Naitanui, Kreuzer, Clark or Ryder?

[mediumsizered]

Wow, a whole 1 year aye? That's massive.

Just face facts, Ryder started playing ruck this year after 2 years down back and he is showing more than Kruezer who started playing ruck last year, both are young, both a raw, except one thing Ryder has shown more, and that is fact.

Maybe if you take into account the ruck stats for Shaun Hampson as well, you might get a clearer picture. So far this season Carlton's ruckmen have won 423 hitouts compared to Essendon's 302 & Brisbane's 369. That is a significant difference, something that is not reflected when you look at both Ryder & Clark doing the majority of ruckwork at their respective clubs.

To do a truly accurate comparison on the basis of stats you would need to factor in the respective time on ground for each player, particularly since both Essendon & Brisbane have been playing with one ruckman each, with minor assistance from other players (in the recent Carlton/Brisbane game Brennan was credited with 1 hitout. Clark had 33 & Kreuzer & Hampson 40 between them).

 

[celtic_pride]

Wow, a whole 1 year aye? That's massive.

Just face facts, Ryder started playing ruck this year after 2 years down back and he is showing more than Kruezer who started playing ruck last year, both are young, both a raw, except one thing Ryder has shown more, and that is fact.

Patty shown more then Kruezer ???

What a load of crap that is, further proof of the arrogant and ignorant nonsense that Essendon supporters throw up, and I might add Kreuzer isn't going to be a full-time ruckman anyway, unlike Potato Patty, u might argue that Patty is going to be a better ruckman, but Kreuzer is going to be the better overall player, without question.

I'm also getting sick of Essendon fans claiming that winning the anzac day medal is some kind of signifcant achivement (it isn't ...)

 

[Hodgepodge]

Patty shown more then Kruezer ???

What a load of crap that is, further proof of the arrogant and ignorant nonsense that Essendon supporters throw up, and I might add Kreuzer isn't going to be a full-time ruckman anyway, unlike Potato Patty, u might argue that Patty is going to be a better ruckman, but Kreuzer is going to be the better overall player, without question.

I'm also getting sick of Essendon fans claiming that winning the anzac day medal is some kind of signifcant achivement (it isn't ...)

Ryder's better than Kreuzer. More hitouts, tackles, etc.

 

[Blueboys7]

Not Ryder's fault he was played as a defender. I wonder how Kreuzer would be going as a key position player right about now? I'm guessing not too well. As a ruckman he is free to roam the ground and chase possession, a much easier assignment than minding guys like Buddy Franklin and Jonathan Brown.

So Kruezer should be played at CHB? I think when Kruezer has gone forward he has shown more than enough to suggest that he can cope as a KP target. It's not Kruezer's fault we have had to play him in the ruck from day one but he has risen to the task.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I'm also getting sick of Essendon fans claiming that winning the anzac day medal is some kind of signifcant achivement (it isn't ...)

WTF... Its been brought up 3 times in this thread, once by a brisbane supporter and twice by you... Get a ****ing clue.

 

[DapperDon]

WTF... Its been brought up 3 times in this thread, once by a brisbane supporter and twice by you... Get a ****ing clue.

Don't worry about Celtic, he'll be supporting another team in a few years so take his words as worthless.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Don't worry about Celtic, he'll be supporting another team in a few years so take his words as worthless.

A few years? You're being too generous, CP switches right before the team wins a flag, I can't see him changing for at least a decade.

 

[Hodgepodge]

So Kruezer should be played at CHB?

No . . . My point was that Ryder was underperforming because he was playing in a more difficult position.

I think when Kruezer has gone forward he has shown more than enough to suggest that he can cope as a KP target.

He probably can. However it's a different thing being a full-time forward to a free-wheeling ruck who sneaks forward a few times a game.

It's not Kruezer's fault we have had to play him in the ruck from day one but he has risen to the task.

He's benefited from playing ruck from day one. It gives him a lot of freedom to run around the ground and find the ball . . . he hasn't had to worry about his direct opponent, etc.

 

[Blueboys7]

No . . . My point was that Ryder was underperforming because he was playing in a more difficult position.

And playing as a ruckman as an 18 year old with no support is easy...

He probably can. However it's a different thing being a full-time forward to a free-wheeling ruck who sneaks forward a few times a game.

What i was referring too was when he has gone forward playing as a KPF rather than 'sneaking' forward. For example the Port Adelaide game last year where he kicked 3 in a quarter.

He's benefited from playing ruck from day one. It gives him a lot of freedom to run around the ground and find the ball . . . he hasn't had to worry about his direct opponent, etc.

I agree that it gives you more freedom but to say that he hasn't had to worry about his direct opponent is a crock of shit. It's thinking like that, that lets Cox get 20-30 touches a game. A big part of being a ruckmen in this day and age is to be effective around the ground, so they need to man up on their direct opponent when it is permitted. Similiar as running off your direct opponent whilst playing in the backline.

 

[Hodgepodge]

And playing as a ruckman as an 18 year old with no support is easy...

I don't know how many games Kreuzer played as an 18 year. He was a top-aged draft pick.

What i was referring too was when he has gone forward playing as a KPF rather than 'sneaking' forward. For example the Port Adelaide game last year where he kicked 3 in a quarter.

Right, but even that was part-time. It's a different proposition when you line up as a forward every week and the opposition knows that you're lining up as a forward and they put a man to cover you.

I agree that it gives you more freedom but to say that he hasn't had to worry about his direct opponent is a crock of shit. It's thinking like that, that lets Cox get 20-30 touches a game. A big part of being a ruckmen in this day and age is to be effective around the ground, so they need to man up on their direct opponent when it is permitted. Similiar as running off your direct opponent whilst playing in the backline.

I don't see a lot of ruckmen paying much attention to their direct opponents, except when they're going up for the hitout. Cox might be different in this, because he was the best ruck the last few years, and you might get the opposition ruck following him around.

 

[Blueboys7]

I don't know how many games Kreuzer played as an 18 year. He was a top-aged draft pick.

He was still a first year player so thats pretty irrelevant, whether he was 18 or 19. Im sure you understand

Right, but even that was part-time. It's a different proposition when you line up as a forward every week and the opposition knows that you're lining up as a forward and they put a man to cover you.

So the opposition coach would be so disadvantaged to see our ruckman go forward, because he wouldnt be able think of an appropriate match up to cover him?? Common get real. Believe it or not but when he goes forward he is manned up by a defender - true story.

I don't see a lot of ruckmen paying much attention to their direct opponents, except when they're going up for the hitout. Cox might be different in this, because he was the best ruck the last few years, and you might get the opposition ruck following him around.

So your telling me that when Cox, Sandi, Hille ect. go forward or back that their direct opponent will neglect to man them up? Both ruckman generally follow the ball because they have to contest the ruck so I would suggest that they would be close to eachother a fair bit.

 

[lion4ever]

So what you Carlton fans are saying is that since Kreuzer doesn't play as long in the ruck as the other players (ok, he may get less hitouts), but shouldn't he be kicking more goals and marks since from what i know, he plays forward? About half a game in the forward line and manages an average of about half a goal a game and only a couple of marks? Strange.

Explain?

 

[mediumsizered]

I don't know how many games Kreuzer played as an 18 year. He was a top-aged draft pick.

His first 5 games with Carlton (he missed Round 1 & 2 through injury) were at the age of 18 (his birthdate being 13/5/89).

 

[mediumsizered]

So what you Carlton fans are saying is that since Kreuzer doesn't play as long in the ruck as the other players (ok, he may get less hitouts), but shouldn't he be kicking more goals and marks since from what i know, he plays forward? About half a game in the forward line and manages an average of about half a goal a game and only a couple of marks? Strange.

Explain?

He mostly rotates off the bench. Has only been pushed to the forward line for the odd quarter here & there (including the last quarter of the Port game last year when he kicked 3 goals to help us comeback from 5 goals down in the wet), but certainly doesn't look out of place playing forward.

 

[lion4ever]

He mostly rotates off the bench. Has only been pushed to the forward line for the odd quarter here & there (including the last quarter of the Port game last year when he kicked 3 goals to help us comeback from 5 goals down in the wet), but certainly doesn't look out of place playing forward.

Yeah, good shot for goal. I remember the Carlton v Adelaide game where he kicked 2 goals to sort of get you guys going. Made the most of his opportunities in front of goal so well done to him

Basicly, all 4 players will end up guns and I'm happy enough with Clark no matter what anyone says

 

[Hodgepodge]

So the opposition coach would be so disadvantaged to see our ruckman go forward, because he wouldnt be able think of an appropriate match up to cover him?? Common get real. Believe it or not but when he goes forward he is manned up by a defender - true story.

No, the opposite. If the opposition coach knows that Kreuzer plays forward, they have all week to prepare, plus they select an extra backman, etc. Plus it's harder for a player to hold down CHF for an entire year than it is to pinch-hit there.

So your telling me that when Cox, Sandi, Hille ect. go forward or back that their direct opponent will neglect to man them up? Both ruckman generally follow the ball because they have to contest the ruck so I would suggest that they would be close to eachother a fair bit.

Yeah they'd be in the vicinity of one other, but there's not a lot of tagging going on with ruckmen.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Hard to say. NicNat over Ryder and Kruezer as I see him solely as a ruckman at this stage, admittadly have not seen much of him.

I think Kruezer will become Carltons CHF, changing into the ruck behind Warnock.

Patty will still be behind Hille as first ruck, and will play in a few different spots.

Have not watched Clarke.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

HP, you disappointed with the way this thread's panned out? Kreuzer isnt coming last....

Better luck next time.

 

[Hodgepodge]

HP, you disappointed with the way this thread's panned out? Kreuzer isnt coming last....

Better luck next time.

I do not have any vested interests in the results.

 

[Tomorrows_Nobody]

Hard to say. NicNat over Ryder and Kruezer as I see him solely as a ruckman at this stage, admittadly have not seen much of him.

I think Kruezer will become Carltons CHF, changing into the ruck behind Warnock.

Patty will still be behind Hille as first ruck, and will play in a few different spots.

Have not watched Clarke.

No.
He's staying as No. 1 Ruck.
If Lucas retires this year, I'd want Hille starting in the forward line.
He will eat defenders alive.
Even Jobe admitted that, even with little time together at centre bounces, he prefers Ryder's taps and thinks that he will only improve.

 

[Winner]

No.
He's staying as No. 1 Ruck.
If Lucas retires this year, I'd want Hille starting in the forward line.
He will eat defenders alive.
Even Jobe admitted that, even with little time together at centre bounces, he prefers Ryder's taps and thinks that he will only improve.

Agree.

 

[tcwaters]

Naita.


If I put the bias part of me to the side for a moment, then I'd say.. Naita


Or maybe Rioli

 

[mpal6]

I love how Clark has stepped up for us this season. But putting my bias aside, I would say Naitanui. If he could realise his potential, in 1-2 years time WC will be back @ the top.

Cox and Naitanui. Scary.

 

[Blueboys7]

No.
He's staying as No. 1 Ruck.
If Lucas retires this year, I'd want Hille starting in the forward line.
He will eat defenders alive.
Even Jobe admitted that, even with little time together at centre bounces, he prefers Ryder's taps and thinks that he will only improve.

Surely Hille will be your number 1 ruckmen? He had a steller year last year so you would assume Hille would be first choice with Ryder being the number 2.

The beauty with Ryder is he can play anywhere, he can mop up down back, go forward as a leading target and ruck well. It makes sense that you make use of his versatility by using Hille as first choice ruckmen and then assess where the game is at, to decide where Ryder should be played.

It is in Essendon's best interest to have Hille up and running to give relief to Ryder and release him into other positions. Having said that i believe he will be given extended runs in the ruck but will not be the 1st choice ruckmen given his versatility.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

I do not have any vested interests in the results.

Lol!