Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[Rickee]

The stand alone VFL clubs have suffered from the increased interest of the AFL clubs, and even more since the Qld and NSW sides joined.

Results are by and large terrible, interest is down, crowds are evaporating and players are leaving for AFL aligned clubs or suburban competitions in droves already.

I don't know if an AFL supported VFA competition would work any better, but to give Port Melbourne, Willaimstown, Werribee, Coburg and Preston, as well as Box Hill, Casey and Sandringham agency in the decision to either do that, join a suburban competition or fold all together is better than the slow, agonising death that they are currently going through.

 

[Rickee]

When the reserves come in, the only chance that the old VFA has of survival is if they merge them with TAC teams, and each AFL team has an alignment with them as the third tier. It probably won't happen and this isn't overly thought through but for example:

Carlton - Preston/Northern
Collingwood - Port/Oakleigh
Essendon - Coburg/Calder
Geelong - GWV Rebels expansion
GWS - Murray expansion
Hawthorne - Box Hill/Eastern
Melbourne - Casey/Gippsland
North Melbourne - Werribee/Falcons
Richmond - Sandringham X2
St Kilda - Frankston/Dandenong
Sydney - Bendigo expansion
Western Bulldogs - Williamstown/Jets

Not ideal letting Sydney and GWS align themselves with these teams but I don't really like the alternative.

I know Sandy and St Kilda have been aligned for a long time but they make more sense to be with Richmond and Frankston with St Kilda than the other way around.

12 teams, 22 games, play everyone twice and have a top 6. How it would work:

SF1: 3 v 6
SF2: 4 v 5

QF: 1 v 2
EF: WSF1 v WSF2

PF: LQF v WEF

GF: WQF v WPF

The VFL clubs are independant entities, though. You can't just assign them to an AFL club and expect them to be OK with it, even if the club agreed it would have to go to a vote of the members and I know for a fact that nobody who calls themselves a Port Melbourne member would accept an alignment again, especially with Collingwood.

Oh, and they already tried aligning the VFA clubs with the under age competition in the 90s and it was a disasterous failure. Thats why the AFL stepped in and aligned it with the Victorian based reserves in the first place.

 

[eth-dog]

The VFL clubs are independant entities, though. You can't just assign them to an AFL club and expect them to be OK with it, even if the club agreed it would have to go to a vote of the members and I know for a fact that nobody who calls themselves a Port Melbourne member would accept an alignment again, especially with Collingwood.

Oh, and they already tried aligning the VFA clubs with the under age competition in the 90s and it was a disasterous failure. Thats why the AFL stepped in and aligned it with the Victorian based reserves in the first place.

These old VFA clubs are dying anyway. It's either that or let these OP teams join local comps (Casey, Box Hill in EFL; Frankston, Sandringham in SFL; Coburg, Preston in NFL; Port, Werribee and Williamstown in the WRFL)

Setting up an alignment program is unlikely but do you have an alternative when the AFL reserves inevitably happen?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Still want to know how having an AFL reserves comp makes that comp second tier and the other state league comps 3rd tier. No one seems to be able to explain this.
The VFL with 14 AFL reserves team in it now is no better than the WAFL and SANFL, many would say it’s below those two comps. Yet adding the Eagles, Dockers, port and the crows all of a sudden makes the VFL into this big second tier comp and the other leagues just drop a tier.
Please explain how?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The VFL clubs are independant entities, though. You can't just assign them to an AFL club and expect them to be OK with it, even if the club agreed it would have to go to a vote of the members and I know for a fact that nobody who calls themselves a Port Melbourne member would accept an alignment again, especially with Collingwood.

Oh, and they already tried aligning the VFA clubs with the under age competition in the 90s and it was a disasterous failure. Thats why the AFL stepped in and aligned it with the Victorian based reserves in the first place.

The other factor is they might not have a choice. Port and Willy might be alright. Perhaps Werribee and Frankston, though they’re hardly flush. The Bullants and Coburg are on the bones of their arse. The Springvale Scorpions are gone, they’re now the Casey Demons and purely a reserves team. Box Hill and Sandringham would be dead without their alignments.

So unless Port and Willy want to have a two team league, they might have to accept whatever compromised system is the outcome.

 

[eth-dog]

The other factor is they might not have a choice. Port and Willy might be alright. Perhaps Werribee and Frankston, though they’re hardly flush. The Bullants and Coburg are on the bones of their arse. The Springvale Scorpions are gone, they’re now the Casey Demons and purely a reserves team. Box Hill and Sandringham would be dead without their alignments.

So unless Port and Willy want to have a two team league, they might have to accept whatever compromised system is the outcome.

I think you underestimate Sandy tbh.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think you underestimate Sandy tbh.

Yep possibly. Fact of the matter is there isn’t enough of them to build a sustainable standalone league. They can either be AFL reserves, or some sort of development pathway league propped up by the AFL, which the AFL would probably impose some sort of rules on (like it being an under 23 league, or something).

There isn’t really a third option.

 

[Coolangatta]

Hmm, yeah, I'd have to say I prefer that the AFL reserves clubs didn't exist at all so the state leagues would be proper second-tier. Invest more into them instead.

All 18 clubs get one affiliate each (though I still think it'd be a good idea for the QLD and NSW affiliates to be competing in the VFL, but it seems like Southport is the only club good enough to compete in the AFL that isn't a reserves side).

 

[marcmurphy3]

One simple way to do it might be to remove Bullants, Coburg, Frankston who aren't equipped to compete at the level anyway. Add the 2 WA and SA reserves teams. Then you have 22 teams. Everyone plays each other once with fixtures and byes aligned to the afl schedule. Call it AFL Division 2.

That way you retain the powerful VFL sides, have a better fixture and include the SA + WA sides without having to many teams.

Will be a bit more travel but not a heap given there are currently NSW and QLD teams anyway. Aside from that and a better fixture without the uncompetitive sides, itll be pretty much the same.

 

[HBFlanker]

Big yes.

VFL in its current format is a disgrace. Coburg and Preston just getting fed to the wolves.

AFL
National reserve comp
State leagues
Local Footy

Thats the pyramid. As it should be.

I think you will actually find more players drafted out of VFL/SANFL/WAFL if there are no AFL Listed players to compete with. Youll get the late maturers from the Under 18s going to play State league footy and being able to actually show their talents.

Aligned, Partially aligned, Stand alone. Its just not a level playing field.

 

[WillHayward]

I like this, would love a Canberra side to jump on

The Canberra Campaigners.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Big yes.

VFL in its current format is a disgrace. Coburg and Preston just getting fed to the wolves.

AFL
National reserve comp
State leagues
Local Footy

Thats the pyramid. As it should be.

I think you will actually find more players drafted out of VFL/SANFL/WAFL if there are no AFL Listed players to compete with. Youll get the late maturers from the Under 18s going to play State league footy and being able to actually show their talents.

Aligned, Partially aligned, Stand alone. Its just not a level playing field.

Still don’t get how AFL reserves will be the second tier? Just because you got drafted does not make you a good footballer. AFL reserves is a kids comp. Will probably actually be about third tier footy at best.
Yes the AFL would call it second tier but come on, it’s colts footy at best.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Why would any seasoned player who is 25 and over want to join a league that has snubbed them for years just help younger players develop and play in a side that winning is of No importance?

The ones who want to play AFL or just play at the highest level they can still will play reserves.

The others will go to ammos for more money and jobs.

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[Enviable Tradition]

Yes please. F the SANFL. couldnt care if the SANFL folds after watching rules they’ve put around Adelaide and PA as well as the blatant cheating to ensure they can’t win a flag at that level. The SANFL has brought its demise on itself.

Pretty much this.

The old cronies at the SANFL have caused their own demise with the massive chips on their shoulders.

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[Enviable Tradition]

There is a strange irony of Port wanting the leave the only place where they’re the magpies.

Not really.

Port has been focused in the prison bars the whole time and have said numerous times they aren't trying to be the Magpies in the AFL.

Only Eddie keeps trying to claim we are.

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[Geoffa32]

Yes. It makes sense.

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[HBFlanker]

Still don’t get how AFL reserves will be the second tier? Just because you got drafted does not make you a good footballer. AFL reserves is a kids comp. Will probably actually be about third tier footy at best.
Yes the AFL would call it second tier but come on, it’s colts footy at best.

Its a good point. I probably agree with you that some state leagues (WAFL and SANFL in particular) would be better than AF reserves, no question.

The AFL would want it as an optics thing that the reserves comp is of a higher level than state league, when in actual fact it wouldnt be.

The bottom tier of the VFL is appalling. I could name half a dozen local metropolitan senior teams that would beat the Bullants and Coburg.

 

[Percel]

The Canberra Campaigners.

Very apt in my work area

 

[Bianconeri]

Not really.

Port has been focused in the prison bars the whole time and have said numerous times they aren't trying to be the Magpies in the AFL.

Only Eddie keeps trying to claim we are.

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If that was the case your club would try to incorporate teal in the prison bars.

 

[tiger_tough]

I like the idea of 18 reserves sides + the 5 best state league sides in one comp. Play each team once. State league teams have a relegation/promotion system to keep them honest.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I like the idea of 18 reserves sides + the 5 best state league sides in one comp. Play each team once. State league teams have a relegation/promotion system to keep them honest.

So get the best state league clubs to leave their serious comp to go and play in the devlopment and training comp where no one cares about winning the comp.

AFL reserves don't even need to be playing in a comp, they just need to play hit outs every weekend.

 

[tiger_tough]

So get the best state league clubs to leave their serious comp to go and play in the devlopment and training comp where no one cares about winning the comp.

AFL reserves don't even need to be playing in a comp, they just need to play hit outs every weekend.

Incentivize it. Have it tied into the MccLelland trophy or a big prize for the premier and have a separate sizeable bonus for the highest place state league team. Cash in king.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Incentivize it. Have it tied into the MccLelland trophy or a big prize for the premier and have a separate sizeable bonus for the highest place state league team. Cash in king.

Why waste money, invest the money in real second tier footy. AFL clubs don't need anymore money invested in them.
A National reserves comp won't make an ounce of difference to any AFL club, it won't be played before AFL games.
That people think it is going to be like the old days when reserves were real teams trying to win the reserves flag for their club.

It's a huge waste of money and resources. Therefor logically that is the case the AFL will do it. lol

 

[tiger_tough]

Why waste money, invest the money in real second tier footy. AFL clubs don't need anymore money invested in them.
A National reserves comp won't make an ounce of difference to any AFL club, it won't be played before AFL games.
That people think it is going to be like the old days when reserves were real teams trying to win the reserves flag for their club.

It's a huge waste of money and resources. Therefor logically that is the case the AFL will do it. lol

I disagree, I think it would be great for the development of the youngsters. Plus larger list sizes can only be a good thing for kids aspiring to make it to the AFL.

I'd rather money be pumped into the clubs and players than going to the AFL and its execs pockets.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I disagree, I think it would be great for the development of the youngsters. Plus larger list sizes can only be a good thing for kids aspiring to make it to the AFL.

I'd rather money be pumped into the clubs and players than going to the AFL and its execs pockets.

The youngsters are getting developed now and they would be better developed playing in a serious footy comp like the SANFL or the WAFL.
AFL lists already have 8-10 players on their list that struggle to play league at second tier level now. Adding to that is wasting money.

Good footballers have always and will always make it, we are wasting way to much money on potential.