Coach Michael Voss

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BlueNutter said:
With respect, I take this with a grain of salt. In any sporting organisation there will always be people / families who love the coach and those who do not. There is usually a direct correlation between people who get games in their preferred position loving the coach and those who are not, saying he cannot coach. Keeping 40+ players and families happy never happens. Also given our history over the last 20 years, do we really want the tail wagging the dog?
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Where did I say players aren't happy or he can't coach?
 
Soapy V said:
Over the last 3 years I have been able to see a fair bit of Voss and have spoken with a lot of players and families about him as a coach. The feedback is always the same

Strong, has his opinion and sticks with it
Has a clear path and won't be shifted
Coaches every little thing. Very detailed
Big on reviews and meetings. Uses a lot of cliches
Has clear favourites
He is respected by the players but I certainly wouldn't say they love him

These can be taken anyway and can be good and bad, BUT my gut feel is he simply doesn't get the best out of players and players are more reactive than proactive

The ONE thing that worries me is that players say he is always a defence first, contested ball focussed coach. YET, that is the area we have been poor all year
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The won’t be shifted part concerns me. Hardwick finally learnt the game changes every 6-8 weeks and you have to let go a bit.

Voss has about 12-15 games to learn fast or he’ll piss away his second and last opportunity as a head coach.
 

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I actually think we back him in for one more season. If we fail again next year though, he's got to go. We just cannot waste this list much longer.

I know it's probably been touched on but it's unacceptable these poor runs we go on. It's happened each of the years he's been here. The incredible run we went on last year really masked how poorly we were playing up until then last season as well.

Get him in the help he needs. Back him. But he should only have 12 months to see what he can do.
 
Soapy V said:
There will be a response (I hear this every week)
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This is what has been killing me ever since he arrived. It's always about needing to "respond". We are stuck in a cycle of poor performances and then "responding". The players and coaches talk like this. It should be unacceptable to have poor performances in the first place rather than them being viewed as a natural part of a cycle. Obviously you can't win every game, but consistent excellence should still be your aim as an organisation. The language used around that is so important and the words we currently use send a subliminal message to the world that it is okay for our players to have bad patches of form.
 
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Sacking Voss isn’t the answer…

Though tough questions need to be asked and changes implemented in the offseason…

  1. What is our identity? You can’t change it every year, then multiple times in a year… We go from a score from clearance, contested identity last year (finish 3rd). To this year, chopping and changing from a score from turnover identity, to a try and do both identity, to no identity now…
  2. We have the best spine in the league 2x Coleman Medalists, Brownlow Medalist, Best in Finals, Potential AA ruck, possible AA KPD, that we spend the majority of our cap on.. Yet, while all have individual brilliance and have all been largely available throughout the year, they rarely all gel as a team and have delivered us 9th, 3rd & 9th
  3. Why is our game plan just built around kick it to Harry or Charlie on the wing or in forward line. Hampering the rest of the side to perform at the best of their abilities?
  4. How are we going to better the list? We have limited trade capital and salary cap to improve. We have holes to fill for the now and players to replace for the future. Do we be bold and trade a top player or two to get the missing pieces and get our cap under control?
  5. Why have we snookered our list build by paying so much of our cap on 7 players? Putting the interests of these players before the club and a flag. Where is the Geelong model that players sign up for a flag not a pay day.
  6. Would really like us to investigate the benefit of Voss being on the bench, with at times (sooky body language) to being in the box, running ideas and actually being the coach.
  7. I’ll leave Lloyd and Russel to other threads.
The coaching group need to evolve our game plan, to compete against fast teams who get the ball on the outside. To utilise the corridor and use all our players not just the select few..

List management group need to pull a rabbit out of the hat..
 
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Soapy V said:
Over the last 3 years I have been able to see a fair bit of Voss and have spoken with a lot of players and families about him as a coach. The feedback is always the same

Strong, has his opinion and sticks with it
Has a clear path and won't be shifted
Coaches every little thing. Very detailed
Big on reviews and meetings. Uses a lot of cliches
Has clear favourites
He is respected by the players but I certainly wouldn't say they love him

These can be taken anyway and can be good and bad, BUT my gut feel is he simply doesn't get the best out of players and players are more reactive than proactive

The ONE thing that worries me is that players say he is always a defence first, contested ball focussed coach. YET, that is the area we have been poor all year
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The group has some great leaders in Doc ,Cripps and Weitering. Voss needs to release the shackles and allow the players to play instinctive football. Cliches can only inspire for a period before they become mundane.
 
There is no doubt the injuries haven’t helped Vossy either It’s absolutely dire and would impact any coach/side
However….
 
Wickzki said:
I received a message from another poster who asked me to provide potential candidates for the coaching roles I want replaced. I don't have the breadth of recruiting information and access that the club would have but here's my shot:

Midfield: Nathan Jones. The former Melbourne 302-game player has moved straight into coaching post-retirement taking on the head coaching role at Old Peninsula Grammar School this year after playing for Mt Eliza. He experienced it all as a player and was a cultural leader at the Demons through rough times. I believe he's relatable to every player on the list and someone who will motivate and lift the group.

Alternative: David Mundy (playing/coaching at the Seymour Lions, his junior GVL club -- also a long-term pillar of leadership at the Dockers)

Defense: Shannon Hurn. I'm not sure what Hurn has done post-footy so far but with his footy brain and leadership skills would love him taking charge of our defenders. A pillar of strength throughout his career I can easily see him becoming West Coast's next great coach (along with Dean Cox who's obviously tied to Sydney) and would not be the first legendary West Coast captain-defender with a future career as a head coach at the Blues.

Forwards: Ben McEvoy. Like Hurn I'm not quite sure what McEvoy is doing post playing career. However, what I can tell you is that the connection between the backline, mids, and forwards is a huge weakness. We also have a couple of very capable key position stalls, a ruckman who goes forward (TDK) and a couple of developing stalls (Lemmey and O'Keeffe) who project as ruck/KP types if they develop to AFL standard. As a ruck who could also was also capable of playing forward there's not many out there who would better understand connection and how to get the best out of the smaller players around him.

Strength and conditioning / high performance: This is far from my field of expertise. I just want someone who will train us smarter and not harder. If when the club makes the hire this is the type of commentary that they discuss in their presser and/or club release I'll be satisfied until proven otherwise.

In summary, Jones, Hurn, and McEvoy. Two premiership players (Hurn and McEvoy), a premiership captain (Hurn), and a former long-term club captain (Nathan Jones) all of whom have been successful cultural drivers and leaders at their club. All three are somewhat recently retired and are more than capable of relating to the players on our list and the other coaches.

All three would be tremendous hires.
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I like the thought of using previous club captains, particularly premiership captains as assistants… As long as they are good enough coaches of course…

Would like to have a previous AFL coach as a senior assistant…
 
TENACIOUS said:
Sacking Voss isn’t the answer…

Though tough questions need to be asked and changes implemented in the offseason…

  1. What is our identity? You can’t change it every year, then multiple times in a year… We go from a score from clearance, contested identity last year (finish 3rd). To this year, chopping and changing from a score from turnover identity, to a try and do both identity, to no identity now…
  2. We have the best spine in the league 2x Coleman Medalists, Brownlow Medalist, Best in Finals, Potential AA ruck, possible AA KPD, that we spend the majority of our cap on.. Yet, while all have individual brilliance and have all been largely available throughout the year, they rarely all gel as a team and have delivered us 9th, 3rd & 9th
  3. Why is our game plan just built around kick it to Harry or Charlie on the wing or in forward line. Hampering the rest of the side to perform at the best of their abilities?
  4. How are we going to better the list? We have limited trade capital and salary cap to improve. We have holes to fill for the now and players to replace for the future. Do we be bold and trade a top player or two to get the missing pieces and get our cap under control?
  5. Why have we snookered our list build by paying so much of our cap on 7 players? Putting the interests of these players before the club and a flag. Where is the Geelong model that players sign up for a flag not a pay day.
  6. Would really like us to investigate the benefit of Voss being on the bench, with at times (sooky body language) to being in the box, running ideas and actually being the coach.
  7. I’ll leave Lloyd and Russel to other threads.
The coaching group need to evolve our game plan, to compete against fast teams who get the ball on the outside. To utilise the corridor and use all our players not just the select few..

List management group need to pull a rabbit out of the hat..
Click to expand...
This process has already begun - with Cripps, TDK, Harry, Charlie, Weiters all being paid under what they would get elsewhere. Unfortunately the contracts of those who have been traded in - Williams, McGovern, Martin - have had the biggest impact on the cap, we are almost through those now.
 
Late Monday morning....
..... drinking coffee...
No news.... no sackings.... no announcements....

...... the bloody club's gone soft! LOL
 

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How are people still not believing sacking Voss isn’t the answer, honestly? We have a shocking defensive zone/set up, the amount of finger pointing/lack off accountability is mind-boggling, selection integrity is flawed and he has his favourites, offensively it is a genuine mess, stoppages we get slapped at, there is not one component where I can say wow he does a great job. But no, all the assistants right, our senior coach only controls off field stuff.. and for the off field it doensn’t mean **** all if we don’t get it done on the field, I get he isn’t tactically the greatest but what is he actually good at? We have played very little good footy since he took over, go back over the games and don’t give me 1-2 quarter games, give me games where you finish watching and are convinced we were a threat
 
Wilson14 said:
How are people still not believing sacking Voss isn’t the answer, honestly? We have a shocking defensive zone/set up, the amount of finger pointing/lack off accountability is mind-boggling, selection integrity is flawed and he has his favourites, offensively it is a genuine mess, stoppages we get slapped at, there is not one component where I can say wow he does a great job. But no, all the assistants right, our senior coach only controls off field stuff.. and for the off field it doensn’t mean **** all if we don’t get it done on the field, I get he isn’t tactically the greatest but what is he actually good at? We have played very little good footy since he took over, go back over the games and don’t give me 1-2 quarter games, give me games where you finish watching and are convinced we were a threat
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On current trajectory it doesn't bode well for him. A lot of wins basically either holding on for dear life and/or herculean effort of a quarter of dominance.

Unlike Bolton and Teague being first time senior coaches, Voss is on attempt 2 with a good 10 year stint as an assistant wearing many hats and shouldn't need such a reliance on a support group (especially tactically). The whole tactical or lack of has been the reason I've held my full support of him at arms length.

I appreciate he is passionate, has improved his public speaking since his last stint, and has fondness for our club, but as he's said time and time again we're still working on our better version of ourselves, we will not stray etc etc... Hate to tell him you'll never get the ultimate better version of ourselves, use what you have, use the strengths, and stop with this layer bs.

I hope he ends up like a Hardwick and eventually lightbulb moments, but he's not going to get 9 years to do so.
 
I'll put it here:
We do not do the basics of football well.

I absolutely believe we have the talent on the list to be challenging this year (fitness aside), but if we sharpened up on some fundamentals then we would make life so much easier for ourselves.
It comes across to the crowd as players have low football IQ, and/or skill, but really it's a coaching and training issue.
Things like our positioning around and approach to stoppages/marking packs/contests, the quality of our handballs, knowing when to release a ball, or hold onto it.

Voss may not have the same focus on basics that Fly has (the Filth, particularly in the previous 2 years have been very good at this), but it would be more of an Assistant Coach area.
It is something we need to rectify.
 
to add to your point Stamos - I have two 'rational' criticisms of the coaching group as far as on-field performance goes

1. there is a definite lack of drilled play in evidence compared to other teams which translates to Carlton making hard work of moving the ball around the ground and scoring - things always look chaotic and opportunistic, this is a more taxing game plan because too many players in too many situations are playing makey uppy football.

2. there is a lack of basic skill execution and football nouse across the team as a whole

these factors have made it hard work to get convincing wins because the team game style/plan/execution is fragile unless everything is going well and explains a lot of close losses and wins.

That said the injury factor has impacted on team continuity and the ability to bed down a consistent level of week in week out performance capability is not to be discounted - perhaps Riussell's retirement is a recognition of these issues.

as an aside - I was expecting Voss to instill a level of mongrel in the team that has always been missing - along with lack of drilled play, and dumb football ( even from so called leaders like Walsh ) is disappointing.

Everything can be rectified if it acknowledged and addressed.

As a collective - the fitness/injury issues are a fail and the ability to execute the game's basics in a consistent manner point to coaches needing to lift their game.
 
Stamos said:
For what it's worth, on yesterday's The Age Realfooty podcast, Pete Ryan, Jake Niall and Caroline Wilson said there'll be changes around/under Voss to cover the areas he's not so strong in.
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To be fair, most journos would probably throw that one without any real info and most likely land a bullseye. A quite obvious thing we should be doing... but will we?
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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