Opinion Mick Malthouse

What is the next move on Mick?

  • Sack him immediately; replacement coach to see out the year.

    Votes: 192 48.9%

  • Let him coach out the year then show him the door.

    Votes: 70 17.8%

  • Sign him now to give coaches and players some direction.

    Votes: 81 20.6%

  • Not sure yet... still too angry to think clearly.

    Votes: 50 12.7%
  • Total voters
    393
  • Poll closed .

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Hi guys, sorry to barge in as a non- Carlton fan here but from my outsider's perspective, Carlton have one particular gameplay tactic which isn't working which Malthouse has to address. Carlton's kickouts are really bad, they tend to be all to the right flank and long to a contest, which is fairly predictable, meaning that teams are easily capable of closing off that area and pushing the ball out of bounds. Then they push up, seal the area and contain Carlton within their back half until someone cracks from the pressure. Instead, Carlton should be trying to kick it to a player or target instead of kicking it wildly. It helps get the ball out of your defense and it creates momentum and run. Most good teams pass to a player, not a space when kicking out. Kicking it to a player helps generate counter attacks as you can get a chain of passes, whereas currently Carlton kick to a pack and it either devolves into a scramble or a throw in, killing momentum. It's a really dumb idea and it doesn't work in the modern game as teams press high and teams are super fit meaning they are capable of covering the center and the boundary line, meaning that a large portion of Carlton's kickouts just go to the boundary. And if Carlton does mark the ball, it's often by a ruckman who can't really play on with any urgency, he has to wait for a midfielder to handpass to, and usually everyone is still manned up, it's not as if you've found a man free, the pack means that the marker was already manned up. Collingwood tried to pass their way out of defense and it worked much better. I don't know if Malthouse thinks this is a good idea, but it isn't, if he doesn't and it's just the players doing it contrary to instructions then Malthouse has lost the playing group. I get that Yarran would have taken some of the kickouts last night, but you need more than one player to be able to take kickouts in your team. And I've noticed Carlton do this a lot, sometimes they get away with it but against a high pressing hard working side like Collingwood it came unstuck. It seemed to be a problem last year as well and hasn't been addressed.

I don't know if you've already covered this, my apologies if it has (just delete the post if it has). But as a person who doesn't really care how Carlton go apart from when they play Richmond, it just doesn't seem to be a viable way forward. For the record I'm off the Hardwick bandwagon too so no need to point at my team either. :(
 
Richo83 said:
Hi guys, sorry to barge in as a non- Carlton fan here but from my outsider's perspective, Malthouse isn't helping. Carlton's kickouts are really bad, they tend to be all to the right flank and long to a contest, which is fairly predictable, meaning that teams are easily capable of closing off that area and pushing the ball out of bounds. Then they push up, seal the area and contain Carlton within their back half until someone cracks from the pressure. Instead, Carlton should be trying to kick it to a player or target instead of kicking it wildly. It helps get the ball out of your defense and it creates momentum and run. Most good teams pass to a player, not a space when kicking out. Kicking it to a player helps generate counter attacks as you can get a chain of passes, whereas currently Carlton kick to a pack and it either devolves into a scramble or a throw in, killing momentum. It's a really dumb idea and it doesn't work in the modern game as teams press high and teams are super fit meaning they are capable of covering the center and the boundary line, meaning that a large portion of Carlton's kickouts just go to the boundary. And if Carlton does mark the ball, it's often by a ruckman who can't really play on with any urgency, he has to wait for a midfielder to handpass to, and usually everyone is still manned up, it's not as if you've found a man free, the pack means that the marker was already manned up. Collingwood tried to pass their way out of defense and it worked much better. I don't know if Malthouse thinks this is a good idea, but it isn't, if he doesn't and it's just the players doing it contrary to instructions then Malthouse has lost the playing group.

I don't know if you've already covered this, my apologies if it has (just delete the post if it has). But as a person who doesn't really care how Carlton go apart from when they play Richmond, it just doesn't seem to be a viable way forward. For the record I'm off the Hardwick bandwagon too so no need to point at my team either. :(
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Bog Off, Your critique isn't wanted or needed. Enjoy The Tuggers getting destroyed by Geelong today ... #YELLOWANDBLEAK
 

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DaVillaBlues said:
Bog Off, Your critique isn't wanted or needed. Enjoy The Tuggers getting destroyed by Geelong today ... #YELLOWANDBLEAK
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I don't think that response was necessary, all he was trying to do was offer an outsiders view with some reasoning behind it.
 
Shpeshal Ed said:
The fact that Mick has simple tried to make himself "feel at home" by basically getting anyone he could over from Collingwood would make me FURIOUS as a Carlton supporter.
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Completely agree with this Ed.

I grew up as a Collingwood supporter getting my heart broken by the great Carlton teams of the 70's, 80's and 90's - they always had a Carlton way of doing things: clinical, persistent, confident. They were like the bad guy out of Terminator 2 - they'd just keep coming and nothing could break them.

Of course the game of footy isn't what it used to be, but what does remain constant is that all clubs need to have their way of doing things, their identity.

Not every club can win a premiership every year, but what every club can do is strive to be an organisation that their supporters, members, players, coaches, staff and sponsors can be proud of.

Pride is the foundation that success is built on. It's not the other way around.

The performance we saw last night wasn't 'The Carlton way' that Blues folks grew up being proud of (and opposition folk starting with Collingwood grew up loathing). Perhaps it's been a while since the AFL competition has seen 'The Carlton Way'.

If I was a Carlton supporter running Carlton I'd be looking to find that mojo again. Step 1 would be to sweep out of every trace of Collingwood from the club ... I do believe some Carlton folk refer to it as "filth" and / or "scum" ? ... QED.

It'd start with Mick. Players are responsible for their individual performance, but when close to 22 players don't turn up to one of the biggest games of their season - that responsibility rests fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the senior coach. Mick acknowledged that himself in his presser ... and he didn't have any answers as to 'why?'
 
76woodenspooners said:
Completely agree with this Ed.

I grew up as a Collingwood supporter getting my heart broken by the great Carlton teams of the 70's, 80's and 90's - they always had a Carlton way of doing things: clinical, persistent, confident. They were like the bad guy out of Terminator 2 - they'd just keep coming and nothing could break them.

Of course the game of footy isn't what it used to be, but what does remain constant is that all clubs need to have their way of doing things, their identity.

Not every club can win a premiership every year, but what every club can do is strive to be an organisation that their supporters, members, players, coaches, staff and sponsors can be proud of.

Pride is the foundation that success is built on. It's not the other way around.

The performance we saw last night wasn't 'The Carlton way' that Blues folks grew up being proud of (and opposition folk starting with Collingwood grew up loathing). Perhaps it's been a while since the AFL competition has seen 'The Carlton Way'.

If I was a Carlton supporter running Carlton I'd be looking to find that mojo again. Step 1 would be to sweep out of every trace of Collingwood from the club ... I do believe some Carlton folk refer to it as "filth" and / or "scum" ? ... QED.

It'd start with Mick. Players are responsible for their individual performance, but when close to 22 players don't turn up to one of the biggest games of their season - that responsibility rests fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the senior coach. Mick acknowledged that himself in his presser ... and he didn't have any answers as to 'why?'
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Starting to worry I am seeing sensible posts from opposition supporters. Something is just not right.
 
76woodenspooners said:
Completely agree with this Ed.

I grew up as a Collingwood supporter getting my heart broken by the great Carlton teams of the 70's, 80's and 90's - they always had a Carlton way of doing things: clinical, persistent, confident. They were like the bad guy out of Terminator 2 - they'd just keep coming and nothing could break them.

Of course the game of footy isn't what it used to be, but what does remain constant is that all clubs need to have their way of doing things, their identity.

Not every club can win a premiership every year, but what every club can do is strive to be an organisation that their supporters, members, players, coaches, staff and sponsors can be proud of.

Pride is the foundation that success is built on. It's not the other way around.

The performance we saw last night wasn't 'The Carlton way' that Blues folks grew up being proud of (and opposition folk starting with Collingwood grew up loathing). Perhaps it's been a while since the AFL competition has seen 'The Carlton Way'.

If I was a Carlton supporter running Carlton I'd be looking to find that mojo again. Step 1 would be to sweep out of every trace of Collingwood from the club ... I do believe some Carlton folk refer to it as "filth" and / or "scum" ? ... QED.

It'd start with Mick. Players are responsible for their individual performance, but when close to 22 players don't turn up to one of the biggest games of their season - that responsibility rests fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the senior coach. Mick acknowledged that himself in his presser ... and he didn't have any answers as to 'why?'
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Its a simplistic and incorrect view (imo) to say last night's debacle on Mick, but you fail to realize, our playing group is the most (mentally) soft, downhill skiing bunch of flat track bullies in the AFL in the past 10 years (at least).

We are paying the price for years of poor recruiting and trading under Ratten, when a club constantly pisses away 1st rounders on turkeys like Lucas and Bootsma, its only 4-5 teats down the track that it starts to come back and bite it on the bum.

The game plan by Mick may be flawed, but that is no excuse for fundamental poor kicking and handball skills by the players last night, the absolutely disgusting lack of chasing and defensive pressure by senior players (including last year's best and fairest winners)

Mick is a great coach, but he isn't Jesus, he can't turn the crud on our list into gold.

We may very well have a new coach next tear, but remember this - Carlton will be bottom 4 fodder for the next 2 years at least (and that's been generous)

Some Blues fans are deep in denial in just how poor and inadequate our list measures up ..

They will be bitterly disappointed when they see no immediate short term improvement under a new coach.

Mick won a flag only 5 years ago, I hardly call him 'past it' .. That's a bit condescending and ageist ..
 
DaVillaBlues said:
Mick won a flag only 5 years ago, I hardly call him 'past it' .. That's a bit condescending and ageist ..
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Completely agree :thumbsu:

A senior coach's age should be a non-issue.

Its a simplistic and incorrect view (imo) to say last night's debacle on Mick, but you fail to realize, our playing group is the most (mentally) soft, downhill skiing bunch of flat track bullies in the AFL in the past 10 years (at least).

We are paying the price for years of poor recruiting and trading under Ratten, when a club constantly pisses away 1st rounders on turkeys like Lucas and Bootsma, its only 4-5 teats down the track that it starts to come back and bite it on the bum.

The game plan by Mick may be flawed, but that is no excuse for fundamental poor kicking and handball skills by the players last night, the absolutely disgusting lack of chasing and defensive pressure by senior players (including last year's best and fairest winners)

Mick is a great coach, but he isn't Jesus, he can't turn the crud on our list into gold.
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I agree that the senior coach is limited by the state of the list he has available.

But the state of the list doesn't account for lack of effort.

Mick made that point himself during his presser.

Again referring back to the great Carlton teams of 70's, 80's and 90's ... Didn't matter whether Carlton won lost or drew - their opposition would be hurting and feeling like they'd played a game of footy.
 

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If Mick does go, we need to really put some effort and research into choosing our next coach. You look at our recent record: Pagan (recruited because he's a big name), Ratten (he was mates with the President) and Mick (same situation as Pagan). Hopefully they look at guys like Tudor, Caracella, Dew and Bolton. Alas, the club will probably just throw some money at Worsfold, Williams or Thompson and we'll be in the same predicament.
 
DaVillaBlues said:
Bog Off, Your critique isn't wanted or needed. Enjoy The Tuggers getting destroyed by Geelong today ... #YELLOWANDBLEAK
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Richmond will lose today, that's a given.

I'm just saying that Malthouse has some ideas which don't really work in modern football and I think that has to be addressed. And the mindset: "who are we going to replace him with?" doesn't wash with me, Footscray and Adelaide scouted the assistant coaches of some of the best teams currently going around, if I were Carlton I'd be looking towards the likes of Fremantle, Sydney and Hawthorn to see if they have any assistants who have some fresh ideas. Just trying to poach a coach or looking at people who aren't currently coaching isn't working. I also don't think a boundary line gameplan can win the premiership in this day and age, teams spread everywhere really well meaning that it's difficult to keep possession of the ball and kick it along the boundary. Malthouse is relying on his style of kicking to the boundary then relying upon the ball winners to get the ball and move it forward, but most good sides have a decent onball set up, so that wont win you games. What wins games is an attacking gameplan and skills. I'll grant you that Malthouse can't teach the side how to kick, but he has to instill a more attacking and less boundary line based gameplan.
 
Blugazi said:
If Mick does go, we need to really put some effort and research into choosing our next coach. You look at our recent record: Pagan (recruited because he's a big name), Ratten (he was mates with the President) and Mick (same situation as Pagan). Hopefully they look at guys like Tudor, Caracella, Dew and Bolton. Alas, the club will probably just throw some money at Worsfold, Williams or Thompson and we'll be in the same predicament.
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Our next coach will be untried
 
The next coach needs to be someone who starts the rebuild and hopefully see it through. A young coach, fresh ideas good understanding of the modern game. Can't help thinking that Voss with his experience at Bris and time under Hinkley could be cherry ripe.
 
We should level the whole entire club and rebuild ever thing that's related to us. Like a new club in the comp.
 
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