Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[WhiteHartLane23]

Tenth batch of DOD
William "Bill" John Kenny (Sth 1919) B: 30/7/1897 Orig club South Districts. 'Son of Bill.' 'Much more prominent as an athlete' (NB: I don't know if Stephen Rodgers is referring to Bill Snr, or Bill Jnr as the prominent athlete)

Looking at Bill Kenny Snr's death notice (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4453043), Bill Jnr was alive in 1932 and had moved to London. Aust electoral rolls suggest he had married an Annie Josepha (surname unknown) and UK electoral rolls have them living in Hendon until 1938...

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Ninth Batch of missing DOD
(side note; once all batches are up I will do one final post of outstanding DODs and outstanding DOB (which I think are still the same missing 4)

We can probably add to the missing 4 - current DOB for Jimmy Gaynor was shown to be incorrect and I don't think we have a clear alternative

 

[rbartlett]

We can probably add to the missing 4 - current DOB for Jimmy Gaynor was shown to be incorrect and I don't think we have a clear alternative

Indeed I've added Gaynor to the missing DOB (and DOD) email to Stephen R. I've cut/paste the post about Gaynor in other thread into the email so he can see how the current DOB is wrong.
I should say ,with the email I will be sending him, I'm saying that all this research is a group effort from the members on this forum. Anyone have an issue with that. (only reply if you do)

 

[the croucher]

Looking at Bill Kenny Snr's death notice (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4453043), Bill Jnr was alive in 1932 and had moved to London. Aust electoral rolls suggest he had married an Annie Josepha (surname unknown) and UK electoral rolls have them living in Hendon until 1938...

When Catherine (Mrs Bill snr) died in 1952 her notice named William (no address) but in a way to indicate he was still alive at that date:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/a...imits=dateFrom=1952-01-01|||dateTo=1952-12-31

 

[GreyCrow]

Looking at Bill Kenny Snr's death notice (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4453043), Bill Jnr was alive in 1932 and had moved to London. Aust electoral rolls suggest he had married an Annie Josepha (surname unknown) and UK electoral rolls have them living in Hendon until 1938...

Most likely is Mahoney 1922 as Vic BDM

 

[rbartlett]

Eleventh batch of missing Date of Deaths

*Geoffrey John Kerr (Stk 145; 1947) (born: 7/4/1925) Orig club Caulfield Districts
*James "Jim" Francis Kirby ( Nth M 1946) (born: 21/12/1922) Orig club: La Mascotte. WW2 Army
Edmund Kirwin ( StKilda 1898 ) (b: 31/3/1876) Orig club Albert Park
James "Jim" Henry Kuhl (Nth M 1947-48). (B:27/9/1925) Orig club Geelong West. Son of Harry (StK)

 

[35Daicos]

Eleventh batch of missing Date of Deaths

James "Jim" Henry Kuhl (Nth M 1947-48). (B:27/9/1925) Orig club Geelong West. Son of Harry (StK)

This is the one referred to in an earlier post by WhiteHartLane23 where he said "Yesterday I stumbled across the death notice for Jim Kuhl (North) who died earlier this year in Queensland. A long forgotten player (and one who I suspect is on the list Rhett has) - I'm not sure if the club know he has died...."

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ague-players-afl.1172997/page-3#post-52217402

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

This is the one referred to in an earlier post by WhiteHartLane23 where he said "Yesterday I stumbled across the death notice for Jim Kuhl (North) who died earlier this year in Queensland. A long forgotten player (and one who I suspect is on the list Rhett has) - I'm not sure if the club know he has died...."

Date of death is 8 May 2017 - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Kuhl

 

[the croucher]

Eleventh batch of missing Date of Deaths

*Geoffrey John Kerr (Stk 145; 1947) (born: 7/4/1925) Orig club Caulfield Districts
*James "Jim" Francis Kirby ( Nth M 1946) (born: 21/12/1922) Orig club: La Mascotte. WW2 Army
Edmund Kirwin ( StKilda 1898 ) (b: 31/3/1876) Orig club Albert Park
James "Jim" Henry Kuhl (Nth M 1947-48). (B:27/9/1925) Orig club Geelong West. Son of Harry (StK)

Jim Kirby may well still be alive. No clues for recent years, but cannot find any refs to his death in Vic BDMs, Greater Melbourne cemeteries site, Ancestry family trees or Ryerson Index. His WW2 service record has not yet been digitised.

May have found name of a son - in 1968 electoral roll there is a James Francis Kirby at 28 Teddington Road, Hampton with a Shirley Frances Kirby at same address. Both names are also listed in 1972 at same address, and a third name there that year is Terrence Francis Kirby.

By 1980, all three names are at Douglas Street, Sunshine Beach, Wide Bay, Queensland -
there is also a Brenda Kirby at same address.

 

[the croucher]

Eleventh batch of missing Date of Deaths
<snip>
Edmund Kirwin ( StKilda 1898 ) (b: 31/3/1876) Orig club Albert Park
<snip>
(StK)

at start of June 1898 ref to Kirwin getting permit from St Kilda to Albert Park
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9836495

Wonder if there has been some mix-up in the VFL/AFL records, and rather than Albert Park being the club he came from,
perhaps it is the club he went to ?

There are also a number of refs on Trove to a Kirwin/Kirwan/Kerwin (and sometimes more specifically i.d by his initial)
playing first-grade cricket with St Kilda from the late 1890s up to at least 1908

From Vic BDMs site
Edmund's birth was registered in 1876 #11549 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunn)
cannot find any ref to his death

his brother Maurice's birth was registered in 1882 #8973 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunne)
Maurice's death was registered in 1960 #2974 - parents listed as Michael and Kate

Haven't found any suitable Ancestry clues yet, nor ref to either brother in the Melbourne General Cemetery.
Unfortunately, the father Michael died aged 40 in 1884, and I'm not sure if the mother later re-marries.
Thus searching for a suitably "fulsome" family notice has been difficult too.

Am pinning hopes on Maurice's death notice/s in about 1960 - by that era, notices often have wider family links identified.
No ref on Ryerson Index yet.

 

[the croucher]

Eleventh batch of missing Date of Deaths

*Geoffrey John Kerr (Stk 145; 1947) (born: 7/4/1925) Orig club Caulfield Districts
<snip>

I think he could still be alive.

Have found his birth notice - The Argus 25 April 1925
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2085932
parents listed as Mr & Mrs R M Kerr, 34 Malvern Grove, Caulfield.

Electoral roll information for the mid-1920s confirms parents names as per that address are
Rudolph Morier Kerr and Elizabeth Marion

By 1949 RM & EM are listed at 4 Holland grove (electorate Higgins sub-district Caulfield)
Geoffrey John is listed at same address (occupation - watchmaker), but revealingly the copy of that roll on Ancestry has his name crossed out and a handwritten entry which appears to read Brighton 20.7.94

An entry in the 1977 electoral roll shows Geoffrey John (occupation - watchmaker) living in Burwah Avenue, Brighton East.
Marion Deidre Kerr is shown at same address. The Herald Sun obituaries site has her death notice in 1 May 1999 (30 April)

I'll check Ancestry and see if a link to the family shows up.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

at start of June 1898 ref to Kirwin getting permit from St Kilda to Albert Park
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9836495

Wonder if there has been some mix-up in the VFL/AFL records, and rather than Albert Park being the club he came from,
perhaps it is the club he went to ?

There are also a number of refs on Trove to a Kirwin/Kirwan/Kerwin (and sometimes more specifically i.d by his initial)
playing first-grade cricket with St Kilda from the late 1890s up to at least 1908

From Vic BDMs site
Edmund's birth was registered in 1876 #11549 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunn)
cannot find any ref to his death

his brother Maurice's birth was registered in 1882 #8973 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunne)
Maurice's death was registered in 1960 #2974 - parents listed as Michael and Kate

Haven't found any suitable Ancestry clues yet, nor ref to either brother in the Melbourne General Cemetery.
Unfortunately, the father Michael died aged 40 in 1884, and I'm not sure if the mother later re-marries.
Thus searching for a suitably "fulsome" family notice has been difficult too.

Am pinning hopes on Maurice's death notice/s in about 1960 - by that era, notices often have wider family links identified.
No ref on Ryerson Index yet.

According to Vic Premier cricket site (http://premier.cricketvictoria.com.au/files/3/files/player-register-career-stats/Register I-M.pdf) the cricketer was Edward Kirwan (~1872 - 20/2/1929) - there is a chance he was the footballer as well. His death record gives his parents as Michael Kirwan and Elizabeth Shea.

Edmund Kirwin (b1876) had another brother - Michael William John Kirwen (b1880; d 1952) but can't seem to find a 1952 death notice either...

Spelling of surnames seem to be any of Kirwin/Kirwen/Kirwan across these records....

 

[rbartlett]

Brief note everyone to say I sent Part 1 of my email off to Stephen Rodgers, showing all your work with approximately 40 DOD details.
He's replied back and to paraphase he is over-the-moon with the research we have all done and is so grateful to all your research and hard work.

 

[35Daicos]

at start of June 1898 ref to Kirwin getting permit from St Kilda to Albert Park
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9836495

Wonder if there has been some mix-up in the VFL/AFL records, and rather than Albert Park being the club he came from,
perhaps it is the club he went to ?

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=EVKlETVVbN8C&dat=18980513 (The Herald, 13 May 1898)

He gets a couple of mentions here: "Kirwan, Albert Park's crack forward, will be in the St. Kilda team." and (Albert Park wrap-up) "Kirwan to St. Kilda". So it seems he went from that club to St Kilda, played the one game, then promptly returned to Albert Park.

 

[35Daicos]

From Vic BDMs site
Edmund's birth was registered in 1876 #11549 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunn)
cannot find any ref to his death

his brother Maurice's birth was registered in 1882 #8973 - parents Michael and Kate (nee Dunne)
Maurice's death was registered in 1960 #2974 - parents listed as Michael and Kate

Haven't found any suitable Ancestry clues yet, nor ref to either brother in the Melbourne General Cemetery.
Unfortunately, the father Michael died aged 40 in 1884, and I'm not sure if the mother later re-marries.
Thus searching for a suitably "fulsome" family notice has been difficult too.

Am pinning hopes on Maurice's death notice/s in about 1960 - by that era, notices often have wider family links identified.
No ref on Ryerson Index yet.

According to Vic Premier cricket site (http://premier.cricketvictoria.com.au/files/3/files/player-register-career-stats/Register I-M.pdf) the cricketer was Edward Kirwan (~1872 - 20/2/1929) - there is a chance he was the footballer as well. His death record gives his parents as Michael Kirwan and Elizabeth Shea.

Edmund Kirwin (b1876) had another brother - Michael William John Kirwen (b1880; d 1952) but can't seem to find a 1952 death notice either...

Spelling of surnames seem to be any of Kirwin/Kirwen/Kirwan across these records....

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206211071/19721597

??? Kirwen (brother of Maurice) died July 18 1952.

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206211071/19721597

??? Kirwen (brother of Maurice) died July 18 1952.

This 1952 death is for the following. ie not Edmund

Record information
EventDeath

Event registration number8167

Registration year1952

Personal information
Family nameKIRWEN

Given namesMichael William John

SexMale

Father's nameKIRWEN Michael

Mother's nameCatherine (Dunn)

Place of birthEMERALD HILL

Place of deathKENSINGTON

Age73

 

[35Daicos]

This 1952 death is for the following. ie not Edmund

Record information
EventDeath

Event registration number8167

Registration year1952

Personal information
Family nameKIRWEN

Given namesMichael William John

SexMale

Father's nameKIRWEN Michael

Mother's nameCatherine (Dunn)

Place of birthEMERALD HILL

Place of deathKENSINGTON

Age73

Ok, thanks for that. WhiteHartLane23 said he had looked for a 1952 death notice for Michael William John Kirwen so I thought it rather likely that it would be his.

 

[rbartlett]

Twelfth batch of DOD players

Christopher "Chris" John Lamborn (Nth Melb 1938, Sth 1943, StK 1944) (b: 3/4/1916) Orig club Rochester.
Reginald John "Jack" Law (Foots 1943-44) (b: 18/7/1924) Orig club: Yarraville. No Death details located - believed to possibly still be living
Robert "Bert" Gribbon Lawrence (SthM 1921;1925) (Melb 1926) (b: 7/1/1902) Orig club Howe Crescent, South Melb YEAR OF DEATH FOUND. NOT COMPLETE DOD YET
William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy (Foots 1934-1936) ((b: 7/3/1911 ) (Orig club Coburg)
Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee (Coll 1897-98) (b: 11/12/1874) (Orig club Richmond City)
Kenneth "Ken" Emery Levey (Melb1943-44) (b: 4/5/1923) (Orig club Melbourne Grammar) "Name changed from Lander by deed poll in 1942"

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206211071/19721597

??? Kirwen (brother of Maurice) died July 18 1952.

This suggests Edmund Kirwin is likely to have died before July 1952 - either that or no longer in touch with his brothers...
There is basically no trace of him other than a birth record in records on Ancestry or on Trove - makes me suspect he died quite young.

 

[GreyCrow]

Twelfth batch of DOD players

Robert "Bert" Gribbon Lawrence (SthM 1921;1925) (Melb 1926) (b: 7/1/1902) Orig club Howe Crescent, South Melb

Using Roberts wife Lucy Evelyn Butlin as a search point I found this article in Trove http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164499263

( thank you) and so found both Robert and Lucy passing in South Australia . I have SA BDM records and they say Robert passed in 1975 and Lucy Evelyn in 1987

 

[GreyCrow]

Kenneth "Ken" Emery Levey (Melb1943-44) (b: 4/5/1923) (Orig club Melbourne Grammar) "Name changed from Lander by deed poll in 1942"

Where did the information on the Deed Poll name change come from? I ask because I have found a mention of a bonny baby comp in 1924 where a Kenneth Emery Levey is named http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article222809883

There are many notices of schoolboy prowess using Levey as a search term as well.

Edit: Have found a family page that suggests he changed his name after marriage to Landers his mothers maiden name. This page suggests he has died date unknown , though needs updating. Fay his wife is listed as dying in 1999 ( on same page)

Edit: Found him

Passed away 1985 this link should show headstone. https://billiongraves.com/grave/Kenneth-E-Lander/587134

No dates given and has born Melbourne died England and name of wife Fay which is confirmed by this Trove notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23038383

 

[35Daicos]

Where did the information on the Deed Poll name change come from? I ask because I have found a mention of a bonny baby comp in 1924 where a Kenneth Emery Levey is named http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article222809883

There are many notices of schoolboy prowess using Levey as a search term as well.

Edit: Have found a family page that suggests he changed his name after marriage to Landers his mothers maiden name. This page suggests he has died date unknown , though needs updating. Fay his wife is listed as dying in 1999 ( on same page)

Edit: Found him

Passed away 1985 this link should show headstone. https://billiongraves.com/grave/Kenneth-E-Lander/587134

No dates given and has born Melbourne died England and name of wife Fay which is confirmed by this Trove notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23038383

http://burials.wandsworth.gov.uk/#

A search here ^ says: Cremation 06/03/1985, Burial 13/03/1985.

 

[rbartlett]

Where did the information on the Deed Poll name change come from?

Well found.
The deed poll info I typed from the handwritten notes of Stephen Rogers. Sorry for not making that clear. Anything I put in italics is handwritten from the AFL on the sheet they gave me.

 

[the croucher]

Twelfth batch of DOD players
<snip>
William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy (Foots 1934-1936) ((b: 7/3/1911 ) (Orig club Coburg)
<snip>

Progress report on search for Billy Leahy.


Leahy's birth reg in 1911 at Vic BDMs #1903
parents are shown as William Francis and Louise (nee Green).
So far, have not found ref to any other children born to that couple.

The 1936 electoral roll in Bourke electorate sub-district Miltchell (state electorate id as Coburg)
shows WF [butcher], WF jnr [welder], and Louisa [rather than Louise] all living at 22 Crisp Street.

By 1949 the parents are in same area, but now at 9 Bishop Street, no ref to footballer.
The last entry I can find for them is at same address in 1954. Not sure where footballer is living.

 

[GreyCrow]

Using Roberts wife Lucy Evelyn Butlin as a search point I found this article in Trove http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article164499263

( thank you) and so found both Robert and Lucy passing in South Australia . I have SA BDM records and they say Robert passed in 1975 and Lucy Evelyn in 1987

Spent an hour chasing this death up and interestingly there is nothing in the Savill Index of Advertiser notices , yet the SA BDM mentions a newspaper report. Maybe a regional paper? But in 1949 they are living in Mitcham.

There are no cemetery records ( for the major Adelaide cemeteries ) but I did manage to find an Ancestry Family Tree entry that says Robert died at the RAH on Jan 8 1975. Take this with a grain of salt. I shall chase up the supposed Newspaper entry ( actually The News was still printing then) if I get to the State Library in the future.