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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Naitanui, Kreuzer, Clark or Ryder?
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Grimreepah
BigFooty One Armed Man
Nothing surer than Hille and Ryder swapping in the forward line next year. In particular, Hille has shown an aptitude to being a good leading and marking forward and his kicking is pretty fair in front of goal. I think Ryder is still learning his forward line craft, but he would be a match-up worry if he was to rest in the forward pocket.
Rack Watts
Here's MASON
I agree to the extent that I will be PO'd if he goes back. I think he should rotate ruck and forward with Hille 50/50.
trix17
Team Captain
i would disagree, ryder has been better than clark this year, and its only kruezers 2nd season, he will be a great ruckman throughout his career, naitanui, a freak, plain and simple. so in the long run, clark would be 4th.
right now, i would say clark is second (not by all that much) to ryder, with kruezer 3rd and nicnat 4th, but thats simply on current output. in the long run id say:
nicnat
ryder/kruezer (tough to split)
clark
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #57
You're missing the point; which is that your appraisal sounded more like a back-handed compliment.
Naitanui looks like he'll be a player.
Frankly Paddy Ryder is the most overrated player in the AFL ...
Took him at least 4 years before he actually started doing anything good at the AFL level, whereas Kruezer was actually decent/starring at times, in his first year in the AFL last year, and is just getting better and better this season ...
This question is a moot point, because eventually Carlton will play him more at CHF, once Warnock and Hampson develop more in the ruck, they will become eventually our no 1 and 2 ruckman.
People seem to forget how crap Paddy was in his first couple of seasons in the AFL, admittedly playing more at CHF, but if you compare his first 2 years with Kruezer, Carlton's no 1 draft pick is galaxies ahead of 'Paddy' and as such, has a much bigger upside.
And yeah eventually Leuenberger and Ty Vickery should be added to this poll IMHO, I'm not sure if the Lions will perist with Clark in the ruck, once Leuenberger returns and stays injury free.
Took him at least 4 years before he actually started doing anything good at the AFL level, whereas Kruezer was actually decent/starring at times, in his first year in the AFL last year, and is just getting better and better this season ...
This question is a moot point, because eventually Carlton will play him more at CHF, once Warnock and Hampson develop more in the ruck, they will become eventually our no 1 and 2 ruckman.
People seem to forget how crap Paddy was in his first couple of seasons in the AFL, admittedly playing more at CHF, but if you compare his first 2 years with Kruezer, Carlton's no 1 draft pick is galaxies ahead of 'Paddy' and as such, has a much bigger upside.
And yeah eventually Leuenberger and Ty Vickery should be added to this poll IMHO, I'm not sure if the Lions will perist with Clark in the ruck, once Leuenberger returns and stays injury free.
George Washington
Premiership Player
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- #61
Ryder started playing well as soon as he was put into the ruck. It's probably a more natural position for him to play.
- Nov 28, 2006
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You're a ****ing idiot.
Nine
Rookie
- May 20, 2009
- 49
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- Collingwood
Naitanui = promising first game and he can be anything, including nothing.
Kreuzer = played in the ruck from day one and has been crap for a number 1 pick.
Clark = is probably the best of the bunch atm. a real surprise packet and just like Ryder have proven that they can play and play WELL in any area of the ground.
Ryder = against us this year was his first full time rucking role. hes been a defender every other year where he was wasted but may benefit him in the end. in a few years he will be the best of the bunch.
atm Clark>Ryder>Kreuzer>Naitanui
future Ryder>Naitanui>Clark(i think hell end up a forward)>*********
celtic_pride ur a twat
no pride for ur own afl club?
Kreuzer = played in the ruck from day one and has been crap for a number 1 pick.
Clark = is probably the best of the bunch atm. a real surprise packet and just like Ryder have proven that they can play and play WELL in any area of the ground.
Ryder = against us this year was his first full time rucking role. hes been a defender every other year where he was wasted but may benefit him in the end. in a few years he will be the best of the bunch.
atm Clark>Ryder>Kreuzer>Naitanui
future Ryder>Naitanui>Clark(i think hell end up a forward)>*********
celtic_pride ur a twat
no pride for ur own afl club?
I know this isn't the exact question being asked, but on current form (since round 5, 2009) these are the stats for Kreuzer, Clark & Ryder. I picked round 5 because it was prodominately when Clark and Ryder became their team's main ruckman.
Kreuzer:
Kicks: 5.75
Handballs: 8.75
Marks: 2.38
Hitouts: 18.13
Tackles: 3.88
Goals: 0.63
Clark:
Kicks: 6.25
Handballs: 8.63
Marks: 5.25
Hitouts: 21.38
Tackles: 4.38
Goals: 0.25
Ryder:
Kicks: 5.14
Handballs: 8.86
Marks: 2.71
Hitouts: 23.14
Tackles: 7.00
Goals: 0.29
Based on these stats, (yes, i know they are only stats), but IMO Ryder may only just be the smallest bit of almost nothing in front of Clark while Kreuzer is trailing both by a bit. As i have stated, they are only stats so don't criticise me too badly
. *cough* Carlton supporters *cough* EDIT: Yes, it is their current form and not actually on topic but... oh well!
Tomorrows_Nobody
Senior List
Plus 1
Kruezer's first two years in the AFL have totally crapped over Patricia Ryder's first 2, nah 3 years in the AFL, and anyone who watches footy closely would agree with that ...
BTW Kruezer spends less then 50 percent of the time in most games in the ruck, are you aware of that nit -wit ...
Nick-Nat will end up the best ruckman and perhaps best overall player of the lot, but Kruezer will be the best and most effective tall/roaming foward and pinch-hitting ruckman in that lot ...
Poor old Potato Patty can only seem to play in one position, and that is ruck.
He was a total disaster as a backman, did u see him get totally destroyed last year at Phone Dome by a very average Adelaide foward, in Nick Gill ?
BTW I could have bloody beaten Josh Fraser in the Ruck on Anzac Day FFS, and i'm only 6'1, Josey Fraser is a little talent plodder, and has the heart the size of a pea, and perhaps the 2nd worst no 1 draft pick in the last 15 years (after Des Headland)
Tomorrows_Nobody
Senior List
HA Judge his career on the worst game he's ever played
And the best game Gill has played.
Ryder was played in the CHB in a full-time negating role, unfortunately, until this year.
The Walking Pimple Kreuzer would have been toweled up by Courtney Johns if he played in the back line.
Did you see poor Kreuzer get toweled up by Michael Gardiner?
Even "Patricia Ride-Her" (oh, so funny) at least broke even with both Gardiner and King.
BTW Gibbs is currently the worst No. 1 Draft pick just in front of Kreuzer.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Same with Cox and Sandilands, but I suppose Kruezer is better than them... jesus christ you're pathetic.
I know this isn't the exact question being asked, but on current form (since round 5, 2009) these are the stats for Kreuzer, Clark & Ryder. I picked round 5 because it was prodominately when Clark and Ryder became their team's main ruckman.
Kreuzer:
Kicks: 5.75
Handballs: 8.75
Marks: 2.38
Hitouts: 18.13
Tackles: 3.88
Goals: 0.63
Clark:
Kicks: 6.25
Handballs: 8.63
Marks: 5.25
Hitouts: 21.38
Tackles: 4.38
Goals: 0.25
Ryder:
Kicks: 5.14
Handballs: 8.86
Marks: 2.71
Hitouts: 23.14
Tackles: 7.00
Goals: 0.29
Based on these stats, (yes, i know they are only stats), but IMO Ryder may only just be the smallest bit of almost nothing in front of Clark while Kreuzer is trailing both by a bit. As i have stated, they are only stats so don't criticise me too badly
EDIT: Yes, it is their current form and not actually on topic but... oh well!
Comparing a ruckman who only spends around 50% of gametime as a ruckman due to rotations (Kruezer) with two other ruckmen who due to injuries have been given the opportunity/forced to ruck pretty much all game long (Clark and Ryder) is a bit silly.
Of course the latter two rucks are going to rack up bigger numbers, with more gametime on the ball.
Not to mention their respective birthdates:
Kruezer: June 89
Ryder: March 88
Clark: Oct 87
So yes, it is quite a revelation to see that Clark and Ryder, who are 1-2 years older than Kruezer and get significantly more rucktime, have slightly better numbers.
If anything, all your stats do is support those who suggest Kruezer will be better than either Clark or Ryder.
DapperDon
Yay We Suck Again
- Oct 4, 2006
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Wow, a whole 1 year aye? That's massive.
Just face facts, Ryder started playing ruck this year after 2 years down back and he is showing more than Kruezer who started playing ruck last year, both are young, both a raw, except one thing Ryder has shown more, and that is fact.
As a matter of fact, it is massive.
We are talking about 200cm guys that are still growing in height, weight and muscle definition.
You are either too young to know or too old and have forgotten
CrippsonBlue
Cancelled
Kreuzer is going to be one of our best players in a few years time. The fact that he isn't winning this poll, as well as the exclusion of Leuenberger and any other surprise packet/s (Wood, Vickery, Hampson, others I don't know, etc) says a lot about the future of ruck stocks - exciting times.
Dapper, you're being deliberately and rather foolishly simplistic.
Of course, when you're 19 years old, 1 to 2 years difference in age is significant. When you're 26 years old, not so.
The fact is, both Clark and Ryder have had two full years longer in the AFL than Kruezer, who's only been in the system for 18 months.
To think that this wouldn't make a difference (especially when comparing young talls, who invariably take a longer time to come on than other players) is folly.
So yes, Ryder has been impressive. But compare Paddy Ryder (and Mitch Clark) after 18 months in the AFL to Matt Kruezer after 18 months in the AFL, and it would be absolutely no contest whatsoever. And even the most one-eyed Carlton hater would have to acknowledge that.
Of course, when you're 19 years old, 1 to 2 years difference in age is significant. When you're 26 years old, not so.
The fact is, both Clark and Ryder have had two full years longer in the AFL than Kruezer, who's only been in the system for 18 months.
To think that this wouldn't make a difference (especially when comparing young talls, who invariably take a longer time to come on than other players) is folly.
So yes, Ryder has been impressive. But compare Paddy Ryder (and Mitch Clark) after 18 months in the AFL to Matt Kruezer after 18 months in the AFL, and it would be absolutely no contest whatsoever. And even the most one-eyed Carlton hater would have to acknowledge that.
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #75
Not Ryder's fault he was played as a defender. I wonder how Kreuzer would be going as a key position player right about now? I'm guessing not too well. As a ruckman he is free to roam the ground and chase possession, a much easier assignment than minding guys like Buddy Franklin and Jonathan Brown.
