worst kind of player culture too because why the **** do they have to respect/fear the coach when they can always outlast him?
The list has proven nothing and "potential" means nothing when you got guys like Mcgovern on 750k making Kane Lucas look tough.
No idea why we keep backing in senior players who haven't shown they can perform under pressure consistently but we never give the coach time.
This isn't the EPL either where you can just buy half a team from all over the world either.
The coach was selected after a lengthy process. It'd be amatuer hour to sack the coach now and it ain't gonna happen.
My advice to all struggling with the results: deal with it. Cook isn't going to sack Voss yet, nor should he.
Stop eating our own FFS.
Something isn't right. Time for the whole club to lift. Rework the collective plan - because unless we've been lied to, they are playing a collective plan that stemmed from the players as much as anyone else. Voss said as much during the presser so let's see what comes of it.
One thing's for sure, it must be hard as hell right now for the footy department (players especially) to keep getting up off the canvas with all the hate being thrown their way by "supporters"
It's hard to watch us at times. But, support the club - you've got one job FFS.
My advice to all struggling with the results: deal with it. Cook isn't going to sack Voss yet, nor should he.
Stop eating our own FFS.
Something isn't right. Time for the whole club to lift. Rework the collective plan - because unless we've been lied to, they are playing a collective plan that stemmed from the players as much as anyone else. Voss said as much during the presser so let's see what comes of it.
One thing's for sure, it must be hard as hell right now for the footy department (players especially) to keep getting up off the canvas with all the hate being thrown their way by "supporters"
It's hard to watch us at times. But, support the club - you've got one job FFS.
Pretty easy, money.
Pagan hired by desperate Elliot
Malthouse hired by Swann and Sticks who overrated the list
Judd shopped himself to highest bidder..visy contract won out
Cripps and Charlie. Big long term contracts
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False. He did not.
Year on year improvement. 5th 8th 5th. Double figure wins
Struggled in finals.
When has anyone at carlton matched that record. Hardwick got a reprieve on his down year because of the demonstrated in season performance inclusive of winning streaks
We cant win 4 straight
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Sonny Jim
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Sonny Jim
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No but we really should move on Lloyd and put Diesel on notice.
We had the whole off-season to improve how we move the ball and we have regressed at a rapid rate.
Totally unacceptable and cannot be allowed to continue.
Irish BlueBagger
Ophidian Old Boys Season 37 Grand Final Winner
The Demons apart, we do have winnable games coming up against the Swans, Bombers, Suns and Hawks.
There is an opportunity there to get some badly needed wins, if we can find any semblance of form. If those run of games go against us though, then the situation will be very bleak imo.
There is an opportunity there to get some badly needed wins, if we can find any semblance of form. If those run of games go against us though, then the situation will be very bleak imo.
The lengthy process was Clarkson said no, Lyon was vetoed for political correctness, Voss was the only coach with senior experience left.
I've got one job and it's not footy related. Carlton is a passion, the fact supporting this club has seemed like a job for 20 years is the issue.
You can contend with 13-15 wins if you have some form / momentum and luck on the day. Eg Western Bulldogs 2016
The list is far from complete but the nucleus was there. It’s the lack of development that is one of our biggest problems. How many high picks have gone backwards and been traded away for nothing? It’s a killer. We’re looking at another rebuild just as Tassie will massively compromise the draft.
Interesting you say we're far from contending mode but it's a list that should win as many as 15 games.
I also thought that. We won 12 last year and lost 3 by a grand total of 10 points. With incremental improvement and the pain of a such a near finals miss why would we not see15 wins as this seasons benchmark?
BTW, 15 wins finished fifth last year and in the top four every year back til 2016 (I've not bothered going back any further) and both the Bulldogs and Richmond actually won the flag with that many wins.
So how can this list not be in contending mode if it's capable of winning 15 games.
Suddenly our woes are all being blamed on our list which is the best balanced at present that it has been this century. Not confident that our team selections reflect this balance though.
I don't know what's going wrong with this club but it is very painful watching. I've never been in favor of sacking coaches mid contract and I'm not going to start now but for the few who actually think we should extend his contract now...I don't think so.
Why is this all on LLoyd? As someone in politics once said "I don't hold the hose mate".
It staggers me that when things go south, Carlton supporters first reaction is to focus squarely on coaches, footy managers and boards.
What I witnessed yesterday was:
- The best team in the comp strut their stuff
- A defence (ours) that was extremely poor in the first qtr and some of the second. I sat behind the goals on level 2 at the Punt Rd end and the defenders were shambolic in their approach in that first qtr. It was noticeable, to me at least, that after a poor 1st qtr, they go into the huddle, get some feedback and reprogramming from their line coaches and come out with an improved approach. It's also not lost on me that Weitering's (the captain of the backline) poor form is having an affect on those around him. It would be nice if a Young or a Gov could step up and say "leave it to me Weiters, I got this". Our intercept marking from our defenders (a strength last year) is non existent at the moment, why is that?
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Last year injuries were blamed for derailing our season...
Can't use that excuse now... we're actually playing a lot worse considering we almost have a full side on the park...
Our biggest problem is, a lot of our best players have been quite average (by their standards) this year:
Cripps, Walsh, Docherty, Saad, Weitering, McKay, Hewett
Then you look at who hasn't improved or regressed from last year:
TDK, Motlop, Durdin, MCG, Young, Pittonet
Then there's the perennially injured:
Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham
Ed Curnow a permanent 22 player...
That's most of the side we're putting on the park this year, and they're surrounded by role players or first year players like Newman, Cottrell, Hollands, Cowan, Acres, Owies
The knock on Voss here is, why isn't he getting the best out of these players? It's quite alarming that so many of them have gone backwards...
My opinion (as I've been saying), he has tried to overcorrect things in the off season which has in turn created a game plan that the players can't buy into.
As a result of that, the players lose confidence and it reflects on their game. There's no way we've recruited a bunch of hacks who can't hand pass to someone 5 metres away, or hit up a target by foot that's 20 metres away even when they're under no pressure... these things are happening through a severe lack of confidence and drive toward a game plan that they've bought into.
Having said that, the attitude these players have shown is disgusting... it seems like they've had another sook and spat the dummy. Maybe they're just so good, they don't need a coach to tell them what to do...
thebluenewdeal
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It’s on our midfield not starting the game off with a defensive mindset so that our backline get some delay on the ball and actually have a chance. Absolutely under siege in the first half. I started to feel sorry for them at one point. Once you give them that support then they all looked great in the second half. It’s too little too late at that point.
I believe everything has come down to messaging at this point and vossy has finally conceded that in his last presser. Hopefully it’s not too late to turn it around but I don’t like the fact he’s changing his tune so much. Hopefully the players get the clear message now and start helping each other out on the field and stay connected defensively.
Agree. I can tolerate getting rolled if we are trying to make changes and have a cohesive plan but this has descended into a shit show.
AFL coaches I believe, turn average into good, good into very good and v good into excellent.
Voss has presided over turning 80-90% of our players backwards. We are now average at best and possibly poor.
Very sad state of affairs.
Change at the bye. Give Hanson the caretaker role and bring in someone who has a plan. Our guy is not up to it. Sad.
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The "we can't sack another coach" argument is the equivalent of choosing to stay in a bad marriage just because you were previously divorced.
We really need Brian Cook to earn his keep this offseason.
We need a new footy boss to replace Lloyd. Someone experienced from a successful program. A Neil Balme type.
We need a full clean out of assistants and to bring in some experienced heads from good football programs. We need at-least one former coach - Don Pyke, Leon Cameron, Brenton Sanderson etc
Need someone from Richmond, Geelong, Sydney footy programs.
Need an assistant who sole focus is game plan, ball movement and strategy - Caracella
Don Pyke, Blake Caracella, Andrew McQualter, Nigel Lappin, Daniel Gianciracusa
We really need to invest in a leading teams type program. There’s something fundamentally wrong with our mentality and will to win. It’s been like this for years
We need a new footy boss to replace Lloyd. Someone experienced from a successful program. A Neil Balme type.
We need a full clean out of assistants and to bring in some experienced heads from good football programs. We need at-least one former coach - Don Pyke, Leon Cameron, Brenton Sanderson etc
Need someone from Richmond, Geelong, Sydney footy programs.
Need an assistant who sole focus is game plan, ball movement and strategy - Caracella
Don Pyke, Blake Caracella, Andrew McQualter, Nigel Lappin, Daniel Gianciracusa
We really need to invest in a leading teams type program. There’s something fundamentally wrong with our mentality and will to win. It’s been like this for years
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There's no change without change, so they say - so what can be changed?
Looks like a circuit breaker is required. As much as it might look like an admission of failure to the outside world, I'd flip the assistants around, reallocate their lines, rejig some responsibilities. Give the players a different voice to listen to, some freshened perspectives, perhaps. Potentially disruptive, but that can only be a good thing at the moment.
Looks like a circuit breaker is required. As much as it might look like an admission of failure to the outside world, I'd flip the assistants around, reallocate their lines, rejig some responsibilities. Give the players a different voice to listen to, some freshened perspectives, perhaps. Potentially disruptive, but that can only be a good thing at the moment.
- Sep 4, 2013
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You know something is fundamentally wrong when the best footy we have played under him were the first three rounds last year.
Have got progressively worse since. We've gone backwards.
Have got progressively worse since. We've gone backwards.
