My 22 for round 1 next year

[buddylg]

B - Murphy - Gilham - Schoenmakers
HB - Gibson - Roughead - Stratton
C - Lewis - Burgoyne - Young => (or a faster outside player)
HF - Peterson - Franklin - Hodge
FF - Hooper - Lisle - (insert fast 185-190 outside mid/forward)
R - Renouf/Bailey - Mitchell - Rioli

Int - Ellis - Birchall - Shiels/Savage/Breust - Skipper/Lowden/(insert new ruck)

Schoenmakers has less pressure playing as 3rd or even 4th tall. Roughead can crash packs, is fast over short distances (have seen him tackle a few this year) and should sure up our defence. Gibson can rebound out of 50. Gilham and stratton can also rebound.

Lewis, Birchall and Young are extremely good front runners.

Lisle needs to play. Can kick 'em. It would only work though if we picked a Mark Le Cras (spelling?) -esque player. Le Cras is a guy who could play midfield but is forced to play forward, but look how good he is! Not suggesting going for him, but someone of that skill set (no one in particular comes to mind).

Bailey and Lowden are essential to success.

Shiels and savage need to play to get better. They have it in them.

Sewell, Ladson, Osborne and Bateman not in there. I have loved these guys and I could never actually be the guy that says to any player "we think we need to trade you". However, I would trade Brad Sewell, Gary Moss and a draft pick just to get Le Cras. Not that that would happen, but all signs are pointing to us having to move a big name to get what we need. Some are calling for lewis to be put up, but IMO he has more upside and more years in him than Sewell. Plus we have shiels, ellis, mitchell and hodge who can do the inside work. Rioli, burgoyne and lewis aren't afraid of being inside players either. Hell even birchall goes in and gets it.

Tarrant and Fraser are a no. Rather play Roughead back than risk getting tarrant. Rather chase a forward than a back. Fraser doesn't have the balls to put on brown and gold. You have to be hungry/angry next year. Bring back Kennedy's Commandos!

Hodge and peterson across half forward would ensure marks at aroudn 50-70m from goal then an accurate kick inside 50.

Thoughts?

 

[Hawka19]

Ummm, trading Brad Sewell? Hell no!

Agree with you on Ladson and Osborne and also noticed you left Guerra out. These guys need to make way for some younger guys so we can develop a bit of depth because right now, we don't have any depth.

 

[buddylg]

Ummm, trading Brad Sewell? Hell no!

Agree with you on Ladson and Osborne and also noticed you left Guerra out. These guys need to make way for some younger guys so we can develop a bit of depth because right now, we don't have any depth.

I know its a tough concept, but someone of that elk will have to go if Hawthorn want someone of equal quality (albeit different size/ability) in return. Plus we really should use our draft picks.

IMO Guerra and Ladson must go. I forgot to mention Guerra. I don't care how many kicks you get, if you can't spoil/take marks/tackle in the backline then you don't get a game. Thanks for helping us win a premiership, but we need something else to get our next one.

 

[maxsmart]

far too top heavy in the backline, you only have one player- Murphy capable of playing on a small to mid, l like Hodgey at half forward though- could direct the forward line like he did the back half in 08

 

[The Kipster]

As soon as I saw T Murphy, you lost me...

Osborne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Murphy

 

[Hawk88]

As much as i would love Roughy down back - wont ever happen with Clarko in charge

This is what i would LIKE to see - And again probably wont happen

Murphy - Shoe - WhiteX
Lewis - Gibson - Stratton
Birchall - Hodge - Young
Peterson - Franklin - Rioli
Hooper - Roughead - Breust

Fol Lowden/Bailey Mitchell Burger

Int Ellis, Savage, Shiels, Skipper/Renouf

- Savage and Shiels in for leg speed and youth
- Lewis to HBF, he needs to reinvent himself and I think he could do very well doing the Guerra role. Give him some responsiblilty and make him accountable.
- Shoey needs to play FB or CHB. The only way to learn to be the best is to play on the best.
- Birchall not HBF cant defend to save himself.
- Peterson, Hooper and Rioli all need to be in the team at the same time. Good luck trying to get the ball out when you got those three chasing you.
- Rioli to switch it up with Burger 30-40% of game time. Can mark and kick goals.
- Give Bruest a go, Lisle also an option but may be to slow.

Outs:Bateman, Sewell, Ozzie, Guerra
Ins:Savage, Shiels, Lowden/Bailey, Breust

 

[buddylg]

far too top heavy in the backline, you only have one player- Murphy capable of playing on a small to mid, l like Hodgey at half forward though- could direct the forward line like he did the back half in 08

Gibson, Murphy and Stratton are all the same height!!!

 

[buddylg]

As soon as I saw T Murphy, you lost me...

Osborne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Murphy

Tom Murphy - leadership group, holds small players well and puts his body on the line. When played out of position then.....well we know what happens.

Osborne, 28ish, very good player...but we need better players. Peterson, Hooper, Breust and Savage can fill Osborne's role. They all are at least 5 years younger than Ossie. I love Ossie but the next 3-4 years need to be filled with success.

I don't understand how people on this board seem to forget that the current team does not work. We will have to depart with some favourite sons and talent in order to improve.

 

[Gold Member]

Done.

My 22 as follows....

FB: O'Brien Lake T Murphy
HB: Enright Goddard H Shaw
C: Swan Hayes Montagna
HF: N Riewoldt J Brown Chapman
FF: S Johnson Franklin Rioli
Foll: Sandilands Ablett Hodge

INT: Jolly Pendlebury Watson Jurrah

 

[Cynic]

FB: Guerra - Gilham - Murphy
HB: Whitecross - Gibson - Stratton
CE: Ellis - Mitchell - Young
HF: Lewis - Franklin - Rioli
FF: Osborne - Roughead - Bateman
RU: Renouf - Hodge - Sewell
IN: Shiels - Burgoyne - Skipper - Peterson

 

[The Kipster]

Tom Murphy - leadership group, holds small players well and puts his body on the line. When played out of position then.....well we know what happens.

The guy puts his body on the line and courage (tick)

He cannot spoil for shit
If the ball comes in high he is lost
He has a slow thought process, so in essence when the ball is released the majority of the time our players are put under the pump unnecessarily.
Cannot keep his feet, is knocked out of the way far too easily
Is not an AFL standard player (oppopsition teams love him playing)

Sugar coat it all you like, we won't win a flag with him in the team

further more just check out some of the lowlights over the years where the ball has gone between his legs, arms, frsh air shots that miss...

 

[maxsmart]

Gibson, Murphy and Stratton are all the same height!!!

Murphy is better on the smalls than the talls but the other two arnt, you havnt got a guy under 189cms with any speed in there who can also provide alot of run off the back half line, also who does the kicking out?, there is no designated kicker that l would have confidence in.
what happens when they come up against St Kilda with milne, sneider or Geelong with byrnes, varcoe and stokes.
That backline would get torn to shreds

 

[junior27]

My Round 1 team for 2011.

B: Guerra - Gilham - Stratton
HB: Gibson - Tarrant? - Hodge
C: Bateman - Mitchell - Young
HF: Lewis - Franklin - Osbourne
FF: Hooper - Roughead - Josh Hill?
FOLL: Bailey - Sewell - Rioli - Burgoyne
INT FROM: Ellis - Shoenmakers - Renouf - Birchall - Shiels - Ladson

Trade Beau Dowler to Bulldogs for Josh Hill and shuffle our second round picks.
Campbell Brown to Gold Coast - Compo pick and Garry Moss to Freo for Tarrant.

Sewell tags, Hodge goes back, Bateman breaks lines and changes with Burgoyne on ball and rotates with Ellis and Hodge on ball.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I want Roughead at CHB and Schoenmakers to a half-forward spot. Franklin to CHF/FF. Bruest, Savage, Shiels and Milne in. Bailey in hopefully.

 

[Hawksgirl4eva]

I would like to see a forward line of:

HF Peterson Buddy Lewis
FF Lisle Schoenmakers/Roughead* Osssie/Hooper*

I like the idea of Schoey up Forward and Roughy down Back. As many others have already said Schoey was a forward when drafted and i think it would put a lot less presure on him as a younger player trying to develop.
As For Roughead I want to see him go back, i know it will most likley never happen, but it worked for Croady, and it's not as if Roughead has no skills and cant kick, handball, tackle, crash packs, or take a good mark, Roughy can do all of this, but he falls apart when placed in front of goals. So i would like to see a swap between these two players.

If Ossie goes to the GC, than Hooper takes his place and Lewis goes mid/starts on the bench.

That's my two cents anyway, i really think we need three talls, and evryone seems to rate Lisle really highly so I would like to see him get a go.

 

[Hawka19]

Murphy, Gilham, Gibson
Birchall, Stratton, Young
Bateman, Mitchell, Ellis
Lewis, Franklin, Burgoyne
Whitecross, Roughead, Hooper
Renouf, Hodge, Rioli

Bailey, Peterson, Shiels, Lisle

 

[Hawka19]

Murphy, Gilham, Gibson
Birchall, Stratton, Young
Bateman, Mitchell, Ellis
Lewis, Franklin, Burgoyne
Whitecross, Roughead, Hooper
Renouf, Hodge, Rioli

Bailey, Peterson, Shiels, Lisle

 

[Taskmaster]

Pressuming this happens

Brown, For Tarrant
Osbourne for Draft Pick
Ladson for Draft Pick
Taylor for draft pick

Then,

Stratton, Gibson, Muston - Very Solid
Bateman, Tarrant, Ellis - Run and Carry
Young, Mitchell, Rioli - Outside Speed
Hodge, Franklin, Skipper - Make the best of defenders nervous
Peterson, Roughead, Hooper - Big body and crumbers
Bailey, Burgouyne, Sewell - Height and football smarts

Lewis, Gilham, Lisle, Renouf

Pushing for selection:
Murphy
Birchall
Sheils
Bruest
Shoenmakers
Whitecross
Suckling
Savage
Moss
Dowler
Lowden

But who knows what will happen trade week?? But changes need to be made to Team.

 

[dipper86]

This is how I'd like to see the team line up, a bit more speed and carry with plenty of versatility, throw in some youngsters for enthusiasm and excitement.

B Stratton Gibson Whitecross >>>>>>>>>>> 2 back pockets to take on the small forwards, Birchall to provide the run, Gibson Shoey and Stratton to take
HB Birchall Shoey Guerra.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the leading forwards, with the option of having Gilham as back up and moving Shoey to the forward line.

C Young Mitchell Bateman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speed, carry breaking of the lines and depth of kicking through the wings.

HF Rioli Franklin Burgoyne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A half forward line of pure speed class and skill, Burgoyne and Rioli also playing through the midfield, also with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the versatility of Burgoyne to sure up the backline and provide some more run

FF Hooper Roughead Ellis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Big contested KP forward with Hooper at his feet providing pressure, with Ellis as the defensive forward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negating the oppositions best play maker.

R Renouf Hodge Mundy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like this line Hodge providing the grunt with Mundy providing the run and carry, his versatility means that he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can play anywhere from the back half to the forward half. With midfield/half forward/half back and bench
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rotations consisting of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Mundy, Burgoyne, Shiels and Rioli....Mundy gives a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versatility than Sewell who is limited positional wise, he's either a midfielder or nothing else. We have enough
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one paced grunt midfielders with Shiels coming through.

Inter. Lewis Skipper Shiels, Gilham, Savage>>>> Back up backman with the option of using Shoey in the forward line. Midfielder rotations in Shiels and Lewis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Skipper as our back up ruckman.

Pushing for Selection.
Lowden.
Ossie.
Murphy
Lisle
Peterson


Trades.
Ins Mundy. provides Run and Carry.
Out Sewell...we have a surplus of his type, we also need to give Shiels some time to develop.

Ins : Shoey, its time he is persited with, liek roughead and Franklin before him, learn on the best not the second rate forwards in The VFL. its time to be fast tracked. Shiels - Sewell replacement and Savage for some extra leg speed and depth of kicking.

Outs Murphy and Ossie. (very reluctant) Brown Gold Coast.

 

[Hawthorn4ever]

B - Guerra - Gibson - Stratton
HB - Hodge - Roughead - Birchall
C - Batemen - Mitchell - Young
HF - Peterson - Lisle - Lewis
FF - Hooper - Franklin - Osborne
R - Bailey - Burgoyne - Sewell
Int - Savage, Shiels, Schoenmakers, Lowden/Renouf/Skipper

Outs: Ladson, Murphy.

Hodge to be the link man in defence.
Guerra to kickout
Birchall to be the runner from defence
Hooper, Ozzie to be forward crummers
Peterson, Lisle lead up forwards
Lewis plays up the ground as winger/HFF
Buddy to play true FF leading out
Roughy, CHB interchanging with Lisle at CHF if need be.
Savage, Shiels, interchange runners
Shoe - spare tall
Young, bateman true wingers
Mitch, burger and sewell as main possession winners. Sewell as a tagger.
Goalkickers to be Buddy, peterson, lisle, hooper.

 

[buddylg]

Murphy is better on the smalls than the talls but the other two arnt, you havnt got a guy under 189cms with any speed in there who can also provide alot of run off the back half line, also who does the kicking out?, there is no designated kicker that l would have confidence in.
what happens when they come up against St Kilda with milne, sneider or Geelong with byrnes, varcoe and stokes.
That backline would get torn to shreds

Gilham is very good by foot, he and Burgoyne can share.

Speed off the half backline - do you not watch football? Every player is in the backline these days! However as I said, look at Gibbo - he is a rebounder. Plus Savage has speed and Shiels is has the current best 3km time trial at the club. Then Whitecross can also come in to play on these smalls.

There are many options. Guerra and Ladson are not the answer anymore. Murphy has earnt himself another year.

Don't forget that we have Langford, Stubbs, Mahoney etc coming in...as well as Milne and Muston who can play off the HB

 

[morningglory]

I've seen some strange, strange things going on in this thread, but I won't criticize or judge as I feel everyone is entitled to opinions.

Back Line

Thomas Murphy: A genuine back pocket who has definitely done enough to earn a spot playing on mid/small forwards. These days it seems every team has a Johnson/Le Cras/Betts in their side, so I feel he's pivotal to the back six as I can't see anyone on our list who does a better lock down job.

Stephen Gilham: Remains the best option as a KPD, and did some really good jobs in 2010. Remains maligned, but I remember reading someone asking how many better full backs there are. I can think of Glass, Scarlett and Lake, but throw a blanket over the rest.

Josh Gibson: Here's hoping he can get released to play the creative backman role that garnered so much interest in him in 2009. Its amazing that Murphy plays on tall guys, goes poorly and gets crucified, whilst Gibson does it, gets killed and gets told he's out of position. He was out of position, and hopefully 2011 has more creativity from Gibbo.

Half Back Line

Ben Stratton: The ideal backman who plays a couple of inches taller than they are. The ideal match ups for the O'Keefe's, J Riewoldts, and Dangerfields of this world. No doubt he sealed his spot for 2011 in the starting 18.

Ryan Schoenmakers: Its a lot harder to give a backman the treatment Clarko gave Buddy and Roughie at his age (just play 'em), and what Ratten is doing with Henderson atm, but there should be enough contingency plans with Gilham, Gibson and Stratton that you can get away with playing him on the first/second forward and educating him that way. If Hawthorn really do love him as much as we all think they do, they will do this in 2011.

Brent Guerra: Adds some much needed grunt and strength to this backline. His ball use makes him ideal as someone to stay behind the ball, and his strength will undoubtedly intimidate the small forwards of this world. Remains a required player.

Backline notes: I know everyone is crying out for Tarrant, but do we really need him? There is enough height down there to handle the majority of monsters, Schoenmakers should be our CHB for the next 10 years and I feel like Wayde Skipper could offer something in defence on the real monsters if need be.

Midfield

Clinton Young: A huge, huge, HUGEly important part of this side. His kicking has to be up there with the best in the game, and his run makes him so dangerous. The tag he received in the final is evidence of this. Remains very much a required player.

Sam Mitchell: I really don't mind if he goes under the radar now that Burgoyne and Hodge are firing in the centre. I'll happily watch his 30 touches and 6 clearances every single week. He may have gone down the pecking order from a league perspective but he is still undoubtedly our leader.

Cyril Rioli: Time to show that you are more than a small forward. Has Hooper-hammies, so Pre-season will be pivotal, but he could add so much to an already burgeoning midfield if he stays up the ground. Hooper and Peterson are surely in the side to release him.

On-ball

Brent Renouf: The Senior ruckman at the club, undoubtedly. Bailey may have more age, but its time for him to develop now with some secondary ruck duties in the 1s. I doubt Renouf will ever be a Cox/Naitanui or even a Jamar/Mumford, but he'll compete all game every game. He will be surpassed eventually, but until then, he's our man.

Shaun Burgoyne: Far too much poise and far too good in close to not start in the middle. Has definitely justified his worth with the tail end of his season, and the thought of a full pre-season is just too good to resist. Whaddaplaya!

Brad Sewell: Still vital in clearances and our best tagging option. Should start in the guts for sure, whether it be as a tagger or winning the ball himself.

Midfield notes: Can Hodge serve us better elsewhere? Seems to be struggling of late with the number one tag, and if he is keen, he should float where he wants. With guys like Birchall, Bateman, Ellis and Lewis to come, the midfield looks like our strength yet again.

Half-Forward

Luke Hodge: I saw this from someone else and really loved the idea. We all know he can kick goals, and to see him pinch hit through the middle would be exciting.

Jordan Lisle: Seems to be the best third tall option at the club up forward, and it could be his year to strike. If we were to trade for anything, a young key forward wouldn't hurt.

Xavier Ellis: Youth alone wins him a spot. He still has a few flaws in his game that he needs to iron out, but his best silences any doubts of whether he should be there or not. Looked good in this role as the season progressed, definitely seems to be a future there for him.

Full Forward line

Jarryd Roughead: Is there a stat for most goals ever kicked whilst people still think you're a backman? Keep him close to goal, get him crashing packs and giving us a chance.

Lance Franklin: Had a genuinely superb year, but I can't help but feel like he needs to spend the majority of his time deep. I thought 2010 was really not far off his 2008.

Rhan Hooper: Looked so dangerous during his few games. Another one who will need a few things to go his way in the Pre-Season, but this spot is his for the taking.

Forward notes: Can't squeeze Peterson in regardless of how hard I try. Three special things a game is not really worth squeezing anyone who is in that side out. Buddy and Rough to play deep together for the majority of the year and cause a world of headaches, Lisle to lead up.

Bench

Wayde Skipper: It will become increasingly harder to play two ruckmen, especially if the interchange cap comes in, so Skipper's value rises again. Can play literally any tall position on the ground.

Jordan Lewis: Whilst an increasingly strong midfield sees his squeezed out of the starting 18, he adds a flexibility to the side that could be important.

Chance Bateman: He will never stop trying, nor running, but it is hard to see Changa getting back to 07-08 form. I think 2011 will be the start of his decline as he begins to age. Still a spot for him if he can maintain his pace and endurance.

Grant Birchall: Offers some sort of flexibility to the side, but you can see him gradually becoming surplus. With the elite running and genuine midfield options of Savage and Shiels nipping at his heels, his days at Hawthorn could be numbered.

The fringe
Max Bailey: Make or break - if he can get it together in the VFL, he will undoubtedly pass Renouf. If not, you would have to think it was end of career, if it isn't already.

Brendan Whitecross: Is yet to nail down a spot, which is both keeping him on the fringe and keeping him out of the side. I can't help but rate him, but next year looms as vital.

Carl Peterson: A distant third choice as small forward; miles behind second and miles ahead of fourth. I don't think he does enough, but I love watching him play all the same.

Liam Shiels/Shane Savage: Should be pushing themselves up into the realms of midfield depth.

Michael Osborne: May have a role to play in 2011, but like Ladson of 2010, he's starting to become obsolete.



With regards to trades, this is the way I see our current list.

Ruckmen: 6
Inside Mids: 7
Outside Mids: 7
Small/Medium Forwards: 8
Tall Forwards: 5
Small/Medium Defenders: 10
Key Position Defenders: 5

One of those forwards (Dowler) needs to go (apparently), so if anything we need some depth in the key forwards. If Buddy or Rough go down we look shaky.

Thoughts? Would have no qualms in swapping Rioli with Ellis. Am I forgetting anyone?

 

[dipper86]

Not sure what our R1 team would be, but assuming no 'newbies' and no Browndog here is what I think our R22 team will look like:

Gilham, Lisle, Gibson
Guerra, Stratton, Burgoyne
Savage, Rioli, Birchall
Lewis, Franklin, Young
Schoenmakers, Roughead, Osborne
Bailey, Hodge, Mitchell
Int: Renouf, Sewell, Shiels, Ellis
Emg: Bateman, Hooper, Peterson, Whitecross, Murphy, Skipper

I am not convinced that Schoey is a defender, he may be a swingman. Same with Lisle he can play defence and forward. Perhaps he is a better option to develop as a defender than Schoey.

And I'm not convinced Lisle has the pace of the mark to keep up with the oppositions best forwards. I think Shoey is a better option.

 

[burner1]

WX Shoe Gibson
Hodge Stratton Savage
Young Burgoyne Bateman
Peterson Buddy Rioli
Muston Rough Hooper
Bailey Mitch Sewell
Int:Renouf, Ellis, Shiels, Birchall

The best 22 we played vs freo isnt good enough - we need to inject new faces and back them to perform. We should not be scared to send senior players to box hill. Gilham, guerra, ossie, lewis, murphy, ladson to get games on performance, not reputation, and all have [significant] flaws in their game that they need to work on (as do some in my 22)

 

[Bear Goals]

B: Guerra Tarrant Gilham
HB: Birchall Gibson Stratton
W: Ellis Mitchell Young
HF: Burgoyne Franklin Rioli
F: Osborne Roughead Hooper
R: Renouf Sewell Hodge
Int: Bailey/ Skipper (depending on Bailey's fitness/ ability), Murphy, Peterson, Lewis/ Ellis/ Bateman ( Who Knows? )

I think that this team is a top 4 side easily, i don't get peoples fascination with playing Roughead down back, i know this year he has had kicking issues, but he still had very close to 100 scoring shots on goal kicking 53 goals, now thats a pretty good year for a 2nd string foward, i would like pick up another medium foward eg Williams, hopefully Peterson can fill the role this year with a bit more fitness.
Hopefully we can have a full list, and players such as Sheils, Breust, Lisle and Schoenmakers can keep pushing for selection.
That 4th bench spot will be interesting I reckon our 25 is has good has anyone's and will want at least a top 4 finish next year.
Go Hawks!