Moises Henriques - WTF

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Banga19 said:
Early days I know, but if he was to cement in the test team do people think 6 is his long term spot?
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he has the technique to bat in the top order, but whether he has the mental application and is capable of doing so alongside bowling 10-15 overs a day in the field is a complete other story. many have tried and the vast majority have failed.
 

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frankrizzo said:
As long as he isn't at 7 long term.

He's no bowling allrounder, he's going to need runs to hold his spot.

The 5 frontline bats/keeper at 6/bowling allrounder at 7 rubbish has to stop.
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I think 6 and 7 both have to be bats, or have to hold their place with runs. Like, if it's Wade at 6 and Moises at 7 or vice-versa I won't care. They're both good enough to hod down their spots at those places with runs
 
If he's not batting above Wade, I think you have to question whether his batting is really good enough to merit his place in the side long-term. Sure Wade is a good batsman but I think the point of having an allrounder is that you either play him as a dedicated bowler or a dedicated top 6 and everything else is gravy.

He's not batting 1-3, not only because he's not good enough but also because you need to have a really really good reason to play an allrounder at the top of the order.

With him as a fifth bowler, you aren't going to select anyone who isn't a specialist bowler who is a worse batsman than he is. Most of our specialist batsmen prefer playing higher in the order. He doesn't have a reputation for playing big innings, but he's a solid bat who can stick around, clearly doesn't mind a bit of spin, runs between the wickets well, and has the technique to allow him to vary his scoring rate with ease. To me that screams number six, at least initially.

A minor quibble but if he bats at 6 I would like to see him work on his batting with tailenders, however. As good as his second innings was, I was a little unimpressed by the fact he only farmed the strike on a few occasions. If he had done it a little more intelligently, neither Pattinson nor Lyon would have faced the balls that dismissed them.
 
eth-dog said:
I think 6 and 7 both have to be bats, or have to hold their place with runs. Like, if it's Wade at 6 and Moises at 7 or vice-versa I won't care. They're both good enough to hod down their spots at those places with runs
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My issue with wade being the long term 6 is it leads them to do crazy things like play a johnson or starc as a bowling allrounder at 7.

They got lucky but lets be realistic they picked henriques in the first test as a 5th bowler who might make a few runs at 7.
 
frankrizzo said:
My issue with wade being the long term 6 is it leads them to do crazy things like play a johnson or starc as a bowling allrounder at 7.

They got lucky but lets be realistic they picked henriques in the first test as a 5th bowler who might make a few runs at 7.
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I see your point, but I think we'll see M Marsh as our long-term 6/7 with Wade once he uses all his talent at FC level.
 
Caesar said:
If he's not batting above Wade, I think you have to question whether his batting is really good enough to merit his place in the side long-term. Sure Wade is a good batsman but I think the point of having an allrounder is that you either play him as a dedicated bowler or a dedicated top 6 and everything else is gravy.

He's not batting 1-3, not only because he's not good enough but also because you need to have a really really good reason to play an allrounder at the top of the order.

With him as a fifth bowler, you aren't going to select anyone who isn't a specialist bowler who is a worse batsman than he is. Most of our specialist batsmen prefer playing higher in the order. He doesn't have a reputation for playing big innings, but he's a solid bat who can stick around, clearly doesn't mind a bit of spin, runs between the wickets well, and has the technique to allow him to vary his scoring rate with ease. To me that screams number six, at least initially.

A minor quibble but if he bats at 6 I would like to see him work on his batting with tailenders, however. As good as his second innings was, I was a little unimpressed by the fact he only farmed the strike on a few occasions. If he had done it a little more intelligently, neither Pattinson nor Lyon would have faced the balls that dismissed them.
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I think you could cut the guy a bit more slack considering he was playing his first test. I know if I was a new player in the test side i'd be trying to get my confidence in my own game at test level up first, before trying to control a run chase/rearguard effort with tailenders. I mean, Australian supporters have been blessed to have two of the finest exponents of batting with the tail ever to play the game - AB and Huss. They've set the bar of expectation for a no 5/6 pretty high, but it's also important to remember they'd had a fair bit of experience behind them before they became as good at it as they were.
 
Nah I agree with The Reaper somewhat. I did think that for a little while. Between Clarke getting out and Lyon making a stand, Henriques didn't really farm the strike at all - he just played his own game, stayed pretty conservative, didn't take risks. Looked to me like a guy looking after his own wicket - which made sense. He was on about 20, the tail was collapsing, we were looking at an innings defeat and his position was still in doubt. When it looked like he was going to finish with a couple of dozen runs that innings either way, a * would have made his position a lot more secure.

Once Lyon started to look like he was going to hang around I think he sort of thought "hang on, we can do something here". He started turning down singles at the beginning of the over and stuff like that, batting more as the senior partner.
 

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Caesar said:
Nah I agree with The Reaper somewhat. I did think that for a little while. Between Clarke getting out and Lyon making a stand, Henriques didn't really farm the strike at all - he just played his own game, stayed pretty conservative, didn't take risks. Looked to me like a guy looking after his own wicket - which made sense. He was on about 20, the tail was collapsing, we were looking at an innings defeat and his position was still in doubt. When it looked like he was going to finish with a couple of dozen runs that innings either way, a * would have made his position a lot more secure.

Once Lyon started to look like he was going to hang around I think he sort of thought "hang on, we can do something here". He started turning down singles at the beginning of the over and stuff like that, batting more as the senior partner.
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I'd say that was a confidence thing as opposed to a selfish thing though. He'd already done enough in the first innings to hold his spot.
 
I don't think that's fair. I bet there's a directive from the coaching staff to place trust in the tail because they are all reasonably solid batsmen.

Additionally, if we were to make a competitive total, we couldn't afford to farm the strike. We had to trust that the bloke at the other end could hold on and make some runs too. When you're farming the strike, you can't dictate play to the bowlers or field. As such, particularly on such a volatile pitch, you're going to get out pretty quickly for not many. All India would need to do is set the field out early in the over and bring it in at the end. The batsman would be playing an unnatural, defensive game and wouldn't be scoring runs.

Meanwhile, the bowler at the other end would lack confidence and wouldn't get the opportunity to get his eye in so when he inevitably faced the ball, he'd be worse off.
 
Wade is a very competent #7. I can see him as being the best batsman/keeper in the world one day
 
The Reaper said:
I thought it was obvious in the second innings that Henriques wanted to be the bloke with an * next to his score.
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Surely he would have preferred a chance at a century?

Anyway, from this point on, if he plays, he bats at 6, but as he develops he may be able to move to 5, or even 4. That's a long way off yet though, and really depends on if he develops as more of a batsman who bowls (Kallis style) or a bowler who bats (Flintoff style).
 
eth-dog said:
Wade is a very competent #7. I can see him as being the best batsman/keeper in the world one day
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I think Wade has brilliant batting potential, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be more than serviceable with the gloves. Most batsmen-keepers don't improve that much as keepers after getting into the side, because they have to spend so much time maintaining their batting at Test level. Rod Marsh did, but then the batting expectations for keepers were a lot lower in those days.

If Wade can polish up his technique a bit (particularly against spinners) to the point where he is about as good as Haddin was at his best, then I will be more than satisfied.

Personally I dislike the selection of batsman/keepers for Test teams. I think a keeper who is excellent with the gloves can easily make up for a deficiency of 10+ runs in his batting average simply by the number of byes he saves - let alone the extra chances he takes.
 
BarneyBent said:
Surely he would have preferred a chance at a century?

Anyway, from this point on, if he plays, he bats at 6, but as he develops he may be able to move to 5, or even 4. That's a long way off yet though, and really depends on if he develops as more of a batsman who bowls (Kallis style) or a bowler who bats (Flintoff style).
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I should have phrased it better.

Early in his innings when he was batting with Siddle, Pattinson, Starc etc I believe that he was interested in getting a not out score.
This is why he did not farm the strike.

Once he believed that avoiding an innings deafeat was possible he batted more responsibly.
 
thorne89 said:
Dinesh Chandimal will have him covered comfortably IMO.
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Would love that. Can see him having a similar career trajectory to Wade too - gun in the short forms, moving to tests and having an impact. I think he has a very high ceiling.

Luckily for Wade he's an excellent batsman, I'm all about gloves before...blades (there's no real rhyme there sadly) but Wade is good enough with the bat to keep his spot. I'd be happy to play him as a batsman and get a great keeper who can bat a bit in but that's getting off-topic.

Well done Moises. Was surprised to see he did so well but in a good way :thumbsu:
 

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Moises Henriques - WTF

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