My 22 for round 1 next year

[hodge = gun]

FB: Guerra Gibson Gilham

HB: Murphy Stratton Birchall

C: Young Mitchell Bateman

HF: Osborne Roughead Franklin

FF: Rioli Hale Lewis

Foll: Renouf Hodge Burgoyne

In: Ellis Sewell Whitecross

Sub: Shoenmakers

Emer: Shiels Ladson Suckling

Hale spending 10 minutes a quarter in the ruck in this time Renouf rests on the bench, we recruited Hale so we didn't have to rest a 2nd ruck on the bench so obviously he will spend as much time up forward as possible allowing us to rotate the three bench players as much as possible, hoping Lewis can play the same role as he did in the middle part of last year as a defensive goal kicking forward. Hoping we might be able to inject a Jed Lamb into the side which would make Osborne's spot up for grabs! Hoping Buddy will be given a bit more license to go through the middle and use his engine to get free of his opponent! The key will be to keep our runners fit all year, burgoyne, rioli, bateman, young will be pivotal to a successful 2011 campaign.

 

[dipper86]

Stratton has shown every hawks fan where Schoenmakers should be at..

You do realize that Stratton is a 1 year and a half older, You really need to get a bit of perspective. Shoenmachers is a genuine KPP, Stratton isn't. To say that Shoenmachers has had enough chances is completely and utterly idiotic. He has all the physical attributes to make it as a player at Hawthorn.

 

[TheFourPillars]

For all of you bagging some of our young recruits need to gain some perspective. Not every kids gonna be a superstar and not every kid will start playing great football immediately. It comes down to a number of factors

1. Skill - This is something if the kid has some is a great advantage. He can always improve. Darren Jarman, Bucky, Hodge and Guerra all great kicks but they keep working at it. Hodge and Guerra try to kick right footed

2. Talent - This is general nous know how to play football. You either have it or you don't. It makes a difference between a serviceable player and yes every team has them and a geunine star (refer to our top 6 players)

3. Physical Attributes - This is self explanatory. Strength speed height etc etc. You can improve these attributes throughout your career. You generally do Franklin is a perfect example use to fall over a lot as a youngster.

4. Desire - One of the most important criteria in a footballer. See Peterson and Hooper and to lesser extent Dowler. Without it you may as well quit and go home you are never going to make it.

5. Character - Yes a player needs character to never give up take on board the lessons learnt. Accept his weaknesses, Show courage and to quote a team rule "Go when its your turn"

5. Confidence - Its intangible that you need to believe in yourself and your abilities. Believe that you can contribute postively and know that you belong in the team. Enter whitecross plays like a gun in the VFL. He knows he can do it at that level. Takes risk runs and creates. Wins contested ball. It is my belief its only confidence and good pre season that is holding Whitecross from being a very important player for us

6. Training - Preseason training and in general showing up and doing the training. This is largely dependant on age and injury. Whitecross, Savage didn't do a pre season this year along with ladson, changa and young. I am looking forward to them putting the hard yards this year hopefully injury free.

7. Development - Development comes from improvement and finding a role for yourself as part of a football team. You need to have the right people around the club guiding you. We've seen development in Murphy this year. Yes i know most people wont agree. We have also identified other players and coaches that have shown no development and have not provided the right guidance. These people have left the club.

8. Improvement - First stage of development. Idetifying weaknesses in your game and training and attempting to fix those parts of your game. E.g Luke Breust could be the small forward we need next year was told by the coaching panel to go and develop his defensive side. Tackle more etc.

9. Opportunity - For a player to develop and succeed as an AFL player he needs to be provided with opportunities at AFL level. Yes he will make mistakes and yes he will earn the ire of supporters see Murphy whitex schoenmakers but every player needs game time.

10. Challenge - Player when given opportunties at AFL level needs to be challenged play on difficult opponents. Its a way to learn and develop your game call it on the job training if you like. It is the players ability to rise to the challenge.

11. Injuries - You need a bit of luck in football. Poor Max bailey if only he can get on the football field. He has had 3 knee recos and yet still survives on our list. Amazing. Must be the something about his "Character" and the preceeding set of attributes i have just described.

The HFC have been lagging behind other clubs in our player development. Things should improve hopefully on that front in the change in personnel. There are some genuinely talented footballers on our list. That we haven't seen yet put on our colours in the AFL and there are that have but very sporadically and in my opinion with not much system being thrown into different roles etc. Give them a go. Finally Go you mighty Hawkers

 

[johnojnr]

You do realize that Stratton is a 1 year and a half older, You really need to get a bit of perspective. Shoenmachers is a genuine KPP, Stratton isn't. To say that Shoenmachers has had enough chances is completely and utterly idiotic. He has all the physical attributes to make it as a player at Hawthorn.

Happy to be proven wrong, however I always thought some players either had the decision making ability or not? If he cant improve that then he wont make it... And by the looks of things he is the bigfooty lovechild?? The hawks have had some real fizzer 1st rnd draft picks, he is more than likely headed that way

 

[JohnHawk04]

For what it is worth, this is my preferred line up.

FB: Stratton Gilham Gibson
HB: Birchall Schoenmakers Young

Schonemakers needs to develop more in the AFL. He needs games and so I think we should play him. Gibson can play on the smalls (and talls if need) as can Stratton, and we have plenty of run with Young and Birchall. This also means Gibson/Stratton can play on less dangerous forwards which means he can play the third man in the contest which he is good at.

C: Bateman Mitchell Burgoyne
R: Renouf Hodge Sewell

If this year showed anything to us, it’s that Luke Hodge is so much more valuable in the middle of the ground. He will play good anywhere but he needs to be in the middle in my opinion. Renouf is our best Ruck at this stage, and the wingers add pace. Rotations with Rioli and Young through the middle mean that we add to the speed in the centre of the ground.

HF: Lewis Franklin Rioli
FF: Osbourne Roughead Hale

I think Hale was recruited for his versatility. With the sub rule we need a ruck with a second string to his bow. I think he will play forward for big percentages of the game, leaving Roughy and Buddy more dangerous. A third defender will have to play on one of these three, and we could exploit that match up.
The forward I don’t like in this line up is Osbourne. I used to rate him but I think he has gone backwards. I think this highlights our needs to get a small forward/goal sneak in the draft, especially when Rioli moves into the middle.

INT: Ellis Whitecross Shiels
SUB: Guerra

There is versatility on the bench. We have seen Whitecross play in any position. Shiels needs games as well to develop. And Guerra as a sub means that we can take anyone off and Guerra can fill the position, especially with a line up that has plenty of midfielders in it.
Eg: if we sub an injured mid, we can move Guerra down back and Young into the middle. And we know Guerra can also play forward too, pushing Rioli/Lewis into the middle. Also with him getting older, it suits him to come on as an impact player.

In my opinion, this line up will challenge a lot of sides. If we get it together, we will be pushing close to a premiership next season. Let’s hope so anyway.

 

[Rev08]

Happy to be proven wrong, however I always thought some players either had the decision making ability or not? If he cant improve that then he wont make it... And by the looks of things he is the bigfooty lovechild?? The hawks have had some real fizzer 1st rnd draft picks, he is more than likely headed that way

Please, do me a favour and name all the KPP from Schoenmakers' draft that have performed to his standard or better? There are few.

2 years is not enough to know if a player "has it or not", especially a KPP. After 2 years Steve Gilham hadn't played a game of AFL footy. After 4 years he was delisted. After 6 years he was a premiership full-back. Give Schoey time.

 

[HeHateMe]

FB: Stratton Gilham Gibson
HB: Birchall Schoenmakers Young

Schonemakers needs to develop more in the AFL. He needs games and so I think we should play him. Gibson can play on the smalls (and talls if need) as can Stratton, and we have plenty of run with Young and Birchall. This also means Gibson/Stratton can play on less dangerous forwards which means he can play the third man in the contest which he is good at.

Having Gibson play on the small is all good but, Murphy is a much better small forward defender. Gibson always had trouble playing on the smalls at north.also Burgoyne is a much better option then young at HB.

C: Bateman Mitchell Burgoyne
R: Renouf Hodge Sewell

If this year showed anything to us, it’s that Luke Hodge is so much more valuable in the middle of the ground. He will play good anywhere but he needs to be in the middle in my opinion. Renouf is our best Ruck at this stage, and the wingers add pace. Rotations with Rioli and Young through the middle mean that we add to the speed in the centre of the ground

we might need more inside mid pace one of Burgoyne, Rioli, Bateman could run though there.

HF: Lewis Franklin Rioli
FF: Osbourne Roughead Hale

I think Hale was recruited for his versatility. With the sub rule we need a ruck with a second string to his bow. I think he will play forward for big percentages of the game, leaving Roughy and Buddy more dangerous. A third defender will have to play on one of these three, and we could exploit that match up.
The forward I don’t like in this line up is Osbourne. I used to rate him but I think he has gone backwards. I think this highlights our needs to get a small forward/goal sneak in the draft, especially when Rioli moves into the middle.

i like the forward line, on the small forward part though Lewis and Ellis could be a option. Not overly quick but very smart, could rove the ball fine if one of them spends time at hales feet.

INT: Ellis Whitecross Shiels
SUB: Guerra

There is versatility on the bench. We have seen Whitecross play in any position. Shiels needs games as well to develop. And Guerra as a sub means that we can take anyone off and Guerra can fill the position, especially with a line up that has plenty of midfielders in it.
Eg: if we sub an injured mid, we can move Guerra down back and Young into the middle. And we know Guerra can also play forward too, pushing Rioli/Lewis into the middle. Also with him getting older, it suits him to come on as an impact player.

Bench is fine Shiels to rotate with the inside mids and Whitecross to rotate with the outside mids. Ellis can play in a pocket when hale is rucking and guerra can fill most holes.

 

[Rev08]

FWIW, my best 22 next year reads:

B: Guerra Gilham Murphy
HB: Stratton Gibson Birchall
C: Burgoyne Mitchell Young
HF: Rioli Franklin Lewis
F: Osborne Roughead Breust
R: Hale Hodge Sewell
I: Renouf Ellis Whitecross
S: Shiels

*Schoenmakers, Bailey and Savage will continue to develop as the year progresses, putting pressure on guys like Shiels, Whitecross, Breust, Gilham and Birchall. Very unlikely that any of these guys will play 22 games in 2011.

**Clarkson generally likes to give players a debut in round 1. Expect Breust to be the lucky one in 2011.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

It is interesting trying to pick the side and inject some pace into the midfield without turning over too many players as the reality is the Hawks coaching staff are pretty similar in their selection policy to the Australian cricket selectors. Once you are in you are in and it is pretty hard to get dropped.

One permanent move that hasn't really been contemplated a whole heap in this thread but sort of started to occur in 2010 was Franklin into the midfield on a more permanent basis. Ready made line-breaker with pace to burn and run and carry and a very accurate field kick - exactly what we are hoping to find in the upcoming draft (but not guaranteed).

He will kick a goal a game at least as a mid and we need goalkicking mids plus we need pace in our midfield spread. His transformation from a forward to a midfielder started this year with our style of play challenging him to outrun opponents into space so he has started to build his tank for the midfield. Would rest forward at times.

His hundred goal season is in the past. The game has changed dramatically tactically since then. We found out this year that we need a more even performance across the park so time to spread the load, put responsibility on Roughie and unearth a new forward or two.

Not many players who have kicked 100 could make the transformation to an elite midfielder but he can. He could be on track to become the next Adam Goodes perhaps who is a gun in multiple positions. It makes the Swans more unpredictable and more flexible - things our current side lacks badly.

Why would you take someone who has kicked 100 away from the goalsquare? Because we can with Franklin and it might get us closer to our next flag than having him up forward.

This move is contingent upon us being able to spread the load up forward and relies largely on Roughie firing as the number 1 forward as well as finding another productive forward - this could be Hale or could be Schoey.

We need a new dimension to our midfield desperately and this move is in our control.

It is just a thought as to how we can start to regenerate our side using what we already have.

Yes it is the offseason well and truly. Healthy debate rather than abuse requested. Let's try and make this offseason pass as quick as possible.

 

[Dollars Inc]

Could not agree more..... Lisle or Schoey to possibly be that next big forward or Hale resting/ Bailey resting

 

[Brant]

FWIW, my best 22 next year reads:

B: Guerra Gilham Murphy

I don't mind that team Rev, but 1 thing troubles me: that being the Full Back line. There isn't a guy there that could knock Kurt Tippet or Jesse White's hats off their heads; nor could they stop Kosi, Schultz or Josh Hill in the marking contest. I can only close my eyes & shudder when thinking what a resting ruckman like Gardner (St K), Jolly, Ottens or Sandilands would do.

Same old problem I guess.

 

[Brant]

It is interesting trying to pick the side and inject some pace into the midfield without turning over too many players as the reality is the Hawks coaching staff are pretty similar in their selection policy to the Australian cricket selectors. Once you are in you are in and it is pretty hard to get dropped.

One permanent move that hasn't really been contemplated a whole heap in this thread but sort of started to occur in 2010 was Franklin into the midfield on a more permanent basis. Ready made line-breaker with pace to burn and run and carry and a very accurate field kick - exactly what we are hoping to find in the upcoming draft (but not guaranteed).


Yes it is the offseason well and truly. Healthy debate rather than abuse requested. Let's try and make this offseason pass as quick as possible.

RR, I don't disagree with anything you said in your post. Buddy would kick at least a goal a game; he does run & create; he does break lines; he is a good field kick; & he could be Goodes-like - although he is a little clumsy in the air, but better on the ground. What I disagree with is the concept of moving him from the Forward 50.

To me, borrowing from a strength to prop up a weakness (real or perceived) is the mother of our downfall to mediocrity. For a year (maybe 18 months) now we have built a game style on trying to protect our weaknesses, instead of exploiting opponent's weaknesses with our strengths.

I agree that Buddy could be a good mid and all that... But he IS the only forward in 15 odd years to kick 100 goals; and he & Ruff ARE the only genuine Forward Combo in the game (Brown/Fev unproven).

If we need mids then draft/trade for them. IMO we must fix deficiencies - not cover them by weakening other areas - that is short term / mid game stuff; not what you build a premiership season on.

 

[Rev08]

I don't mind that team Rev, but 1 thing troubles me: that being the Full Back line. There isn't a guy there that could knock Kurt Tippet or Jesse White's hats off their heads; nor could they stop Kosi, Schultz or Josh Hill in the marking contest. I can only close my eyes & shudder when thinking what a resting ruckman like Gardner (St K), Jolly, Ottens or Sandilands would do.

Same old problem I guess.

Couldn't agree more Brant, but you show me the player that will knock Kurt Tippet's hat off his head and I'll be the first to put his name on the team sheet. I just can't see anyone capable of doing that yet. Schoenmakers might be the one to do it, but I'm not convinced that at 20/21 he will be ready to do it?

Lisle is a big body, but seems too slow off the mark to play FB?

Without a big-bodied defender Hawthorn have got it HALF right at the moment. That is, players leaving their man to be 3rd man up in the marking contest. Where they have got it wrong is that the midfielders aren't working back hard to enough to ensure we have someone to compete at ground level. If I had a dollar for every time Guerra left his man, created the spill and Guerra's man kicked an easy goal, well, I'd be a rich man.

 

[Brant]

Rev I am trying to put my money where my mouth is so to speak & am working on my (post trade week) 22 right now - and I have exactly the same issue. I can't find a tall defender for the FB-line either...

 

[ArmaHawk]

I think we have a really strong core, its juggling players around so that we can obtain the best from those 16-22 players who are harder to pick. I'm not sure about Sewell or Bateman. There is a really query about whether Bateman is up to it. He was great in 2008 and has lost the run and impact. Sewell is another very good player. At his best he is a fantastic extractor capable of 30 odd possessions. Just very similar to a Mitchell or Lewis who I think just go in before him. I'm very keen on Shiels and Savage but can we fit them into the team? Finally, I think our defence is fine contrary to many on this forum. Instead for mine the key is a running HFF who can bomb the ball in long and kick goals. This is a bit of a pipe dream but if we can pick up a Jed Lamb type who can play with an impact from round 1 that will make us very dangerous.

I really like the pick up of Hale as well. If he can give good service in the ruck and up forward we start to look very dangerous.

My Best 22 :

Guerra Gilham Murphy
Stratton Gibson Birchall
Young Mitchell Savage
Osborne Franklin Lewis
Hale Roughhead Rioli

Int Ellis Shiels Sewell

Sub Bateman/Whitecross

 

[ArmaHawk]

Whoops. Left Hodge, Burgoyne and Renouf out of my team. Should read:

Guerra Gilham Murphy
Stratton Gibson Birchall
Young Mitchell Savage
Osborne Franklin Lewis
Hale Roughhead Rioli
Hodge Burgoyne Renouf

Int Ellis Shiels Sewell

Sub Bateman/Whitecross

 

[Thorgils]

B: Guerra - Gilham - Gibson

HB: Murphy - Stratton - Birchall

C: Burgoyne - Mitchell - Young

HF: Rioli - Franklin - Lewis

FF: Hale - Roughead - Osbourne

FOLL: Renouf - Sewell - Hodge (C)

I/C: Cheney - Ellis - Bateman

SUB: Shoenmakers

EMERG: Shiels - Lisle - Bruest

Read em and weep boys

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Bateman Stratton Guerra
Gibson Hodge Birchall
Young Mitchell Savage
Milne Schoey Osborne
Bruest Roughead Rioli​

Hale Franklin Burgoyne

I/C: Renouf Sewell Shiels

Sub: Lewis


No Gilham, Ellis, Murphy. We look much quicker without them and don't lose a whole heap with them missing.

Good injection of youth without setting us back.

Whitecross waiting in the wings in the 2s keeps Guerra honest but also Sewell and Lewis through the midfield. Prefer Savage in the side over Whitecross as Savage is a more genuine mid who we need to develop. Savage will hopefully become a Nigel Lappin clone.

Could swap Shiels for Whitecross but favoured Shiels as I reckon he has more genuine pace and again is part of our future midfield whereas I see Whitecross still as a defender in the long term.

Back to where it all started in the back pocket for Changa. He is the best equipped on our list to be an attacking small defender.

We have to blood Bruest and likewise Savage. Get games into them. Both have pace and ability.

Get Buddy in at centre bounces to provide some diversity to our starting midfield types. Let him freewheel through the midfield but more forward than back - he is our Gary Ablett jnr structure-wise. Makes us much harder to contain with the threat of him being a goal kicking mid. He will give us the midfield burst we currently lack.

Milne is the missing link utility. Watch this space. Prob more of a linking defender but looks smart enough to hold down a flank and find midfield ball through the centre.

Schoey can play the searching lead role ala Scott Lucas he looks suited to. He could be a really exciting player in this role. I reckon Lisle's only chance at getting games is if Roughie gets injured so don't see him in competition for the forward role Schoey can play.

Extra defender is one of Schoey or Roughie if needed with Hale playing forward in replace of one of these two. Hale also means that Hodge can go into the midfield if needed as well.

Something may have to give if we are not winning games in terms of having Mitchell, Sewell and Lewis in the same side in terms of pace.

Wouldn't you love to have a Crawford to throw into the side. He is exactly what we are missing.

 

[Brant]

This is at least my 2nd effort (maybe 3rd) at Rnd 1 - Best 22; but my first effort since Trade Week.

FB: Stratton Gilham Shiels
CHB: Burgoyne Gibson Savage (Swap Stratts for Gibbo if required)
Ce: Bateman Mitchell Young
HF: Franklin Schoey Lewis
FF: Rioli Roughy Ossie
Foll: Hale Hodge Sewell
I/C: Ellis Renouf Birchall
Sub: W-X
Em: Murphy Lisle Guerra Cheney

I have built this team to focus on our strengths and I think we would do very well with this line up.

In Shiels, Savage, Rioli, Lewis, Ellis, Birchall, Burgoyne & W-X we have 8 guys in other spots that can rotate through running positions / midfield. I see this as a big strength - especially with this Sub rule.

Also, we have genuine champions of the game in every line other than FB:

FB - Nil (yet!)
HB - Burgoyne
C - Mitchell
HF - Buddy
FF - Roughy (OK - maybe not a champion of the game; but a bloody good player).
Foll - Hodgey

We also have an unstoppable Forwardline:
- The modern game's only genuine Forward Combo in "Buddy/Ruff";
- Rioli.... enough said;
- Schoey, taking the 3rd defender with his size & speed would be a delight to watch (for us!!).

Our backline looks short, but at least it is fast & aggressive. We have been slow & defensive in our back 50m of late - in the above way our focus is 'rebound'; as I believe this what has been missing & will win us games.


* Rev08 - same issue mate...

 

[Rev08]

Bateman Stratton Guerra

Gibson Hodge Birchall
Young Mitchell Savage
Milne Schoey Osborne
Bruest Roughead Rioli​

Hale Franklin Burgoyne

I/C: Renouf Sewell Shiels

Sub: Lewis


No Gilham, Ellis, Murphy. We look much quicker without them and don't lose a whole heap with them missing.

I shudder to think what will happen when teams bomb it in long to that full back line. Sure Gilham is not Brian Lake, but he does a serviceable job. The only way Gilham will be dropped next year is if Schoenmakers or Lisle develop...fast.

Ellis isn't going anywhere either. Watch round 22 against the Pies and you'll see that he's not slow. A full pre-season and he will be in our best 10 players at the club.

Milne is not up to AFL standard as yet. Buddy won't start in the centre square.

With Savage, Schoenmakers, Milne, Breust and Shiels all in the same team we would be taking a backward step next year. Sure, we need to blood some youth, but not that much in the one team. Whitecross is ahead of all those younger players anyway.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I'm having another go!

FB: Stratton - Schoey - Guerra
HB: Chenney - Rough - Gibson
Ce: Young - Hodge - Burgoyne
HF: Lewis - Buddy - Bateman
FF: Rioli - Hale - Osborne

Ru: Bailey
RR: Mitchell
Ro: Sewell

I/C: Birchall, Ellis and Savage

Sub: Whitecross

Apologies: Gilham, Murphy, Renouf, Shiels...

 

[Jaeger]

I'm having another go!

FB: Stratton - Schoey - Guerra
HB: Chenney - Rough - Gibson
Ce: Young - Hodge - Burgoyne
HF: Lewis - Buddy - Bateman
FF: Rioli - Hale - Osborne

Ru: Bailey
RR: Mitchell
Ro: Sewell

I/C: Birchall, Ellis and Savage

Sub: Whitecross

Apologies: Gilham, Murphy, Renouf, Shiels...

Renouf is surely ahead of Bailey. I reckon Renouf is currently our number 1 ruckman.

At the moment, Gilham and Murphy are ahead of Cheney and Schoenmakers.

Besides that, great side. Rioli, Bateman and Lewis would probably be swapping with Burgoyne and Young at times to allow them to have stints in the midfield.

Not sure how I feel about Roughy going to CHB. Depends where Buddy plays.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I shudder to think what will happen when teams bomb it in long to that full back line. Sure Gilham is not Brian Lake, but he does a serviceable job. The only way Gilham will be dropped next year is if Schoenmakers or Lisle develop...fast.

Ellis isn't going anywhere either. Watch round 22 against the Pies and you'll see that he's not slow. A full pre-season and he will be in our best 10 players at the club.

Milne is not up to AFL standard as yet. Buddy won't start in the centre square.

With Savage, Schoenmakers, Milne, Breust and Shiels all in the same team we would be taking a backward step next year. Sure, we need to blood some youth, but not that much in the one team. Whitecross is ahead of all those younger players anyway.

Don't disagree re: the long high ball but Gilham was there this season and wasn't effective in killing it. I am a Gilham fan but I reckon something has to give up back as we have too many pinch hitters and not enough run or anyone playing the third man up role with success. Time to change the balance up a bit. It is interesting to look at a side without him - not convinced that it looks much weaker.

The side I have picked we are still vulnerable to the long high ball although playing Stratts deeper might help as he is our best spoiler by a mile.

The two other things we lacked last year up back IMO were"

1. Run out of defence and
2. A a quality 3rd man up to assist in killing the high ball.

Bateman and Hodge improve us in that area so I think that is an improved back 6 in two of the three areas we struggled with last year. It hurts to take Hodge away from the midfield but I don't reckon we have anyone else who can make the backline gel more than he can and read the play as well.

Whitecross could easily take the Bateman role but was wanting someone deep up back who will take the game on and run and carry from deep in defence and Changa is proven in this regard. The Bateman selection in this position was more a point in case that we need an attacking small defender. Who else do we have who can play this role?

Must say I am not an Ellis fan. You point to one game - I can point you to half a season of him struggling this year. May possess speed but rarely uses it. Doesn't use the ball well enough to be considered an outside midfielder and is behind Lewis, Sewell and co as an inside mid. He is a golden child so I have no doubt he will be in the side round 1 but I just dont think he has been made to earn game like others on our list. Just not convinced of what he brings to the side - really hope to be proven wrong and I mean that genuinely.

In terms of the youngsters, I see us as being in a mini-rebuild phase and the guys I have picked have genuine ability and hopefully a heap of upside - something we have lost with losing Willo, Crawf, Dew, etc. The Ladson's, Murphy's and Gilham's don't have any more upside. Murph obviously improved a heap this year but for all his positive work in stopping forwards I just think he undermines our rebound ability too much given our other defenders struggle to break lines so he is a victim of structure in my book.

The young guys mentioned below need to be fast-tracked even if it causes us some short term pain. Schoey, Shiels, Savage, Milne, Bruest have all been on the list for at least 2 years so aren't lambs to the slaughter. Four of the five have played seniors.

1. Morton was tried as a half-forward/utility this season with limited success because of his average footskills. It is a role we are crying out for in the side in terms of having a hit up player and I think Milne can play this role as he is a good size, reads the play well and uses it well. Am confident he will make the transition to AFL level. The way he plays he tends to fly under the radar so he could be a quiet achiever for us.

2. I am not convinced of the Schoey defender experiment. To me he looks a natural forward who can find the ball on long searching leads. Let's give him the best chance of making it in the position he looks most suited to. Plus if he does make it in this role it frees up Buddy to play midfield which could win us a premiership.

3. A free-wheeling Buddy through the midfield would add another dimension to what is currently a one-paced midfield which lacks height and the ability to cut sides up on the spread. He would kick goals from the midfield plus it would challenge him to improve. If Hodge goes back we still have absolute quality in the midfield by bringing Buddy in - we don't lose anything in fact Buddy is a better fit with Sewell, Mitchell, etc than Hodge because of his height and pace. It is a move contingent upon a functioning forward line with Roughie shouldering responsibility and Schoey/Hale standing up as the second forward.

4. We need to uncover another Crawf (Shiels?) and another Bateman (Savage?) so the sooner we look to our next wave of youngsters the better. These two are genuine hard running and ball carrying midfielders which we currently lack. They are good fits structurally in the midfield even if they might not quite have the tanks just yet.

5. Bruest has that real X-factor and plenty of pace so is hopefully going to be a real asset for us. Small body but brilliant footwork and a good set shot. We are desperate for ground level goal kicking bite. I want to see our forward line stacked with players who are proven goalkickers in 2011 - not role playing defensive forwards who freeze in front of goals.

I do agree that it is prob 1 too many youngsters to carry though so it is prob a Shiels out for a Whitecross unless a Bateman is struggling.


After 2 season of treading water I think we need to look to the future in 2011 at selection. We are not far off but need some rejuvenation.

 

[burner1]

I like the bateman suggestion as a bp - if he can regain his explosiveness could really add something down back. Definitely has a bit of mongrel in him which goes well down back.

I'm not sure I like hodge as CHB though - the way he plays his body will be stuffed before the season is out. I'd prefer him to play a more free-wheeling / 3rd man up role where he can rely on his play reading ability and rebound (similar to fletcher from essendon plays now).

What are people's thoughts on moulding renouf into a makeshift tall defender? When he was drafted he was a mobile kpp / ruck. Having him down back would certainly solve the issue with the high ball in. Is pretty mobile and competitive at ground level for a big fella - not sure of his acceleration but appears pretty mobile - how would be compare to ryder or james blake from saints?
This would be all dependent on us assuming we can get sufficent games at of bailey at afl level. A tandem ruck combo of hale/bailey rotating through full forward is pretty appealing on paper.

B: Bateman Stratton Gibson
HB: WX Renouf Hodge
C: Birchall Mitch Savage
HF: Ossie Shoey Buddy
F: Breust Rough Rioli
R: Hale Burgoyne Sewell
Int: Bailey Shiels Young Sub: Milne/Lewis/Ellis

Backline
-stratton, gibson and renouf as our 3 'tall defenders' - positions will depend on matchups
-hodge as the '3rd man up' / general role that he plays so well
-Bateman as the linebreaking small runner
-WX to play as small/medium defender, rebounding flanker or 3rd man up depending on matchups - is here due to his versatility. With hodge back guerra isnt needed as much for his footskills, murphy is too one-dimensional and gilham is not needed with gibson, stratton and renouf as defenders

Midfield
-tough call between the booming kick of young or the more consistent running of birchall - I went for birchall as young has been too up and down over the past few seasons. Savage to take the other wing
-Mitch and sewell the ballwinning grunt (sewell tagging at times), burgoyne the inside class with support from rioli, hodge, WX etc and hardrunning support on the bench in young and shiels. We should be able to match most teams in running power with this line-up.

Forwards
-Buddy to play as a hff/quasi mid - until he fixes his hands think provides more x-factor up the ground.
-Ossie on thin ice as a hff - needs a big year, but provides grunt and experience. Shoe as leadup 'chf'.
-Bailey and hale to rotate forward to provide a 3rd tall target given buddy will be spending a lot of time up the ground
-Rioli and breust to add the magic at ground level that we have been missing - given hale and bailey will spend time up forward need rioli and breusts pace at ground level

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Renouf is surely ahead of Bailey. I reckon Renouf is currently our number 1 ruckman.

At the moment, Gilham and Murphy are ahead of Cheney and Schoenmakers.

Besides that, great side. Rioli, Bateman and Lewis would probably be swapping with Burgoyne and Young at times to allow them to have stints in the midfield.

Not sure how I feel about Roughy going to CHB. Depends where Buddy plays.

All fair points.

Re Renouf, he no doubt improved a stack but IMO he was rarely the best ruckman on the ground durung the year and Bailey's size with Hale's maturity should see them hard to combat in the ruck and at FF.

I am not a fan of Gilham as a key defender. He struggles with the high ball and is often outbodied. He plays his best footy as a third tall for mine and I think Stratton clearly passed him in that role. Therefore I would like to see Schoey given the time to develop as a key defender, even if he gets beaten a bit, because I think he'll reach the right level quicker playing at AFL-level rather than VFL-level.

Murphy behind Cheney is purely because I think we lack pace and agression down back and my understanding is that Cheney is far better in both of those areas than Murphy.