Most overrated player in the AFL currently?

[HairyO]

Hayden Young , not really as a player but his kicking is always mentioned as elite and while it’s nice and long and flat it just doesn’t go to our players enough which is the point of it all isn’t it ?

It’s almost like the Pendles basketball thing in that it’s a unwritten rule or something that if you mention youngy you have to mention his elite kicking

At least Pendles actually played basketball


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He would be brilliant in our team if you reckon he's overrated.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Send him our way then pls.

Does Bevo need a new sub candidate?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Jai Newcombe is overrated.

Wtf has happened to him this season?? Something going on not made public?

 

[little_ripper]

Darcy Parish

3

Darcy Parish

Age

27

Ht

180cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

3star

CL

3.1

4star

D

22.2

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

14.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

.

 

[Hoops]

Danger didn’t do anything near Bontempelli level for his first 5 seasons. I watch cats and dogs closely. As a bulldog fan this is the first time I can remember us have the best player in the game, and he’s been this good from the word go. His two Grand Finals were excellent. Selwood’s had a better career but not Danger.

Bontempelli is a complete player in the Buckley mould (I rate Bontempelli slightly higher), both showed enormous potential from a young age and are elite or close to it at every aspect of the game. I do believe that when Danger goes beast mode like we saw for the majority of 2016 and 2017 he is at another level on impact in games.

 

[Mr Meow]

Danger didn’t do anything near Bontempelli level for his first 5 seasons. I watch cats and dogs closely. As a bulldog fan this is the first time I can remember us have the best player in the game, and he’s been this good from the word go. His two Grand Finals were excellent. Selwood’s had a better career but not Danger.

I think their career contributions are going to come out very even. Only a freakish Martin season stopped Dangerfield picking up back to back Brownlow's. Their number of elite seasons will come out about the same.

I think Dangerfield's reputation suffered from being part of so many poor finals teams (expecting him to carry them like Bulldogs so at times with Bont) but outside of a couple of games against Richmond, his finals record has been strong.

Sidenote is that peak Dangerfield and Bontempelli in the same side would've been something else. Selwood wasn't quite polished enough, or was a little past his peak, to be Dangerfield's perfect partner in crime. And Dangerfield is still more damaging with ball in hand than Bontempelli's midfield team mates over the years.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Ringa Rozee until he stops flopping like a land based fish.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Kozzie (Rich)

I’m an idiot, he actually is shit.

 

[NeutralFan]

Good exercise

(Ade) Fogarty - He's good when he actually has it but he can't find the bloody ball
(Bri) Berry - Too many dumb decisions
(Car) McGovern - Plays easiest role intercepting
(Col) Moore - Decision making and disposal is questionable
(Ess) Draper - Throws weight around but what else?
(Fre) Hughes - I don't think he's rated by fans but he's close to the Shaun Atley

18

Shaun Atley

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.2

4star

MG

273.1

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.0

3star

MG

246.4

4star

D

13.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

7.4

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

3.0

5star

category of "How did he play this many games?"
(Gee) Bruhn & De Koning - Stiff but these two don't strike to me as high rise up and comers as much as others think
(GC) Ballard - It's not his primary job but I hate key defenders that make you close your eyes when they dispose of it
(GWS) O'Halloran - Not really rated that high but decision making and disposal bad. GWS hard team to find someone
(Haw) Lewis - Hard cause best defender on him, don't understand the talk of him being awesome however
(Mel) Sparrow - Thought he'd elevate for Brayshaw but is still just average in my eye
(NM) Zurhaar - Has moments, don't rate him highly
(PA) Aliir - See McGovern, easiest role
(Ric) Broad & Koschitzke - Broad is just a role player imo. Kosi based on pick 43(?) he was traded for. Should provide a bit more
(Stk) Bonner - Personal pet hate player so far this season. Hope people don't get sucked in with kick and meters gained stats
(Syd) Rowbottom - This guy shouldn't be in convos with Gulden, Heeney, Warner
(WC) Hough - Contentious and still young. Despite good defensive efforts, makes god awful decisions
(WB) English - Ruckmen are overrated as a whole. Gawn is the only one worth big money

 

[Mr Meow]

Kozzie (Rich)

I’m an idiot, he actually is s**t.

Respect for fessing up, but Meteoric Rise says par for Kozzy expectations is a Cameron Mooney type career. He has many years left - he's just shy of 24 years old. Don't give up yet.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Respect for fessing up, but Meteoric Rise says par for Kozzy expectations is a Cameron Mooney type career. He has many years left - he's just shy of 24 years old. Don't give up yet.

You said Richmond would be deliriously happy if Koschitzke reaches Cam Mooney's level. I said I don't think anyone is going to be over the moon with a player reaching Cam Mooney's level, he was average at his very best.

I made no prediction about how good Koschitzke was likely to be.

But you are desperate for gotcha material so carry on. I can afford to throw you a bone or two along the way to stop you from giving up.

 

[Mr Meow]

You said Richmond would be deliriously happy if Koschitzke reaches Cam Mooney's level. I said I don't think anyone is going to be over the moon with a player reaching Cam Mooney's level, he was average at his very best.

I made no prediction about how good Koschitzke was likely to be.

But you are desperate for gotcha material so carry on.

I said Richmond would be delighted if Kozzy came in and performed as Cameron Mooney did upon his permanent move to the forward line in 2007. You said that level of output was about expectation (since it wasn't anything special) and it would not in fact be anything of note.

Kozzy so far in 2024 averages:

6.7 disposals
2 contested marks (actually impressive, this one)
1.3 inside 50s
1.0 tackles
0.3 goals
0.0 goal assists
0.0 clearances (he is rotating through ruck as evidenced by hit outs)

Excuse generator 3000: "But he's in a TERRIBLE side! It's not his fault"

 

[Kobe Gryant]

You said Richmond would be deliriously happy if Koschitzke reaches Cam Mooney's level. I said I don't think anyone is going to be over the moon with a player reaching Cam Mooney's level, he was average at his very best.

I made no prediction about how good Koschitzke was likely to be.

But you are desperate for gotcha material so carry on.

Like him or not, Cam Mooney was an All Australian.

I'd be prepared to bet a small fortune that Kosi will never be reaching that level. You do you though.

 

[Mr Meow]

Like him or not, Cam Mooney was an All Australian.

I'd be prepared to bet a small fortune that Kosi will never be reaching that level. You do you though.

Ask 100 Richmond supporters right now if they'd be delighted if Kozzy etched out a Cam Mooney type career and 99 would say absolutely. MR is dying on the hill that this was the very lowest bar for him to clear, and if it appears he will not get close to clearing it, then it does not matter anyway. He was in no universe going to be delighted unless Kozzy was the next Buddy Franklin.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Ask 100 Richmond supporters right now if they'd be delighted if Kozzy etched out a Cam Mooney type career and 99 would say absolutely. MR is dying on the hill that this was the very lowest bar for him to clear, and if it appears he will not get close to clearing it, then it does not matter anyway. He was in no universe going to be delighted unless Kozzy was the next Buddy Franklin.

Cam Mooney was just an average player you dote. Players aren't then next X or turn into something equivalent of player Y, they just have to fit in with a team and fulfil their role. A player like Atkins for the Cats is probably a great example. Probably a more valuable player than Mooney in reality, but a lot of people will think Mooney was the better player due to 50+ goal seasons or AA selections or whatever. Atkins will never win that acclaim but if was building a team I would rather have Atkins playing his role than Mooney playing his.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I said Richmond would be delighted if Kozzy came in and performed as Cameron Mooney did upon his permanent move to the forward line in 2007. You said that level of output was about expectation (since it wasn't anything special) and it would not in fact be anything of note.

Kozzy so far in 2024 averages:

6.7 disposals
2 contested marks (actually impressive, this one)
1.3 inside 50s
1.0 tackles
0.3 goals
0.0 goal assists
0.0 clearances (he is rotating through ruck as evidenced by hit outs)

Excuse generator 3000: "But he's in a TERRIBLE side! It's not his fault"

Lol, Koschitzke is going poorly at this point. Why would you possibly think I would say otherwise? He was never the great hope for us, he was always going to be the 3rd choice key forward.

What I will say is he has definitely been up against it. He is playing a new role, or the same role but in a different way due to a different system. He has malfunction all around him with 90% of the forward lines he has played in being totally new to their roles in the the team, so he is probably not as bad as his stats suggest. But he looks pretty limited. This is a guy on like $250-300k and traded for pick 49.

The only positives are he is doing ok in certain ways when moved into the ruck. His stats are a bit unusual in that he is winning 64% of hitouts and also winning 71% of his possessions contested, =5th highest in the competition. So for some reason he is not getting any easy ball. Part of this at least will be down to a lack of connection with his team-mates. Obviously this should resolve itself over time. Whether that will be enough to make Koschitzke any sort of AFL footballer, who knows. If we had any viable alternative whatsoever he would be currently learning our system at VFL level. But in case you haven't noticed, our only two AFL level key forwards are injured, and probably the two most likely to relieve them in a pinch, Bauer and Gibcus...are injured. And this my friend is the whole reason Richmond recruited Jacob Koschitzke. He was the only available person worth giving a crack at it.

 

[Mr Meow]

Lol, Koschitzke is going poorly at this point. Why would you possibly think I would say otherwise? He was never the great hope for us, he was always going to be the 3rd choice key forward.

What I will say is he has definitely been up against it. He is playing a new role, or the same role but in a different way due to a different system. He has malfunction all around him with 90% of the forward lines he has played in being totally new to their roles in the the team, so he is probably not as bad as his stats suggest. But he looks pretty limited. This is a guy on like $250-300k and traded for pick 49.

The only positives are he is doing ok in certain ways when moved into the ruck. His stats are a bit unusual in that he is winning 64% of hitouts and also winning 71% of his possessions contested, =5th highest in the competition. So for some reason he is not getting any easy ball. Part of this at least will be down to a lack of connection with his team-mates. Obviously this should resolve itself over time. Whether that will be enough to make Koschitzke any sort of AFL footballer, who knows. If we had any viable alternative whatsoever he would be currently learning our system at VFL level. But in case you haven't noticed, our only two AFL level key forwards are injured, and probably the two most likely to relieve them in a pinch, Bauer and Gibcus...are injured. And this my friend is the whole reason Richmond recruited Jacob Koschitzke. He was the only available person worth giving a crack at it.

Well the cost is why I said you'd be happy if he went on a Mooney 2007-2010 run (accepting that a poor side will mean lower numbers) or had a Mooney type career. You seem to think I was saying Mooney was Wayne Carey.

Even Chol type impact would do. Outside of one stinker he's bobbed up and done alright.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Well the cost is why I said you'd be happy if he went on a Mooney 2007-2010 run (accepting that a poor side will mean lower numbers) or had a Mooney type career. You seem to think I was saying Mooney was Wayne Carey.

Even Chol type impact would do. Outside of one stinker he's bobbed up and done alright.

Richmond haven't spent any ammunition getting Koschitzke.

Coleman-Jones went due to more opportunities and better money at the time.

Chol for exactly the same reason.

Players like that are only good to have for a contending team if they are on fairly low salaries. Richmond have since taken a couple of shies at the stumps with Bradtke, Lefau, Fawcett and Koschitzke but have spent nothing of consequential value. The reason our key forward stocks has been ruthlessly exposed is that our best key forward, who is as good as any key forward in the game, is going to miss the best part of 2 full seasons with major injuries. And our next best guy, Balta, is now likely to miss around 6 weeks total. And Gibcus is stuffed for a year+ and Bauer has not been seen. But you can't pay the likes of Coleman-Jones and Chol $500k per year just in case that happens. If Richmond had done that then they would not be able to do what they are probably about to do....

Richmond will have cap money and now looks like having a lot of draft capital to try to locate some class key position players and midfielders either in the draft or in trades or free agents.

 

[Mr Meow]

Richmond haven't spent any ammunition getting Koschitzke.

Coleman-Jones went due to more opportunities and better money at the time.

Chol for exactly the same reason.

Players like that are only good to have for a contending team if they are on fairly low salaries. Richmond have since taken a couple of shies at the stumps with Bradtke, Lefau, Fawcett and Koschitzke but have spent nothing of consequential value. The reason our key forward stocks has been ruthlessly exposed is that our best key forward, who is as good as any key forward in the game, is going to miss the best part of 2 full seasons with major injuries. And our next best guy, Balta, is now likely to miss around 6 weeks total. And Gibcus is stuffed for a year+ and Bauer has not been seen. But you can't pay the likes of Coleman-Jones and Chol $500k per year just in case that happens. If Richmond had done that then they would not be able to do what they are probably about to do....

Richmond will have cap money and now looks like having a lot of draft capital to try to locate some class key position players and midfielders either in the draft or in trades or free agents.

It scares me when you speak sensibly like this.

But yes I've never said the Kozzy pick up was a disastrous decision. More not to expect much at all and if he DID end up at Mooney levels (whether you rate any part of his career or not, he was a good contributor for the Cats) then that would be a big win for the cost.

McStay gave the Pies less last year than Mooney did in his better 6 seasons or so for us, but he still made a difference. Geelong and Richmond will probably have to live with those types for a while once they have no gun KPFs left.

 

[Daka]

Kozzie (Rich)

I’m an idiot, he actually is s**t.

I knew Kosi was not going to be a star, I said to everyone on Richmond's thread at the time we got him, don't expect him to be as good as JR.
but I must say he is a lot worse than I expected. I thought kicking would be his biggest issue but it turns out marking the ball is.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Good exercise

(Ade) Fogarty - He's good when he actually has it but he can't find the bloody ball
(Bri) Berry - Too many dumb decisions
(Car) McGovern - Plays easiest role intercepting
(Col) Moore - Decision making and disposal is questionable
(Ess) Draper - Throws weight around but what else?
(Fre) Hughes - I don't think he's rated by fans but he's close to the Shaun Atley category of "How did he play this many games?"
(Gee) Bruhn & De Koning - Stiff but these two don't strike to me as high rise up and comers as much as others think
(GC) Ballard - It's not his primary job but I hate key defenders that make you close your eyes when they dispose of it
(GWS) O'Halloran - Not really rated that high but decision making and disposal bad. GWS hard team to find someone
(Haw) Lewis - Hard cause best defender on him, don't understand the talk of him being awesome however
(Mel) Sparrow - Thought he'd elevate for Brayshaw but is still just average in my eye
(NM) Zurhaar - Has moments, don't rate him highly
(PA) Aliir - See McGovern, easiest role
(Ric) Broad & Koschitzke - Broad is just a role player imo. Kosi based on pick 43(?) he was traded for. Should provide a bit more
(Stk) Bonner - Personal pet hate player so far this season. Hope people don't get sucked in with kick and meters gained stats
(Syd) Rowbottom - This guy shouldn't be in convos with Gulden, Heeney, Warner
(WC) Hough - Contentious and still young. Despite good defensive efforts, makes god awful decisions
(WB) English - Ruckmen are overrated as a whole. Gawn is the only one worth big money

Actually a really good list...save for De Koning. You can see how badly Geelong suffered when he went down early last year. Now that he is back up and running their backline system looks unreal again. The kid is a gun.

 

[FootyLad0]

Actually a really good list...save for De Koning. You can see how badly Geelong suffered when he went down early last year. Now that he is back up and running their backline system looks unreal again. The kid is a gun.

Spot on, he picked Bruhn and SDK? Geeez very stiff for two kids already playing key roles.

If i had to say someone who is overrated for us it would be Zac 2E.

He's been a great servant over the years but he's clearly lost a step and he's lucky to retain a spot every week.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I knew Kosi was not going to be a star, I said to everyone on Richmond's thread at the time we got him, don't expect him to be as good as JR.
but I must say he is a lot worse than I expected. I thought kicking would be his biggest issue but it turns out marking the ball is.

I legit thought he could at least compete but he can’t even do that. Looks like Tarzan but gets blown over like a leaf. Frustrating.

At least we got him for a packet of chips, but tbf he was meant to be the 3rd KPF. He cannot be the main man playing like he is.

 

[Vindicater]

From Essendon it is Sam Draper.

Puts it together every now and then but most of time tries the Hollywood stuff too much and hurts us.

 

[StillAtLarge]

Actually a really good list...save for De Koning. You can see how badly Geelong suffered when he went down early last year. Now that he is back up and running their backline system looks unreal again. The kid is a gun.

Broad is far better than merely a role player too. More or less took Rance's spot and won two flags