Most overated Player?

[Grimreepah]

There are a lot of variables that happen in games of football. These variables are present in either winning or losing. In your case, there are many reasons why teams lose on the day. It's not just because of one single player.

Brown's worth to your team is not questionable, it never was. But for you to say that he was the only reason why you lost those games is rubbish.

You lost those games not just because of Brown's absence, you lost them for a variety of reasons. You either might've lost them because of stupid tactics, you may have lost them because the players on the day didn't perform to standards, you may have lost them because the oppositon just simply played better, you may have lost them because of poor shots on goal, you may have lost them because of a lack of condfidence, etc. Games are lost because of either one, two, or a combo of these variables.

This also goes with winning games too. You can't pin them down all on one player. Because at least some of these factors are always present, in every game. Brown is just one of those factors, but not the only one.

Do you get it yet?

We are on a different page. I give up. You could apply that logic to pretty much any stat in the AFL.

 

[Thrawn]

We are on a different page. I give up. You could apply that logic to pretty much any stat in AFL.

You say: Brown's the only reason why we lost those games.

I say: Not true, Brown's one of the reasons, but not the only one why you lost those games.

What ever. It's not my fault you fail to grasp this simple, yet true, logic. Where stats like yours is concerned, where it involves the fate of matches and what the reasons are for them, the logic is sound. Certainly not "flawed".

 

[Grimreepah]

You say: Brown's the only reason why we lost those games.

I say: Not true, Brown's one of the reasons, but not the only one why you lost those games.

What ever. It's not my fault you fail to grasp this simple, yet true, logic. Where stats like yours is concerned, where it involves the fate of matches and what the reasons are for them, the logic is sound. Certainly not "flawed".

No. I am making a comparison. I said all extraneous factors are likely to be fairly equal whether Brown is playing or not.

If the rate of cancer for non-smokers is 5%, and the rate of cancer for smokers is 30%, then there may be different reasons (ie. non-smoking related) as to why a smoker gets cancer, but on average there is a 25% increase, and it is safe to attribute that 25% to being a smoker.

Same with Brown. Of course there are different influences that affect the course of the match, but on average we win 30% more games with Brown in the team, and I think that is a fair indication of his influence in the team.

 

[Dippers_Mullet]

Some idiots here just dont understand the concept of a player being 'overrated...' Just because players have achieved something - individual accolades, premierships, etc. - in their careers doesn't mean they're NOT overrated.

Take Chris Judd for example. He is being made out as gods gift to mankind, and whilst he IS the best player in the comp, and a long way into becoming the best player of the last generation, it doesn't mean he is not overrated.

He most certainly IS overrated. With 99% of the football watching population on the Judd bandwagon (including myself), and practically ALL the commentators wetting themselves everytime he goes near the ball whilst yelling at the top of their lungs; as if they're trying to claim him as their own son, is rediculous. The sheer media frenzy that follows Judd wherever he goes, whatever he does is phenominal. He cant do anything without some idiot writing how unbelievably brilliant he is.

Take a look at that article that was written in that AGE football guide thing, saying how Judd has revolutionised the draft and now - solely because of him - EVERY young draftee has now got so much more to live up to. What a crock of bollox. Clearly teams wanting to improve by building a stronger list - through drafting the best talent, is the cause of this 'Judd draft rovolution' bollox.

And whilst he might be brilliant and the best player in the comp (or even this generation), it's been taken far too far.

 

[Chasing the Dream]

Grim, I now see why you stayed away

Mate, talk to you on the Lions Board.

 

[sainter35]

I'd go Riewoldt and Hamill.

Riewoldt goes missing too often when the heats on for my liking. Like where was he in the second half of the round one game v Brisbane at the GABBA a couple of years back? (OK - tongue in cheek o nthat one, but I do think he goes missing when it matters and kicks cheap goals when games are decided)

As for Hamill......I'm sick of seeing him....sick of him turning up in pit lane at the GP, sick of him showing up at almost every high profile social function in Melbourne, when he has not appeared in either of the last two St Kilda finals series and missed more games than he's played. He is not worthy of his profile, he has it because he got himsefl some infancy with his cowardly defection from Carlton and because he's a mate of Warne. Mate, play some quality footy, then get your head seen all round town like some B grade celebrity.

Mate Hamills been injured so that makes him overrated?? ummm.. you even watch footy?

Riewoldts also won games for us ...but I guess when your being selective it doesnt suit to be fair as well.....

 

[Papa G]

We are on a different page. I give up. You could apply that logic to pretty much any stat in the AFL.

In Brisbane's Grand Final years between 2001-04 he did not win one AA at CHF. Now I realise that being named in the All Australian team is not the be all and end all of everything, but for the way he is talked up you'd think he would have jagged at least one or 2 by now. All the other recognised genuine super stars of the comp have multiple AA jumpers. Fact is Tredrea in those years and now Pavlich, in terms of output and performance have eclipsed Brown in performance year in and year out. Yet it seems that everyone puts him on a pedestal above those players when in fact competing head to head they have well and truely outperformed him - If that isn't over rated - I don't know what is.

 

[Chewy]

Fact is Tredrea in those years and now Pavlich, in terms of output and performance have eclipsed Brown in performance year in and year out. Yet it seems that everyone puts him on a pedestal above those players when in fact competing head to head they have well and truely outperformed him - If that isn't over rated - I don't know what is.

All Australian is decided on performances from Round 1 to Round 22.
Occasionally players have been selected, despite missing 7 or more games through injury, but this is usually when there were no other obvious candidates for their position.

J Brown's selection in at least 4 All Australian teams would've been a formality had he not been injured and missed half the season. And that's not talking about would'ves, could'ves or should'ves. What Browny was able to produce in his 12 or 13 games far outstripped anything produced by Pavlich or Tredrea. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

In my opinion, it's a great shame that the All Australian selectors weren't able to acknowledge this, if only to silence the imbeciles that continue to knock him.

 

[Papa G]

All Australian is decided on performances from Round 1 to Round 22.
Occasionally players have been selected, despite missing 7 or more games through injury, but this is usually when there were no other obvious candidates for their position.

J Brown's selection in at least 4 All Australian teams would've been a formality had he not been injured and missed half the season. And that's not talking about would'ves, could'ves or should'ves. What Browny was able to produce in his 12 or 13 games far outstripped anything produced by Pavlich or Tredrea. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

In my opinion, it's a great shame that the All Australian selectors weren't able to acknowledge this, if only to silence the imbeciles that continue to knock him.

Yes it is. Fact is he rarely plays a full season and thus has consistently not fufilled his potential. Maybe he's only capable of playing good football for half a season, that is all his out put over the last 5 or 6 years has indicated.

I am not knocking the guy and think he's a great player, just pointing out the reasons why he is over rated for what he has individually achieved against his peers playing in the same position on the ground.

 

[hulld]

dale thomas - just gets the easy kicks and he isn't damaging when he gets the ball. big deal if he takes a couple of speccies. that doesn't make him a good player.

cameron ling - see above, just without the speccies

mark jamar - can't kick and is one of the dopiest blokes going around

 

[Thrawn]

J Brown's selection in at least 4 All Australian teams would've been a formality had he not been injured and missed half the season.

Really?

And what seasons would they have been? I'll give you last year, but apart from that, the previous years his form was way too inconsistent. He'd own a few games here and there then go missing in patches. Certainly in comparision to Tredrea, Riewoldt and Pavlich. Throw in Hall there too.

Through 2001 to 2004 he played the majority of games, his on-field output and goal kicking in particular in those years say otherwise. To suggest that he would have at least 4 AAs if he'd not been injured seems to stretch it. One, yes, two, maybe - but four? Where's the reason?

But I'm willing to see your argument here - besides 2006, if he were injury free, what years would he have been selected in the AA team? Or at least had a dominant year to rival the other forwards? After all, it's a formality according to you.

 

[Danny Dickfos]

dale thomas - just gets the easy kicks and he isn't damaging when he gets the ball. big deal if he takes a couple of speccies. that doesn't make him a good player.

cameron ling - see above, just without the speccies

mark jamar - can't kick and is one of the dopiest blokes going around

You can not b serious hulld? Dale Thomas has been in the AFL for one season and is one of the most exciting young players going around. As for Mark Jamar, who the hell rates him? He doesnt warrant discussion. You are doing a fine job of representing the bombers army.

 

[Danny Dickfos]

One guy who is consistently ordinary, but always gets a game is Michael O'Loughlin. Since 2000, O'Loughlin has averaged 13 disposals a match, which is a pretty ordinary return for someone who generally gets a lot of game time when he isnt injured.

 

[Grimreepah]

Fact is Tredrea in those years and now Pavlich, in terms of output and performance have eclipsed Brown in performance year in and year out.

That is opinion, not fact.

 

[Thrawn]

That is opinion, not fact.

It is fact.

Just take a look at their records over that time period.

 

[Grimreepah]

It is fact.

Please don't be silly. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't make it out to be anything more than that.

 

[Useful_Idiot]

I can only presume, from going through the last 23 pages of this thread, that not many of u guys rate the great anthony rocca as only a handful of people have included him in their posts. Meaning most dont even rate him to include him in a 'most overrated list' cause by crikey he is the biggest waste of sperm in many years of afl. Surely has to be on his last legs at the black and whites. That is unless he gets to line up on zac dawson every week. Has the size about him to dominate games but lacks every other department needed to even be average in the league. HIGHLY OVERRATED!

 

[Thrawn]

Please don't be silly. You are entitled to your opinion, but don't make it out to be anything more than that.

It's all there.

But that's ok, you can keep your head in the sand if you want to.

 

[no orange peeler]

Mate Hamills been injured so that makes him overrated?? ummm.. you even watch footy?

Riewoldts also won games for us ...but I guess when your being selective it doesnt suit to be fair as well.....

i'm with you Hamill isn't over rated if any one has watched a live St Kilda game and see the amount of work he does off the ball chasing tackling throws his body in no wonder the guy gets injured. It's no coincidence that the saints are a much better side when he plays.

 

[Danny Dickfos]

I can only presume, from going through the last 23 pages of this thread, that not many of u guys rate the great anthony rocca as only a handful of people have included him in their posts. Meaning most dont even rate him to include him in a 'most overrated list' cause by crikey he is the biggest waste of sperm in many years of afl. Surely has to be on his last legs at the black and whites. That is unless he gets to line up on zac dawson every week. Has the size about him to dominate games but lacks every other department needed to even be average in the league. HIGHLY OVERRATED!

Speaking of Zac Dawson, has a coach ever over-rated a player as much as Clarkson rates this whippet? Why is he playing AFL?

 

[Grimreepah]

It's all there.

But that's ok, you can keep your head in the sand if you want to.

Look, you think certain players are better, I think others are better. It's just an opinion. There's no need to get snitchy.

 

[dthom]

Are you reading the crap you are drippling? Browny is the best CHF in the league right now. He dealt with his argo attitude in '05 and injury is the only thing holding him back. At the end of the round 10 Brownlow voting he was leading the votes! Pretty good for some who only played 10 Games.

Ummm statistics would suggest that Matthew Pavlich is the best CHF in the competition and has been for the last two seasons. In fact it has gotten to the ridiculous point where opposing teams always play two or more players on him. I agree that Jonathan Brown is talented but in my mind he does not play games consistently enough to even be considered an elite AFL player. The true elites play game after game and succeed consistently for example; Judd, Pavlich etc.

 

[Pendlebury_#10]

Goodes

 

[Kochie 16]

Goodes

Definatley

 

[Kochie 16]

I rekon Woewodin Was heavily overated.




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