Mid Season 2002 All Australian Team...According to Telstras debacle of a site.

[sabre_ac]

FB: Glenn Archer (Kangaroos), Dustin Fletcher (Essendon), Martin Pike (Brisbane Lions)

HB: Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda), Mathew Pavlich (Fremantle), Scott Burns (Collingwood)

C: Adam Simpson (Kangaroos), Ben Cousins (West Coast), Shane Crawford (Hawthorn) (vc)

HF: Mark Ricciuto (Adelaide), Warren Tredrea (Port Adelaide), Nigel Lappin (Brisbane Lions)

F: Brad Johnson (Western Bulldogs), Barry Hall (Sydney), Chris Tarrant (Collingwood)

Foll: Luke Darcy (Western Bulldogs), Nathan Buckley (Collingwood) (captain), Andrew McLeod (Adelaide)

Inter: Michael Voss (Brisbane Lions), Simon Black (Brisbane Lions), Jason Johnson (Essendon), Steven King (Geelong)

Emg: Matthew Primus (Port Adelaide), Jason Akermanis (Brisbane Lions), Kane Johnson (Adelaide)

Not a bad effort but it seems that few players got in there based solely on reputation.Cousins being one of them,he is not having the same season as he did last year

Dont get me wrong both top class players but from a Freo perspective how Bell didnt make it is beyond me when he is averaging the most possesions.
And Haselby would have to come close.

And comon where is Rock star medhurst

 

[funky_monk]

What was wrong with my thread posted 18 minutes earlier?

afl.com's All Australian Team

Trying to steal the limelight!

 

[Rob]

And from another Freo perspective: How the hell would Pavlich make it? He's had a good year, but he's still made some unbelievable blunders that an all-Australian centre half back would not make.
I think there's a heap of Victorians that are reading the papers and forming opinions of his current playing standard without seeing him play.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by funky_monk
What was wrong with my thread posted 18 minutes earlier?

afl.com's All Australian Team

Trying to steal the limelight!

**** sorry buddy
Last thing I would want to do is step on the toes of a fellow dockers supporter
At the very least it should be an eagle supporter

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Not a bad effort but it seems that few players got in there based solely on reputation.Cousins being one of them,he is not having the same season as he did last year

Had an average start but his last 3-4 games have been supurb.

Dont get me wrong both top class players but from a Freo perspective how Bell didnt make it is beyond me when he is averaging the most possesions.

His stats are over inflated because many are just handballs or short little kicks in the back 50m.

And Haselby would have to come close

nah not close...he SHOULD be in there.

How Mcleod is in there god only knows. its a travesty to have Mcleod and Riccuito in there ahea dof Kane Johnson who has been the Crows best player this year.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
Cousins being one of them,he is not having the same season as he did last year

True, his form so far this season has been better than the first half of last year. Don't you read the Sunday Times? There was a whole page article outlining this fact..

Originally posted by sabre
And comon where is Rock star medhurst

Exactly. That team needs more hair to be truly great.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Rob
And from another Freo perspective: How the hell would Pavlich make it? He's had a good year, but he's still made some unbelievable blunders that an all-Australian centre half back would not make.
I think there's a heap of Victorians that are reading the papers and forming opinions of his current playing standard without seeing him play.

Well who would you suggest has played better in that position??

He has shut down the form players of the competition and is yet to be beaten.
Rocca,Ottens,Grant,Holland to name a few..

 

[sabre_ac]

Re: Re: Mid Season 2002 All Australian Team...According to Telstras debacle of a site.

Originally posted by Macca19


Had an average start but his last 3-4 games have been supurb.



His stats are over inflated because many are just handballs or short little kicks in the back 50m.



nah not close...he SHOULD be in there.

How Mcleod is in there god only knows. its a travesty to have Mcleod and Riccuito in there ahea dof Kane Johnson who has been the Crows best player this year.

Its nice to see we both agree on somthing Macca.
Haselby should be there.
Your not suggesting that Cousins has been a better player than bell are you?

I was probally just a little blinkered as far as it goes with McLoed after he ripped us to shreads earlier this year.
And yes what is the roo doing in there

 

[Macca19]

Re: Re: Re: Mid Season 2002 All Australian Team...According to Telstras debacle of a site.

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Its nice to see we both agree on somthing Macca.
Haselby should be there.
Your not suggesting that Cousins has been a better player than bell are you?

I dunno. Bell has had a lot of the ball but his effectiveness isnt as high as it should. Many of his possesions are just handballs in defence or little kicks across the ground in defence.
Cousins has only had 30 possesions less than bell but has been more effective. So i guess it depends if you go for quality or quantity. Id say Cousins has been better than Bell...but not better than Haselby.

 

[dbhattarai]

Bell shouldn't be there, Hasleby should. Honestly, Haselby would come close to winning the brownlow if the count ended tonight.

And having watched Pavlich very closely this year, he fully deserves his spot. He has made 1 or 2 mistakes, but who hasn't?

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by dbhattarai
Bell shouldn't be there, Hasleby should. Honestly, Haselby would come close to winning the brownlow if the count ended tonight.

And having watched Pavlich very closely this year, he fully deserves his spot. He has made 1 or 2 mistakes, but who hasn't?

As a matter of fact, Pavlich is recorded as having made 33 clangers so far this season, which is the most of any docker, (and 11 more than Jako, but thats another story ) I'm not disputing his status as a very good player indeed, but an average of around 3 serious errors a game when you're playing at CHB is not good. Generally, three muckups on the halfback line =
two-three opposition shots on goal.

All in all, this team reads like it was composed by someone who reads the paper headlines, but knows diddley squat about football. Its been picked on name value, and nothing else. The fact that Haselby wasn't included was a serious omission, and the Mcleod over Kane Johnson decision is a clear indication that this team was picked on names rather than actual performances.

 

[Zombie]

Port Adelaide has had the best defence in 2002, yet no players in the back line of AFL.com.au's AA.

Waekiln and Hardwick should be in there for sure and probably Montgomery aswell.

Matthew Bishop is a candidate for the leagues most improved player.

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Mid Season 2002 All Australian Team...According to Telstras debacle of a site.

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Its nice to see we both agree on somthing Macca.
Haselby should be there.
Your not suggesting that Cousins has been a better player than bell are you?

I was probally just a little blinkered as far as it goes with McLoed after he ripped us to shreads earlier this year.
And yes what is the roo doing in there

I agree on Haselby, has played great footy all season but Bell doesnt deserve a spot in front of Cousins. Cuz actually hurts teams with his possesions and he also kicks goals. I dont know what happened to Peter Bell but when he was playing for the Roos he was half midfielder, half goalsneak and he would really hurt opposition sides.

But with Freo he is like midfielder, back pocket. Picks up all his possesions in the backhalf, if he picked up a possesion, broke the lines and kicked it forward then it would be good but all he does is give off a little handball or a short 20m kick to a free player. He just isnt hurting sides.

 

[Zombie]

8 of the starting 18 are not in the top 8 teams.

Being a star in a bottom side a.ka Riewoldt for St.Kilda doesn't make you deserving of an AA spot just because you are the one shining light in a team playing like crap

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Well who would you suggest has played better in that position??

He has shut down the form players of the competition and is yet to be beaten.
Rocca,Ottens,Grant,Holland to name a few..

Jakovich has been better at CHB this year.

 

[dbhattarai]

Originally posted by Mead


As a matter of fact, Pavlich is recorded as having made 33 clangers so far this season, which is the most of any docker, (and 11 more than Jako, but thats another story ) I'm not disputing his status as a very good player indeed, but an average of around 3 serious errors a game when you're playing at CHB is not good. Generally, three muckups on the halfback line =
two-three opposition shots on goal.

All in all, this team reads like it was composed by someone who reads the paper headlines, but knows diddley squat about football. Its been picked on name value, and nothing else. The fact that Haselby wasn't included was a serious omission, and the Mcleod over Kane Johnson decision is a clear indication that this team was picked on names rather than actual performances.

Your judging Pavlich's performances on stats. You will find most of his clangers occured in the first few games of the season. He rarely gets beaten does Pavlich. And he has been very damaging rebounding and sets up a lot of plays for Freo.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by dbhattarai


Better than Pavlich? Are you joking?

Dont watch many WC games do you?? Jakos first 7, 8 games were dynamite. He missed a game with the irregular heartbeat and hasnt been that good last couple of games but he has had a better season so far.

 

[dbhattarai]

Originally posted by jod23


Dont watch many WC games do you?? Jakos first 7, 8 games were dynamite. He missed a game with the irregular heartbeat and hasnt been that good last couple of games but he has had a better season so far.

I've watched every West Coast game. I know Jako has been solid and played much better than he has in recent seasons, but you seriously think hes been the best CHB? My problem with Jako is his kicking (and yes, I am aware Jako has less clangers than Pav). He often appears to me to kick blindly while Pavlich sets up the play more and is far more damaging.

 

[dbhattarai]

And since someone brought up clangers, Wirrapunda and Cousins are leading WC's tally of clangers. Does this mean Cousins shouldn't be considered as an AA, or even Wirrapunda for that matter? And Buckley has had 44 clangers, Darcy 41, Crawford 39 and Simon Black has had 37. Does that mean they turn the ball over too much and shouldn't be in the AA side?

Clangers have no reflection on the game whatsoever.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by dbhattarai
And since someone brought up clangers, Wirrapunda and Cousins are leading WC's tally of clangers. Does this mean Cousins shouldn't be considered as an AA, or even Wirrapunda for that matter? And Buckley has had 44 clangers, Darcy 41, Crawford 39 and Simon Black has had 37. Does that mean they turn the ball over too much and shouldn't be in the AA side?

Clangers have no reflection on the game whatsoever.

Not true- clangers are very important indeed. there's a difference between useful possessions and useless ones. Now what do Black, Buckley, Crawford, Cousins and Wirrapunda have in common? They're midfielders, and play high volume possession games, and thus have more clangers simply by default. Try calculating the ratio of clangers to possessions, and you might have a better estimate of their efficiency.
Pavlich (who actually has more clangers than Cousins despite vastly lesser number of possessions, if we're going to throw stones), plays CHB. When a midfielder makes a mistake, the opposition might get a possession in the midfield. When a CHB or FB makes a mistake, the opposition gets a shot on goal- I would have thought it goes without saying that it is far more damaging for a backman to make a poor kick than a midfielder. Eg- Leon Davis=dynamic midfielder or forward, horrendously poor backman.
If you have a problem with Jako because his kicking has been poor, what does that say about Pavlich?

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by jod23


Jakovich has been better at CHB this year.

These stats don't mean that much since they are both defenders and it doesn't mean much if they are getting 10 marks and the person they are defending is getting 10 goals. Although no one is yet to kick a bag on Pav. Just thought it would be interesting.

Pavlich's stats this year (per game).

16.9 disposals
5.3 marks
2.6 tackles
4.5 rebounds out of def. 50
2.0 inside 50
2.75 clangers
6.15 possessions per clanger
5 goals 4 behinds total

Jakovich's stats this year (per game).

15.8 disposals
3.6 marks
1.1 tackles
4.45 rebounds out of def. 50
1.1 inside 50
2.0 clangers
7.9 possessions per clanger
0 goals 0 behinds total

Pav is marginally ahead in most stats (including the whole 0.75 of a clanger per game!). If you think thats a lot extra then you would have to acknowledge that Pav is ahead of Jako in most other stats by greater than that amount.

Good thing about Pav is that he is 20 and going to get better and Jako will be gone in 2 or 3 years.

And Wirrpundas ratio to clangers is 5.7 possessions per clanger so even for a midfielder thats quite poor (ie. not good).

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by Mead


When a midfielder makes a mistake, the opposition might get a possession in the midfield. When a CHB or FB makes a mistake, the opposition gets a shot on goal- I would have thought it goes without saying that it is far more damaging for a backman to make a poor kick than a midfielder. Eg- Leon Davis=dynamic midfielder or forward, horrendously poor backman.
If you have a problem with Jako because his kicking has been poor, what does that say about Pavlich?

One thing you are forgetting is that unlike Jako Pav isn't anchored to the 50m line. He actually makes a lot of the play up the ground and stretches his man going the other way. Pav has also played on the wing and in the centre square. Jako could never do this. This is why Pav is a better player. He can impact on a game in areas Jako can only dream of (ie. running through the middle and kicking a flood breaking goal against Carlton or taking the ball clean out of the ruck and snapping the sealing goal against Essendon).

So to say Pav is making mistakes in the backline is a complete fallacy because Pavs up the ground as much as he is in the back 50.

 

[Zombie]

Good thing about Pav is that he is 20 and going to get better and Jako will be gone in 2 or 3 years

You can't say a player deserves to get AA selection over another simply because he is only 20 though.

Jako hasn't had as much oppurtunity as Pav to rack up stats though because WC are a winning side and Freo are a losing side.

Whittnall has been better than both of them and only recently has gone forward.

Other players to make the AA based soley on reputation are Cousins, McLeod and Fletcher.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by funky_monk

Good thing about Pav is that he is 20 and going to get better and Jako will be gone in 2 or 3 years.

Yeah but the bad thing about Pavlich is that he will never be as good as Jakovich...not in a million years.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Zombie

Other players to make the AA based soley on reputation are Cousins, McLeod and Fletcher.

Dont know what you Vics are seeing over there in the "Heart of Football" but Cousins easily deserves AA so far this year, he had a slow start to the year but in the last 4 or 5 games has been maybe 2 or 3 BOG's and i bet he will get Brownlow votes in all of the past few games.