Opinion Your top 5 overated players

[KermitJagger]

It's a tough one, I think most players that are rated highly are rated highly for a reason.

In no particular order:

Nick Larkey: I'll probably cop it for this but outside of goals kicked I don't think he's a very good forward. Doesn't take many big marks, doesn't set up many, gets a lot of cheap over the back goals which have inflated his reputation a bit. I reckon as North get better and get more targets he'll drop off in a big way.
Tim Taranto: Accumulator but genuinely one of the worst ball users I've ever seen. Can kick a goal himself but unlike other goal kicking mids like Dusty, Petracca he just doesn't seem to set up as many.
Tom Stewart: Definitely a great player but he isn't 5x AA great. I feel he's been given the benefit of the doubt for less deserving seasons, and seasons where he's missed a lot of games, over some better performed players.
Andrew Brayshaw: He's another player who is definitely great but is not Freo's best player. Doesn't hold a candle to Serong imo. Isn't a great clearance, contested or ground ball player. Line ball overrated.
Charlie Cameron: A modern great small forward, but just doesn't try hard enough. Gives up on contests, chases, drops his head when things are going bad. He has all the athletic talents to be the best small forward of all time but the difference between him and Cyril or Betts is that both those guys dug deep. Again, line ball overrated.

 

[Pistol Night]

It's a tough one, I think most players that are rated highly are rated highly for a reason.

In no particular order:

Nick Larkey: I'll probably cop it for this but outside of goals kicked I don't think he's a very good forward. Doesn't take many big marks, doesn't set up many, gets a lot of cheap over the back goals which have inflated his reputation a bit. I reckon as North get better and get more targets he'll drop off in a big way.
Tim Taranto: Accumulator but genuinely one of the worst ball users I've ever seen. Can kick a goal himself but unlike other goal kicking mids like Dusty, Petracca he just doesn't seem to set up as many.
Tom Stewart: Definitely a great player but he isn't 5x AA great. I feel he's been given the benefit of the doubt for less deserving seasons, and seasons where he's missed a lot of games, over some better performed players.
Andrew Brayshaw: He's another player who is definitely great but is not Freo's best player. Doesn't hold a candle to Serong imo. Isn't a great clearance, contested or ground ball player. Line ball overrated.
Charlie Cameron: A modern great small forward, but just doesn't try hard enough. Gives up on contests, chases, drops his head when things are going bad. He has all the athletic talents to be the best small forward of all time but the difference between him and Cyril or Betts is that both those guys dug deep. Again, line ball overrated.

Hopefully Norths list manager sees the things you do because well have Larkey in a heartbeat

 

[BigFrizz36]

Wilkie has been an elite defender for three or four seasons before Lyon arrived.

2019 7th in Stkilda best and fairest (4years before Ross)
2020 7th in Stkilda best and fairest
(3 years before Ross)
2021 4th in Stkilda best and fairest
(2 years before Ross)
2022 2nd in Stkilda best and fairest
(1 year before Ross)

You surely can't suggest that coming 7th and 4th in a mediocre teams best and fairest makes you an elite defender?

 

[ChristianBoy]

2019 7th in Stkilda best and fairest (4years before Ross)
2020 7th in Stkilda best and fairest
(3 years before Ross)
2021 4th in Stkilda best and fairest
(2 years before Ross)
2022 2nd in Stkilda best and fairest
(1 year before Ross)

You surely can't suggest that coming 7th and 4th in a mediocre teams best and fairest makes you an elite defender?

Do you know how StKilda do their voting and what the format is?

 

[KermitJagger]

Hopefully Norths list manager sees the things you do because well have Larkey in a heartbeat

It's not a popular opinion I'm sure but he's never struck me as an out and out gun, just like Brown never did before him.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Do you know how StKilda do their voting and one the format is?

I think that it's designed to try and find their best and fairest player each year. Maybe he had some injuries on those years?

 

[ChristianBoy]

I think that it's designed to try and find their best and fairest player each year. Maybe he had some injuries on those years?

Even so he's been in the best and is an elite one on one defender. Great user as well.

Finishing 7th considering is hardly dissapointing.

 

[sydney_gws]

Hate to say it but Heeney would be in contention to be on the list. His best is as good as anyone in the competition and he can be a match winner for the Swans but he goes missing far too much and we only see him at his best every so often, sometimes he goes 2 or 3 matches without being sighted before putting in a blinder.

Goal kicking accuracy was not good last year.

 

[bradfisher14]

It's a tough one, I think most players that are rated highly are rated highly for a reason.

In no particular order:

Nick Larkey: I'll probably cop it for this but outside of goals kicked I don't think he's a very good forward. Doesn't take many big marks, doesn't set up many, gets a lot of cheap over the back goals which have inflated his reputation a bit. I reckon as North get better and get more targets he'll drop off in a big way.
Tim Taranto: Accumulator but genuinely one of the worst ball users I've ever seen. Can kick a goal himself but unlike other goal kicking mids like Dusty, Petracca he just doesn't seem to set up as many.
Tom Stewart: Definitely a great player but he isn't 5x AA great. I feel he's been given the benefit of the doubt for less deserving seasons, and seasons where he's missed a lot of games, over some better performed players.
Andrew Brayshaw: He's another player who is definitely great but is not Freo's best player. Doesn't hold a candle to Serong imo. Isn't a great clearance, contested or ground ball player. Line ball overrated.
Charlie Cameron: A modern great small forward, but just doesn't try hard enough. Gives up on contests, chases, drops his head when things are going bad. He has all the athletic talents to be the best small forward of all time but the difference between him and Cyril or Betts is that both those guys dug deep. Again, line ball overrated.

Agree on Larkey.

 

[adammania9]

1. Tom Stewart
I just think he plays an accumulator type role in defence which makes him look a bit better than what he actually is. Feel like a lot of his disposals are just side-ways chips and I don't see him as a particularly good defender.

2. Darcy Moore
I think if Darcy Moore played as a third tall in the Collingwood defence he could be one of the best players in the league but in his current role as a number 1/2 key defender he is overrated. He is treated as one of the best key defenders in the league and I don't even think he is the best key defender on his own team. Gets lost far too many times for my liking and is prone to having a bag kicked on him.

3. Callum Wilkie
Cal Wilkie is a good defender but put simply he has benefited from the Ross Lyon "flooding the defence" system - him making AA this year over the likes of Taylor, Andrews, May and Weitering was crazy to me when as an individual defender I would take all four comfortably over him.

4. Darcy Parish
I just see him as an accumulator and not at all damaging with the ball - somehow has a bigger reputation than Zac Merrett who for me (at this point in their respective careers) is a far better player.

5. Mason Cox
Just feel his output hasn't come close to this reputation he has in the media. Don't think he uses his height and body well enough when up forward and think he is just an okay ruck.

This one just doesn’t really make sense, man.

Tom Stewart is overrated because he plays the loose accumulating defender role, but if Darcy Moore did the same he would be one of the best players in the league?

Also are you suggesting Nathan Murphy us a better player than Darcy Moore?

 

[carlton_99]

This one just doesn’t really make sense, man.

Tom Stewart is overrated because he plays the loose accumulating defender role, but if Darcy Moore did the same he would be one of the best players in the league?

Also are you suggesting Nathan Murphy us a better player than Darcy Moore?

On Stewart/Moore what I meant was that if Moore played that Stewart type role (which I think suits him far more than his current role) he would be the best in the comp at it (and therefore amongst the top 15-20 players in the comp). Stewart for me does not do 50% of what Moore would in that role and yet is treated by the media as a top 15-20 player in the comp...

And I do think Murphy is a better key defender than Moore. Moore however is obviously the better overall player due to his versatility to play other roles

 

[adammania9]

On Stewart/Moore what I meant was that if Moore played that Stewart type role (which I think suits him far more than his current role) he would be the best in the comp at it (and therefore amongst the top 15-20 players in the comp). Stewart for me does not do 50% of what Moore would in that role and yet is treated by the media as a top 15-20 player in the comp...

And I do think Murphy is a better key defender than Moore. Moore however is obviously the better overall player due to his versatility to play other roles

Defender is a pretty broad term and is really just a modernised term for what used to be called “backman”. There’s more to being a gun defender/backman than just purely defending one on one. Generating quick drive out of the back 50 is as important, and the likes of Moore and Stewart do it better than most. They’re terrific readers of the play ahead of time which allows them to be in the top echelon of intercept markers every year. Sure, Stewart may not be the toughest in a one on one and Moore might find himself too far from his man following a turnover, but it’s the way they play because it’s to their strengths. Moore and Stewart would not be better footballers if they were more focused on one-on-one defending.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Tom Mitchell was the literally the catalyst in launching Collingwood's midfield into one that could win a premiership.

Sounds like you owe Geelong a solid at the trade table after that one then

 

[PhatBoy]

On Stewart/Moore what I meant was that if Moore played that Stewart type role (which I think suits him far more than his current role) he would be the best in the comp at it (and therefore amongst the top 15-20 players in the comp). Stewart for me does not do 50% of what Moore would in that role and yet is treated by the media as a top 15-20 player in the comp...

And I do think Murphy is a better key defender than Moore. Moore however is obviously the better overall player due to his versatility to play other roles

I’m not going to argue with your opinion as it’s yours and you’re entitled to it but whatever else the players do/dont do, one thing the selectors love and that Stewart builds his game around is his skill level. His accuracy by foot, and not just when chipping it around, is superb and the amount of times he hits a teammate 45-50m away with a kick that really a defender probably shouldn’t be attempting is one of the things that makes him a bit better than most of his contemporaries.
The rest of your points I can see some merit in

 

[carlton_99]

I’m not going to argue with your opinion as it’s yours and you’re entitled to it but whatever else the players do/dont do, one thing the selectors love and that Stewart builds his game around is his skill level. His accuracy by foot, and not just when chipping it around, is superb and the amount of times he hits a teammate 45-50m away with a kick that really a defender probably shouldn’t be attempting is one of the things that makes him a bit better than most of his contemporaries.
The rest of your points I can see some merit in

Ill definitely try to watch him more carefully in 24'

 

[Pistol Night]

Sounds like you owe Geelong a solid at the trade table after that one then

We’ve got no more homesick refugees

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

This one just doesn’t really make sense, man.

Tom Stewart is overrated because he plays the loose accumulating defender role, but if Darcy Moore did the same he would be one of the best players in the league?

Also are you suggesting Nathan Murphy us a better player than Darcy Moore?

If Stewart is a deserved 5 times All Australian then I'm Dua Lupa.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

2019 7th in Stkilda best and fairest (4years before Ross)
2020 7th in Stkilda best and fairest
(3 years before Ross)
2021 4th in Stkilda best and fairest
(2 years before Ross)
2022 2nd in Stkilda best and fairest
(1 year before Ross)

You surely can't suggest that coming 7th and 4th in a mediocre teams best and fairest makes you an elite defender?

Backmen don't usually pole overly well in the awards or bnf's.
You know 2019 was his first year don't you?
To go 7, 7, 4, 2 in B&f in your first 4 years as a backman at a club is pretty good going actually.
The fact he made the AA team last year is fairly good evidence that he is an elite defender I would have thought.

 

[Ricmel]

Agree to an extent with the Wilkie claim. Good player but not AA.

He is AA. I don't think anyone rates Wilkie as one of the best defenders of the 2000s. Most people would say he probably sits in the top 10 defenders today. He probably does and so is not by definition over rated. You don't make AA if you are not a pretty good player.

Really, the only way players are seriously over rated is generally by there own supporters (yes, I get the irony). If you read some of the ridiculous threads in BF on Dusty you could argue he is over rated.

Because so many people have an intense interest in footy, the broad community mostly gets it right. It is the Wikipedia model.

 

[bradfisher14]

If Stewart is a deserved 5 times All Australian then I'm Dua Lupa.

Any plans Friday night?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Any plans Friday night?

Lol. No thanks

 

[Milanista28]

Sam Draper

He's talked up in media as if it's a lay-down misere that he'll dominate the comp once fully fit as if he was previously or was so talented that he couldn't not. I swear he's done nothing. At least with most flashy players that aren't actually any good, you have a highlights reel to point at.

Now the contentious one is out of the way, some we can all agree on.

Reid
Sheezel
Butters
Naicos

Not unreasonable that take on Draper imo

 

[BigFrizz36]

Backmen don't usually pole overly well in the awards or bnf's.
You know 2019 was his first year don't you?
To go 7, 7, 4, 2 in B&f in your first 4 years as a backman at a club is pretty good going actually.
The fact he made the AA team last year is fairly good evidence that he is an elite defender I would have thought.

Brad Sheppard was in the AA team as a defender in 2020. Your rationale suggests that he was/is an elite defender.
I would suggest that being selected in the AA team means that you have had at least one good year and caught the eye of a fairly dubious selection panel. I would also suggest that it doesn't automatically make you an elite footballer.

 

[chaddy22]

Brad Sheppard was in the AA team as a defender in 2020. Your rationale suggests that he was/is an elite defender.
I would suggest that being selected in the AA team means that you have had at least one good year and caught the eye of a fairly dubious selection panel. I would also suggest that it doesn't automatically make you an elite footballer.

Using Brad Shepherd is a poor example. Many commentators thought he was under rated.
The AA team is a compromised idea.Medium backs.medium forwards and wingmen have to have more than a elite year to be AA.
We know that the AA selectors love to put as many KPD instead of a Medium/small defender.
They love to put as many KPF instead of medium forward/small forward and they love to fill the team with as many midfielders instead of a true wing man.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Using Brad Shepherd is a poor example. Many commentators thought he was under rated.
The AA team is a compromised idea.Medium backs.medium forwards and wingmen have to have more than a elite year to be AA.
We know that the AA selectors love to put as many KPD instead of a Medium/small defender.
They love to put as many KPF instead of medium forward/small forward and they love to fill the team with as many midfielders instead of a true wing man.

So your argument is that Wilkie is elite because he made AA but the AA system is flawed snd compromised and by definition you don't have to be elite to make it?