List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)

[spotthedog1]

I can't remember whether it was an Essendon poster here or if I heard it on SEN, but someone who sounded like a reasonably intelligent Bombers person stated that Daniher's "issues" were NOT actually physical but almost entirely mental, in that Joe was fed up to the eyeballs with the fishbowl life that is the lot of a high profile player in Melbourne

So if this is the case and he wants to come to the Lions, we would be bat sh*t crazy not to accommodate a move here.

Within reason of course.

Good move by Noble and co to set out the ground rules so Dodo doesn't start getting any fancy ideas about "forcing" a trade

It's a grass-is-greener problem though, isn't it?

"I'm not happy here. So I should go elsewhere." 10 mins later... "Oh wait, I'm not happy here either?"

Moving might solve his problem... It also might not. The problem may not be your location; it might by your health, or your attitude, or anything else. Dayne Beams comes to mind...

 

[Tom14]

For those who wondered if Dodoro had mellowed and might be more reasonable, the Age is reporting that their opening request for Saad was Walsh, Curnow, or McKay.

 

[Paul Mac]

For those who wondered if Dodoro had mellowed and might be more reasonable, the Age is reporting that their opening request for Saad was Walsh, Curnow, or McKay.

Yeah you know that will not happen but you have to start high and work your way down i suppose. Hes not gonna ask for murphy, fisher or gibbons. I rate Saad so you want to get something good IMO

 

[BangyBangy]

For those who wondered if Dodoro had mellowed and might be more reasonable, the Age is reporting that their opening request for Saad was Walsh, Curnow, or McKay.

Pretty much what I expected, but the reality is (Essendon knows it, and every other team knows it), they will get what Carlton is prepared to give them, or nothing at all. They have zeeeeerrrroooo leverage.

Essendon will pay a big price here (and with the Daniher exit) for being a poor culture basket case club. Been there, done that, it happens, deal with it & move on. I do have empathy for their supporters though, we know exactly how this feels, and it sucks, emotionally paying for the incompetence of a club's board & staff.

 

[Surly Boy]

Also from the Age article on Saad:

"The Bombers are also working through how to deal with restricted free agent Joe Daniher and his request to move to Brisbane.

If the Bombers deem the free-agency compensation pick they would receive for Daniher - expected to be a first-round pick depending on the contract terms the Lions offer - is insufficient and they match the Lions' contract terms, then Brisbane would be forced into trading for the player.

And after potentially losing players the Bombers will be searching and negotiating for replacement players to come into the club."

 

[BangyBangy]

Also from the Age article on Saad:

"The Bombers are also working through how to deal with restricted free agent Joe Daniher and his request to move to Brisbane.

If the Bombers deem the free-agency compensation pick they would receive for Daniher - expected to be a first-round pick depending on the contract terms the Lions offer - is insufficient and they match the Lions' contract terms, then Brisbane would be forced into trading for the player.

And after potentially losing players the Bombers will be searching and negotiating for replacement players to come into the club."

So I guess it comes down to are we prepared to risk not picking up Daniher, compared to is Essendon prepared to match & not get anything for him. Happy where we stand.

We've made a prelim this year without him. Our best years are ahead of us. And as 3KZ is Football will tell you, McStay hasn't even hit his straps yet. You wait till he does.

 

[3KZ is Football]

So I guess it comes down to are we prepared to risk not picking up Daniher, compared to is Essendon prepared to match & not get anything for him. Happy where we stand.

We've made a prelim this year without him. Our best years are ahead of us. And as 3KZ is Football will tell you, McStay hasn't even hit his straps yet. You wait till he does.

No Comment

 

[LIONS08]

For those who wondered if Dodoro had mellowed and might be more reasonable, the Age is reporting that their opening request for Saad was Walsh, Curnow, or McKay.

“Fine if you won’t give us one of them.... your first pick and Tom De Koning” Hahahaha oh geez!!

 

[youneverknow22]

Nothing would please me more than to see Dodoro get nothing as Daniher goes through the draft to come here or to Sydney.

 

[Tom14]

So I guess it comes down to are we prepared to risk not picking up Daniher, compared to is Essendon prepared to match & not get anything for him. Happy where we stand.

We've made a prelim this year without him. Our best years are ahead of us. And as 3KZ is Football will tell you, McStay hasn't even hit his straps yet. You wait till he does.

I've gone back and forwards on this but I'm predicting a match. There is a big sunk cost here for Dodoro - he turned down a way better deal last year on the basis that they would be a contender and could turn Joe around. He'll feel like he can't back down, and the new President at Essendon very much seems the type to think that they have been too soft on players (even post drugs saga) and in trade demands.

Bringing Sheeds onto the board and sending him out into the media over the weekend reeks of a desperate club making a PR move ahead of a shocking period of unrest. I know this because its what we got Lethal in to be footy director in October 2013 and he was talking tough on trades until he stood aside from that role in 2017.

 

[Tom14]

Yeah you know that will not happen but you have to start high and work your way down i suppose. Hes not gonna ask for murphy, fisher or gibbons. I rate Saad so you want to get something good IMO

What's the point of starting high when it is ludicrous, and you have a reputation of asking for the moon and backing down later or shooting yourself in the foot by walking away from deals that you should take. Fair enough to have an opening ambit claim, but to ask for one of Carlton's three most important players, all of whom are 24 or younger, is far too ludicrous to serve as such.

 

[Gadzorks]

I've gone back and forwards on this but I'm predicting a match. There is a big sunk cost here for Dodoro - he turned down a way better deal last year on the basis that they would be a contender and could turn Joe around. He'll feel like he can't back down, and the new President at Essendon very much seems the type to think that they have been too soft on players (even post drugs saga) and in trade demands.

Bringing Sheeds onto the board and sending him out into the media over the weekend reeks of a desperate club making a PR move ahead of a shocking period of unrest. I know this because its what we got Lethal in to be footy director in October 2013 and he was talking tough on trades until he stood aside from that role in 2017.

The cost of that though is even more unrest and dissatisfaction in the playing group and a bigger exodus next year. At some point they are going to have to start all over again, what happens now just signals if they are at the bottom yet or if there is worse to come.

Fagan et al have shown that big dominating personalities that attempt to dominate the people around them are not necessary for a successful club. Arguably players with those attributes are needed, but again I think our club is trending away to more group focused players.

 

[Tom14]

The cost of that though is even more unrest and dissatisfaction in the playing group and a bigger exodus next year. At some point they are going to have to start all over again, what happens now just signals if they are at the bottom yet or if there is worse to come.

Fagan et al have shown that big dominating personalities that attempt to dominate the people around them are not necessary for a successful club. Arguably players with those attributes are needed, but again I think our club is trending away to more group focused players.

I completely agree with you, but I'm confident Essendon's heads are still firmly stuck in the sand and will be there for some time. For us, it took a further 3 seasons of poor performance post 2013 to hit rock bottom and clean out our off-field staff and get rid of some players who were more trouble than their worth. It may take even longer for the bombers because the AFL won't step in to assert order (as happened to us) and they are still semi-dominated by the coteris.

 

[Tom14]

As a final thought if Dodoro was smart he'd not match Daniher, work out another deal to add a bit of value for them with us, and then take that goodwill into negotiating hard with Carlton.

 

[BangyBangy]

I've gone back and forwards on this but I'm predicting a match. There is a big sunk cost here for Dodoro - he turned down a way better deal last year on the basis that they would be a contender and could turn Joe around. He'll feel like he can't back down, and the new President at Essendon very much seems the type to think that they have been too soft on players (even post drugs saga) and in trade demands.

Bringing Sheeds onto the board and sending him out into the media over the weekend reeks of a desperate club making a PR move ahead of a shocking period of unrest. I know this because its what we got Lethal in to be footy director in October 2013 and he was talking tough on trades until he stood aside from that role in 2017.

Que sera sera then Tom.

A month or two ago, before all this Daniher stuff came up, I was chatting with opposition footy friends about how great a position the Lions were in for the next five to eight years in terms of finals etc if we play our cards right with drafts & trades.

A big part of the conversation was not selling the farm in a desperate attempt to snag a flag, but realizing (which I'm sure the club does) that we have a young talented list that we can keep drip feeding the first round picks into now that will keep us up the pointy end for the best part of a decade.

All (Bombers fan, Doggies fan, and Hawks fan) were all in agreeance.

It's nerve wrecking for fans, but confident enough this is how it plays out. Nothing I have seen from Swann, Noble, Fagan & co has made me doubt their judgement to date.

 

[Paul Mac]

What's the point of starting high when it is ludicrous, and you have a reputation of asking for the moon and backing down later or shooting yourself in the foot by walking away from deals that you should take. Fair enough to have an opening ambit claim, but to ask for one of Carlton's three most important players, all of whom are 24 or younger, is far too ludicrous to serve as such.

I agreed with you stating that wont happen with what he asked but my view you want to maybe start a little bit higher than saad and see how you go. For sure none of those are going what he asked. As you say you have to have an opening ambit claim. Funny as i am typing this a guy is on SEN having a crack at Didoro for how he handles things.

 

[Dalions]

I think for both Daniher and Fantasia with this being their second year of wanting out, Dodo will accept what is on offer for these 2 and will then play hardball with any others, particularly Saad.

 

[M Malice]

The Bombers are in an eerily similar situation to us and the go home 5 year, Fantasia, Daniher and Saad wanting out because of cultural issues, although the wantaway 3 are more entrenched as 1st 22 players the Bombers will largely have to suck it up and take what they are offered IMO, take the bitter pill for the long term benefit of their club.

FWIW if Dodumbo is stubborn and decides to force a trade IMO we will do a deal, with Daniher coming out and nominating us we would have given him some sort of commitment to get him to the club. I can't see us telling Joe/his manager in negotiations- We'd love you at our club but if we have to trade for you it's not worth it.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I'm only into this trading thing as there is nothing else to do so can I ask a question?

Is this the longest trade thread on the Brisbane Bigfooty page ever?

What was the biggest trade thread for a player who never arrived?

 

[Lace Out]

For those who wondered if Dodoro had mellowed and might be more reasonable, the Age is reporting that their opening request for Saad was Walsh, Curnow,and McKay.

EFA

 

[Lace Out]

I'm only into this trading thing as there is nothing else to do so can I ask a question?

Is this the longest trade thread on the Brisbane Bigfooty page ever?

What was the biggest trade thread for a player who never arrived?

Tippett would have been up there.

 

[dlanod]

Is this the longest trade thread on the Brisbane Bigfooty page ever?

No way.

Beams mk 1 is my first thought of the longest one. Mk 2 might well be second.

 

[LongLion]

No Comment

Well done. I AM impressed!

 

[lionraven]

Crazy Dodoro is using such a high opening gambit to anchor discussions and the media to his viewpoint. He says only Band 1 is enough otherwise we want 2 firsts and Witho. Suddenly the media narrative is on how Daniher is not worth 2 firsts and a player. Maybe Lions should give one first and a player. That dominates the media landscape and adds pressure on us to meet the Bombers demands. Hopefully our negotiators stick fat and come up with creative solutions like we did with the Beams to Neale trade. I think the late firsts in this year hold more value than in previous years. This year has been compromised making it harder to get as good a read on the draftees compared to previous. There will be high potential players available at the tail end of the first who may have bolted up the boards if they had enough opportunity or exposure. There will be plenty of sliders. We might be able to pick up sn unrecognised talent late first round.

 

[BangyBangy]

The Bombers are in an eerily similar situation to us and the go home 5 year, Fantasia, Daniher and Saad wanting out because of cultural issues, although the wantaway 3 are more entrenched as 1st 22 players the Bombers will largely have to suck it up and take what they are offered IMO, take the bitter pill for the long term benefit of their club.

FWIW if Dodumbo is stubborn and decides to force a trade IMO we will do a deal, with Daniher coming out and nominating us we would have given him some sort of commitment to get him to the club. I can't see us telling Joe/his manager in negotiations- We'd love you at our club but if we have to trade for you it's not worth it.

Again, depends how it's handled really. Do we actually know who approached who first?

Not that it really matters though, because in any event you can 100% have that conversation up front without the angle being taken as we don't think you're worth it if we have to trade for you.

If you're a good communicator you can have an frank honest conversation about where the club lies & how we see a player fitting in to our plans.

I.e. In the event that we did approach Daniher the conversation could've been upfront from the very beginning. Picks 18 & 19 are part of another plan we want to implement at the club. If you still plan on leaving Essendon via the free agency mechanism, do you want to have a look at this offer to join the Lions? If all aspects of what may or may not transpire are covered along the way with discussions then you're not hanging someone out to dry.

Saad himself said as much the other week, he's been talking with Carlton about all possible results that may eventuate. We'd be doing the same i'm sure.