Mitchell Marsh

[Scotland]

Steve Waugh scored nearly 11,000 runs @ 51 and took 92 wickets @ 37.

I'm well aware he was more accomplished at the same age/number of tests as Marsh but he was nothing special for a while and became a test great and captain.

Just pointing out that it's entirely possible that Marsh won't average 26 forever. IMO he shouldn't have been in the squad for this series because his test/FC form didn't justify it, but given he was in the 13 he was the obvious pick for this test.

FWIW this is our current top 6 with their FC records in brackets.

Harris (35.5)
Finch (36)
Khawaja (43.9)
S Marsh (41)
Head (36.9)
M Marsh (31.9)

Recent picks:

Handscomb (38.7)
Labuschagne (33.2)
Bancroft (38.4)
Renshaw (37.8)
Maddinson (35.9)

All rounder competition:

Maxwell (41.1 - would have played 50 tests by now if he bowled 140km/h and not spin)
Cartwright (35.9)
Stoinis (33.6)
Agar (25.6)

Can we at least agree that Marsh is a Delaware in a top 6 full of Ruby Lous and Royal Blues? Andrew Symonds averaged 40 from 26 tests and isn't really thought of as a good test cricketer because he played in such a strong era. He'd be our best player in the top 6 right now. Ideally Marsh or any other all rounder at 6 averages 40-45 with the bat and 30-40 with the ball as a 5-10 overs an innings on average contributor. But ****, if someone can average 40-45 in our current top 6 then it doesn't matter if they can bowl...

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Andrew Symonds averaged 40 from 26 tests and isn't really thought of as a good test cricketer because he played in such a strong era. He'd be our best player in the top 6 right now.

Would Symonds have averaged 40 batting in this team? No way.

The pressure on every batsman now, almost every innings, is infinitely greater than what Symonds had to contend with.

Not trying to take anything away from Symonds. He played his role well in a team which could afford him.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Probably one of Mitch's better tests so far. Has bowled well, played his role. Hopefully he can hold up an end with the willow in hand too.

Bowled well? **** me you have low standards

 

[RookiePick]

Bowled well? **** me you have low standards

He is there to bowl tight and spell the front line quicks. If he picked a wicket or two that would be a bonus. No one honestly thinks he is Jacques Kallis do they?

I look forward to all the ranting shortly if Mmarsh goes out cheaply at 4/80 odd. It will no doubt be his fault that the top order are hopeless.

 

[SunshineBoy]

He is there to bowl tight and spell the front line quicks. If he picked a wicket or two that would be a bonus. No one honestly thinks he is Jacques Kallis do they?

I look forward to all the ranting shortly if Mmarsh goes out cheaply at 4/80 odd. It will no doubt be his fault that the top order are hopeless.

0-50 odd is not good bowling doesn’t matter how you try and wrap it up

 

[eth-dog]

0-50 odd is not good bowling doesn’t matter how you try and wrap it up

50 runs from 26-ish overs? He looked more dangerous than most of our bowlers on day 1.

 

[RookiePick]

0-50 odd is not good bowling doesn’t matter how you try and wrap it up

True. The rest of our bowlers were dominant when you frame it like that.

 

[SunshineBoy]

True. The rest of our bowlers were dominant when you frame it like that.

Never said the others were dom8nant , just saying 0-50 can not be considered a good day out for a bowler

 

[Damon_3388]

After 4 years Steve Waugh averaged 30 with the bat and 40 with the ball. Good thing we didn't persist with him...

This line gets trotted out everytime....Steve Waugh averaged more than 32 in first class cricket for ****s sake

Steve Waugh's career Shield numbers (85 matches):

Batting - 49.69 average (22 hundreds, 24 fifties)
Bowling - 30.78 average, 65.13 strike rate, 2.83 economy rate (2 5-fers)

Those are genuinely great all-round numbers.

Part of the problem with Waugh when he first came into the Test side (apart from his age and inexperience) was that he was forced to bowl much more than he should have been. He was often used as the 3rd or 4th bowler, bowling 1st or 2nd change, due to our lack of depth and talent. If he was used relatively sparingly as the 5th bowler like Mitch Marsh is, then it's entirely possible his evolution and improvement as a batsman would have come sooner.

By comparison, let's look at Mitch Marsh's career Shield numbers (46 matches):

Batting - 28.02 average (3 hundreds, 11 fifties)
Bowling - 30.28 average, 53.43 strike rate, 3.40 economy rate (1 5-fer)

If he was averaging something close to 40 with the bat, while maintaining those bowling numbers, I could understand his selection. At the moment though, he's fairly mediocre with both bat and ball at Shield level, occasionally capable of something great, but most of the time fairly average. It's only the prescribed need for an all-rounder which sees him keep getting selected IMO.

 

[Damon_3388]

a) The selectors need to give him a full domestic season at least. He’s taken great strides already in my eyes.

b) People need to get off his back. He’s still one of our best prospects and is in no way a ‘hack’, as his detractors would have you believe.

I know your comment is over a year ago now, but Marsh is 27 years old now. He's running out of potential, and getting close to his ceiling. He's got to start being judged on what he is now, rather than what he could be.

 

[Scotland]

I know your comment is over a year ago now, but Marsh is 27 years old now. He's running out of potential, and getting close to his ceiling. He's got to start being judged on what he is now, rather than what he could be.

Ha, you gotta be kidding. His brother is still picked on potential and is 35. Shane Watson was in the frame for a dozen or so years despite having two calendar year averages over 40 out of 9. He'd probably still be in the frame now at 37 if he hadn't retired to cash in on T20 cricket. Mitch Marsh will be in the frame for a while yet.

 

[Skeppersap]

That pull shot when we are 5-90..... **** me dead!!! Do stupid, so bad at cricket!!!

Glad he got booed..... He does not deserve to earn a living from this!

 

[gym4life]

Ha, you gotta be kidding. His brother is still picked on potential and is 35. Shane Watson was in the frame for a dozen or so years despite having two calendar year averages over 40 out of 9. He'd probably still be in the frame now at 37 if he hadn't retired to cash in on T20 cricket. Mitch Marsh will be in the frame for a while yet.

Watson was also ten times the cricketer marsh will ever be.

 

[MALTSY]

If Marsh is there to bowl tight and spell our fast bowlers then we are setting the bar way too low.

 

[HTPunter]

Would be a lot more fun watching him if he was coming in at 6 after Ponting, Clark, Hussey for example...his powerful stroke play would demoralise sides after the first few had put on the runs.

 

[MALTSY]

Watson was also ten times the cricketer marsh will ever be.

Yep...Watto was a clever bowler with excellent variation.

 

[gym4life]

Goodbye campaigner.

 

[Damon_3388]

Ha, you gotta be kidding. His brother is still picked on potential and is 35. Shane Watson was in the frame for a dozen or so years despite having two calendar year averages over 40 out of 9. He'd probably still be in the frame now at 37 if he hadn't retired to cash in on T20 cricket. Mitch Marsh will be in the frame for a while yet.

He probably will be in the frame. I'm just saying, we've got to stop talking about him like he's still a 20-year-old with a bunch of untapped potential (he made his T20I and ODI debuts just days before his 20th birthday, and made his Test debut a couple of days after his 23rd birthday), and realise that at age 27, he's closer to his ceiling than his floor at the moment.

I do agree though that what he really needed at some stage over the past couple of years was a full season of being a proper all-rounder at state level in all formats, batting at #4, and being the 2nd change/4th bowler. He'll never get that though, as he's in the frame for international selection in all formats.

 

[Scotland]

Steve Waugh's career Shield numbers:

Batting - 49.69 average (22 hundreds, 24 fifties)
Bowling - 30.78 average, 65.13 strike rate, 2.83 economy rate (2 5-fers)

Those are genuinely great all-round numbers.

Part of the problem with Waugh when he first came into the Test side (apart from his age and inexperience) was that he was forced to bowl much more than he should have been. He was often used as the 3rd or 4th bowler, bowling 1st or 2nd change, due to our lack of depth and talent. If he was used relatively sparingly as the 5th bowler like Mitch Marsh is, then it's entirely possible his evolution and improvement as a batsman would have come sooner.

By comparison, let's look at Mitch Marsh's career Shield numbers:

Batting - 28.02 average (3 hundreds, 11 fifties)
Bowling - 30.28 average, 53.43 strike rate, 3.40 economy rate (1 5-fer)

If he was averaging something close to 40 with the bat, while maintaining those bowling numbers, I could understand his selection. At the moment though, he's fairly mediocre with both bat and ball at Shield level, occasionally capable of something great, but most of the time fairly average. It's only the prescribed need for an all-rounder which sees him keep getting selected IMO.

Waugh played a lot of Shield cricket so has a good body of work to look at, and an excellent record. His early years in the test team were before my time watching cricket.

You could argue Marsh has had the reverse treatment to Waugh. Constantly picked 'because we need an all rounder' and then hardly bowls. So he gets picked as an all rounder, bowls a couple of overs at most and then is criticised if he doesn't perform as well as a pure batsman.

IMO the selectors have given him more chances than he's earned and also managed to not be fair with him. In on potential, out, in when he hasn't done anything to warrant a recall etc.

And now he's out for 9, super.

 

[Amazing Racer]

Slow clap...........so Langer, is MMarsh still a valuable commodity????

 

[Scotland]

Watson was also ten times the cricketer marsh will ever be.

LOL.

59 tests for 4 100s and an average of 35.

An absolutely outstanding white ball player, though. ODI and T20I record doesn't get nearly enough praise for how good it is. Would be in the frame for the World Cup if he hadn't retired.

 

[eth-dog]

It's odd that he continually gets selected in test match cricket where he's struggled a lot, but he hasn't been picked in ODI's where he actually has a very good record.

 

[gym4life]

LOL.

59 tests for 4 100s and an average of 35.

An absolutely outstanding white ball player, though. ODI and T20I record doesn't get nearly enough praise for how good it is. Would be in the frame for the World Cup if he hadn't retired.

He’d be our best player right now quite comfortably, I said it years ago and everyone disagreed but Mitch marsh will never go close to the heights of shame Watson.

 

[SunshineBoy]

That innings is got to be worth another 5 tests

 

[eth-dog]

He’d be our best player right now quite comfortably, I said it years ago and everyone disagreed but Mitch marsh will never go close to the heights of shame Watson.

Khawaja shits on Watson as a batsman