Murphy to nominate for the draft

[Longy413]

I just think a player should have to nominate as a F/S selection at least 10 weeks before the draft positions are known.

I understand your reasoning on this point, and it is a pretty good one.
To play devils advocate for a second (from the players point of view), 10 weeks before draft positions are known (do you mean end of season or post trade week?) kids are still playing footy. To be asked to make a decision on their future while still trying to concentrate on playing Under 18's footy (and school) is a big ask.

Murphy said pretty early (at least his manager did) that once his season was finished he would take a week off and then make a decision and that is exactly what he has done.

 

[Rawhead]

My point is you said Brisbane had to offer higher contracts to recruit players.
They don't. The vast majority are obtained through the draft (and that is what I meant when I asked where did these players come from) at fixed contracts.



Every club has issues when it comes to retaining players. Victorian clubs have to compete against 9 other clubs in their home state. Players can move clubs without actually moving home. Using Essendon as an example, we have a plethora of players from interstate as well, every player we drafted in the past National draft came from interstate, we too are at risk of the 'go home' issue. Infact 6 of the last 8 first year players we drafted in the National draft have been from interstate. We lost a Brownlow Medalist and an elite wingman because they wanted to go home.



Because it contradicts your point. You say Brisbane are have to offer larger contracts to recruit players, but Brisbane players have admitted that they are on less than they could get.

No I didnt.

Are you saying the bulk of players dont come from Victoria?

I said that we offer higher contracts to retain players, and thats the only place salary concessions becomes a point.

THIS YEAR, certain players accepted less than their value to stay with the club, that in no way changes the fact that in our development we had no choice but to offer out of state players higher sums than they might otherwise get, what other incentive would there be to come up here pre premiership haul?

In the specific case of Murphy seeing as getting him in the draft wasnt going to be a possibility, we had to sweeten the deal to persuade him away from Victoria. If he was based in Queensland, DO YOU think we would have had to have made such an offer?


Example: Victorian player gets offer 250,000 a year to play for one of the Victorian clubs + lucrative media work unavailible to Queensland players, Lions offers 250,000. Where would they go?



Makes sense to me.

 

[Longy413]

Are you saying the bulk of players dont come from Victoria?

No I'm saying that every player drafted comes with an associated risk and every club drafts players from interstate.

THIS YEAR, certain players accepted less than their value to stay with the club, that in no way changes the fact that in our development we had no choice but to offer out of state players higher sums than they might otherwise get, what other incentive would there be to come up here pre premiership haul?

Are we talking Brisbane Lions here or "Bad News Bears"?
I think the competition as a whole has evolved from where it was back then.

In the specific case of Murphy seeing as getting him in the draft wasnt going to be a possibility, we had to sweeten the deal to persuade him away from Victoria. If he was based in Queensland, DO YOU think we would have had to have made such an offer?

Murphy (through his father/manager) has said that moving to Brisbane was not the main issue. Moving interstate was not the issue. It was going to a club under the F/S rule that has no emotional attachment, other than a bitter one, to his family. John Murphy believes Brisbane Lions to not represent Fitzroy, the club he played for.

Brisbane offered a big contract to Murphy because they have an opportunity to draft one of the best players in the draft with a 3rd round pick. Not because Murphy would have to move interstate.

Example: Victorian player gets offer 250,000 a year to play for one of the Victorian clubs + lucrative media work unavailible to Queensland players, Lions offers 250,000. Where would they go?

When has that happened?
What players have Brisbane lost in that manner?

 

[Rawhead]

No I'm saying that every player drafted comes with an associated risk and every club drafts players from interstate.



Are we talking Brisbane Lions here or "Bad News Bears"?
I think the competition as a whole has evolved from where it was back then.



Murphy (through his father/manager) has said that moving to Brisbane was not the main issue. Moving interstate was not the issue. It was going to a club under the F/S rule that has no emotional attachment, other than a bitter one, to his family. John Murphy believes Brisbane Lions to not represent Fitzroy, the club he played for.

Brisbane offered a big contract to Murphy because they have an opportunity to draft one of the best players in the draft with a 3rd round pick. Not because Murphy would have to move interstate.



When has that happened?
What players have Brisbane lost in that manner?

Des Hedland for one.

People cant have it both ways, If I say the reason we can retain players is because the AFL realised the difficulties we faced and made some concessions, allowing us to offer more attractive contracts....well then that IS the reason we have been able to retain many who otherwise may have left.

As Football becomes more established in Queensland, the argument for concessions disappears, as it rightfully should.

Certain opposition supports will of course take the line that the are the only reason for our success, but obviously they are idiots and easily ignored, like I said, you would have to have been here in 1997 to realise the uphill battle that the Lions faced.

DO YOU think we would have offered Murphy a contract like that had he been situated in Queensland?

 

[Longy413]

Des Hedland for one.

Des Headland isn't from Victoria, doesn't fit into your majority of players from Victoria arguement, or your media deal arguement.

People cant have it both ways, If I say the reason we can retain players is because the AFL realised the difficulties we faced and made some concessions, allowing us to offer more attractive contracts....well then that IS the reason we have been able to retain many who otherwise may have left.

As Football becomes more established in Queensland, the argument for concessions disappears, as it rightfully should.

I'm not making an anti-concessions arguement, just disagree with some of the things you are saying. Mind you I do think there are better ways to go about the concessions, but that is a whole different thing.

Certain opposition supports will of course take the line that the are the only reason for our success, but obviously they are idiots and easily ignored, like I said, you would have to have been here in 1997 to realise the uphill battle that the Lions faced.

Won't get that arguement for me. Much admiration for Brisbane and what they have done.

DO YOU think we would have offered Murphy a contract like that had he been situated in Queensland?

As I've said. It isn't a City of Melbourne v City of Brisbane relocation thing. It is a Fitzroy FC v Brisbane Lions FC thing. Murphy doesn't have an emotional attachment to the Brisbane Lions and he believes that Fitzroy FC no longer exists. If he lived in Brisbane I'm not sure whether his feelings would change.

 

[JeffDunne]

I think it has more to do with the club and the supporters myself. Regardless the issues aren't relevant in this case as we aren't talking about a club his father played for a more to the point one Marc has any attachment to. It's a bit unique and you can't make rules for every type of unique circumstance that might arise once every 30 years. Any issues this might highlight are not issues with the F/S rule they are issues with club mergers and possibly in the future, relocations.

Qualification issues are a seperate argument. That's not the issue I have here.

The problem I have is with the implimentation of the rule and how it allows a player to negotiate its worth.

 

[jmerino]

Qualification issues are a seperate argument. That's not the issue I have here.

The problem I have is with the implimentation of the rule and how it allows a player to negotiate its worth.

Seems to me that said player, thinks his ******** don't stink.
As we all know Under 18's is a far cry from Senior footy.

 

[the_buzz]

Murphy refuses to go to brisbane because he doesnt support them and his dad never played for them and he wants to stay in Victoria.
Brisbane throws a heap of cash at him in a lucrative 5 year deal.
He says no.

So explain to me how allowing Brisbane concessions to pay more money will help them get players. They already offered more money and the guy said no. In fact this is an argument for scrapping the concessions copmpletely. The extra money is only to keep senior players so you dont have to trade them like other clubs do when the cap gets tight

 

[jmerino]

Murphy refuses to go to brisbane because he doesnt support them and his dad never played for them and he wants to stay in Victoria.
Brisbane throws a heap of cash at him in a lucrative 5 year deal.
He says no.

So explain to me how allowing Brisbane concessions to pay more money will help them get players. They already offered more money and the guy said no. In fact this is an argument for scrapping the concessions copmpletely. The extra money is only to keep senior players so you dont have to trade them like other clubs do when the cap gets tight

He was never offered a 5 year contract.
Funny how when he has rung the club after hours, the media finds out in a nano second where he is going.


I reckon he ain't going to Carlton its to the Pies he is going on that lucrative contract.

 

[PiePower]

I reckon he ain't going to Carlton its to the Pies he is going on that lucrative contract.

We could offer him a 1000 virgin supermodels, doesn't matter, Carlton get first pick, it isn't like the psd where you have to name your price

 

[JeffDunne]

I understand your reasoning on this point, and it is a pretty good one.
To play devils advocate for a second (from the players point of view), 10 weeks before draft positions are known (do you mean end of season or post trade week?) kids are still playing footy. To be asked to make a decision on their future while still trying to concentrate on playing Under 18's footy (and school) is a big ask.

Murphy said pretty early (at least his manager did) that once his season was finished he would take a week off and then make a decision and that is exactly what he has done.

I don't know if 10 weeks is ideal, but I guess you can't expect players to nominate a F/S selection prior to nominating for the draft itself.

The father-son is a good idea if it's used for wht it was intended. This case shows that some will use it as a chance to manipulate the draft process.

Brisbane offering Murphy a long and lucrative contract is essentially an attempt to "buy" a number 1 pick. I'm sure plenty of clubs would pay six figures to upgrade a 3rd rounder to #1 given the choice.

 

[Rawhead]

Murphy refuses to go to brisbane because he doesnt support them and his dad never played for them and he wants to stay in Victoria.
Brisbane throws a heap of cash at him in a lucrative 5 year deal.
He says no.

So explain to me how allowing Brisbane concessions to pay more money will help them get players. They already offered more money and the guy said no. In fact this is an argument for scrapping the concessions copmpletely. The extra money is only to keep senior players so you dont have to trade them like other clubs do when the cap gets tight

How much cash did we throw at him again, can you refresh my memory?

 

[remind]

And it seems Collingwood will benefit from it all, as Carlton say they need talls!

But we are only talking about a 17yo who has no done anything yet.

Talk is this years 17 y.o's are not as good as last year, but then again
look at who came out of last years
Deliedo, Franklin, Roughead, Tambling, Griffin ( bulldogs guy)
Dam good draft!!

They say 16 yo's are better this year, so next year when there won't be the priority picks for winning on 5 games or less, well they won't get them till second round of draft, those teams will benefit, which means same two sides will benefit!!

 

[MarkT]

JD, I understand but I disagree.

 

[Falchoon]

It's only wishful thinking on your part. I am sure, you, like many others, do not want to see Carlton start building a good side.

I'd like to see carlton build a competitive side.

 

[crazy_big_al]

sucked in

 

[the_buzz]

How much cash did we throw at him again, can you refresh my memory?

Does it matter how much.
Your club has leaked all this info to the papers about dinners and training sessions and long contracts to put pressure on the boy. Obviously the extra years and money didnt entice him, so money alone is not the answer.

 

[Rawhead]

Does it matter how much.
Your club has leaked all this info to the papers about dinners and training sessions and long contracts to put pressure on the boy. Obviously the extra years and money didnt entice him, so money alone is not the answer.

Considering your point was that concessions should be scrapped based on the idea that we threw lots of money at Murphy, yeah I'd say it's a pretty important fact, your argument pretty much rests on it.

 

[True_Blue]

So, Carlton have offered prior to the draft a contract to a player.mmmmm.

When will they ever learn.

Well the western Bulldogs signed Jade Rawlings before preseason draft in 2003 so was that draft tampering.
If you have number 1 pick you are first in line no draft tampering at all