Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[Altum Volantes]

They did nothing of the sort.
Since the WCE inception the Eagles have done the following.

1) Spread players across all clubs (won 3 flags) - Were not happy so dumped it.
2) Went into an alignment - were not happy so dumped it.
3) Had a host club arrangement - Were not happy so dumped it
4) Went back to the alignment - Again not happy so it got dumped.
5) Stand alone side - Not happy again so sooked and asked for more concessions. Got given more concessions then sooked some more and has again applied for more concessions. And again the WAFL clubs have agreed.

Never once looking within to see if the real problem is the actual West Coast Eagles themselves. They are the common denominator.
There football program is miles behind every other AFL club and if it was up to scratch they would not of got the injuries they got and they would not of been so uncompetitive in the WAFL.

Sometimes the hardest thing in the world is to look within and realise you are the problem. Unfortunately the Eagles still like to blame everyone else instead of their own short comings.

Blame the WAFL all you like but it's the WCE that are the problem and they have been for decades.

I’m sure both sides of this argument will point the finger at the other.

That’s why the prospect of a National comp is great news for all - The Eagles won’t have to deal with the WAFL and the WAFL/the clubs, who have never really got their heads around the Eagles being a thing (for nearly 40 years…), will no longer have to accommodate the top tier of the sport.

I just hope it’s a nice clean break.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Wouldn't be great for Port, Willy and Werribee

They can go back to playing in the ‘local’ league surely?

The VF-whatever they like.

 

[JohnZ]

The English system doesn’t work, because it entrenches inequality.

Soccer can get away with this, because it’s such a low scoring game that upsets happen on a regular basis.

Watching a recently promoted side get pummelled by 30 goals every week in the state league… no thanks.

100% agree wth you. Promoting and relegating amateur clubs is never going to work here.

24 AFL funded teams across 2 divisions would work. Same salary cap, same soft cap spend, equal access to all the fixturing spots (prime time etc).

Developing teams like the GC and Freo get to play competitive matches every week rather than getting belted every 2nd week. Because the spread is 12 teams instead of 18 (currently), you get more even and tight margin games across the board. 1v18 is a shocking game to watch, I don't want to be watching 1v20 or 1v24.

Edit: A 12 comp division allows for a full H+A season over 22 games. Just like the good old days.

 

[adammania9]

The english system of every club in the country being in the system? Yea nah it would never work.

A fixed two division comp of 12 teams each with their own AFL, AFL Reserves, AFLW teams would work. Bottom 4 Div 1 get relegated, Top 4 Div 2 get promoted each year. The focus of the reserves should be players under 22/25 with development being the #1 goal. Reserves play based on the seniors fixture (including finals, but play no Granny). Div 1 plays a top 5 finals series and Div 2 plays a top 4 finals series with each crowning a premier (the Div2 GF played the week before the Div1 GF).

We currently have 18 teams, adding six:
1. Hobart
2. Deadlys (NT and NQLD, but based in Darwin)
3. Canberra
4. Auckland
5. SA3
6. WA3

Three teams in WA and one in Auckland gives immense flexibility in scheduling, however with 12 games to fit in a weekend, we're gonna have to get creative

Thur 7.30pm

Friday Night x2 (NZ/East Coast or East Coast/Perth Double Header)
5pm/7.30pm or
7.30pm/10pm

Sat 12pm
Sat 2.30pm
Sat 5pm
Sat 7.30pm

Sun 12pm
Sun 2.30pm
Sun 5pm
Sun 7.30pm

Mon 7.30pm

There's 12 games with no overlap. Some of the timeslots are s**t for the fans, but built for TV (and V.v)

So let's create 5 clubs out of thin air that will be terrible in order to justify splitting the league into two, which will have massive ramifications on the future of smaller AFL clubs and leave our league even more lopsided than you suggest it currently is?

You're having a laugh if you think Davies-Uniacke, Sheezel, Larkey etc would hang around at North Melbourne to finish 5th or 6th in division two of the AFL. Premier League and Championship players do not earn the same, and they won't earn the same in a two division AFL.

You're also massively underestimating the ability of teams to regenerate quickly and win a premiership. In your system, a Collingwood side that came 1 point off a grand final in 2022, would have had to have played in division two instead because they finished 17th the previous year. GWS do not experience a similar result following a finish of 16th in 2022. These high quality sides would rot in division two instead.

 

[glengowan]

Yes for an AFL Reserves Competition.

BUT - it should be an extension of the U18 competition. That is, developing young players. All top up players should be u21 and from the same State as their AFL club. Gold Coast gets NT and GWS gets ACT.

Reduce main AFL list size to 32.

Top up or Rookie List of 24. Therefore, 8 players per draft on three year, part-time contracts straight out of the Under 18 competition. They are provided assistance from their AFL club in beginning and completing degrees/courses/trades outside of football whilst simultaneously developing their football in a professional environment. They remain linked to their State League side to play either State League or Reserves if not picked in either the AFL or AFL Reserves side.

To ensure the 2nd Tier State Leagues, the VFL, SANFL and WAFL remain strong and continue to provide a pathway to AFL football and to improve the fall-back for players who miss out on an AFL contract on a main list, the best players above the age of 21 should be encouraged to play in these competitions, with the AFL providing marketing and with the saving of reduction of wages paid to players by having a main list of 32, a salary cap of $800,000 should be provided to each of the 19 Rookie List Squads and each of the 27 State League clubs in the VFL, SANFL and WAFL to provide a reasonable supplementary income for the effort required.

This in turn provides more opportunities and incentives for footballers to get the best out of themselves at all levels and a softer landing for those who put in everything to make it at the top level, but don't succeed. The best 600 odd footballers who make it on the main list of 32 are still rewarded extremely well financially for making it.

 

[Bianconeri]

The English system doesn’t work, because it entrenches inequality.

Soccer can get away with this, because it’s such a low scoring game that upsets happen on a regular basis.

Watching a recently promoted side get pummelled by 30 goals every week in the state league… no thanks.

Soccer gets away with it because of the culture as well. The community put its support around their team regardless of the division.

 

[Section 5]

I saw Kochies comments about the rules placed on them. What are they exactly?

There is not much money to spread around in the VFL competition.
Airfares alone especially for interstate clubs would be huge, maybe the AFL pay something?
The link below states some of the present rules that Kochie would be aware of.

The players who are on an AFL contract are excluded from this salary cap mentioned in the article.
These figures were for 2022 not sure if they increased for 2023.
......................

"The salary cap has been increased from $200,000 to $220,000 for VFL standalone clubs and from $100,000 to $110,000 for the AFL and AFL-aligned outfits, with a key concession added in a bid to encourage senior experienced players to remain in the competition and develop their coaching skills."

More money, more matches, more opportunity: VFL changes for 2022

Salary cap increase and an extra two games headline hopes for a return to normal next year

www.afl.com.au

 

[marcus1232]

There is not much money to spread around in the VFL competition.
Airfares alone especially for interstate clubs would be huge, maybe the AFL pay something?
The link below states some of the present rules that Kochie would be aware of.

The players who are on an AFL contract are excluded from this salary cap mentioned in the article.
These figures were for 2022 not sure if they increased for 2023.
......................

"The salary cap has been increased from $200,000 to $220,000 for VFL standalone clubs and from $100,000 to $110,000 for the AFL and AFL-aligned outfits, with a key concession added in a bid to encourage senior experienced players to remain in the competition and develop their coaching skills."

More money, more matches, more opportunity: VFL changes for 2022

Salary cap increase and an extra two games headline hopes for a return to normal next year

www.afl.com.au

The thing is that the VFL salary caps would be heavily scrutinized also.
Where as local teams are often paying double that off the books and are rarely audited.

I am sure its commonplace all over VIC but where i am there are multiple teams paying multiple players anywhere up to 4-5 grand a game.
If your a gun player but not AFL listed or on the radar there is 0 incentive to go play VFL i cant speak for other states.

Basically the AFL is going to have to increase the salary cap for this to work in todays environment

 

[Kappa]

VFL is a joke of a competition.

National reserves makes total sense

 

[Redline]

One thing I would do is not bother with a big finals series. Clubs don't want it if the Senior team is out and if they make it they can organise practice games against other club reserves that are still alive like they do now.

I'd go as far as to play the minor round and then a straight 1v2 in the bye week before the AFL finals. At a stretch play finals in the bye week and the GF in the first week of finals.

 

[tiger_tough]

The VFL fixturing is absolutely atrocious. Like pathetic.

 

[Coach_Required]

Some people are sentimental to history, as much as you might hate the idea, it makes sense. Teams need more than 23 players on their list due to injuries, form etc so there will always be a dozen or so players who need to develop and fit within the senior team's ideals and structures.

What it means for the other competitions around Australia doesn't seem great atm but perhaps this is where the AFL need to step in and show some actual ownership. Re-align the states comps, support them with decent funding so they can fully support not just the AFL teams and reserves but their own competitions.

State teams are struggling financially, the revenue isn't what it used to be, so they need long term security. They still play a vital role to the AFL though; they are comps that keep players in the system whether they are young or mature age so the AFL could really use this opportunity to make the game even stronger.

How the State comps look will depend on what the reserve teams look like, will mature aged players make up the numbers? I would think that makes more sense to me. Give the state comps a purpose, let them develop younger players, those who don't get drafted could spend 4, 5 or even 6 years in these leagues, AFL clubs have the draft and midseason draft to stock up on kids, dont go cutting the state leagues knees off even further taking these kids and then discarding them after a year or 2.

There is a real opportunity to restructure the competitions australia wide so it works out for all.

 

[Feraligatr]

My opinion on this completely lies on how it effects Werribee.

 

[marcmurphy3]

The VFL fixturing is absolutely atrocious. Like pathetic.

Yep. So many byes too.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If anything this means Port Adelaide's SANFL flags officially count for zilch in the big/elite tier of the comp (but we all knew that already)

 

[Coach_Required]

If anything this means Port Adelaide's SANFL flags officially count for zilch in the big/elite tier of the comp (but we all knew that already)

Not if you speak to Geelong

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Won’t the new AFL Reserves completion, mean that good VFL, SANFL and the WAFL players will now seek to join it to maximise the chances of playing AFL?

That would depend very much on how contracts are arranged, etc. Would the regular list be expanded, and the guaranteed minimum salary that attracts, or would there be a secondary "reserves only" list which would not attract as much money and really only be likely to appeal to younger players or mid-tier state league players who wouldn't get paid as much as the leading player at a SANFL or WAFL club.
At least the state leagues would be free of the current bastardised set-up, that mean some teams are competing to win a flag and others are not. The VFL in particular is barely a competition its so compromised with clubs and players there for different reasons, and top-ups pulled from other leagues all over the place depending on AFL injury status.
The "aligned" clubs would face big problems though, as has been seen where their operations were basically taken over by their AFL overlord, and unceremoniously dumped when that club decided to field a team of its own. Most either went out of existence or are failing, struggling to win against any side other than another club that also lost its alignment. The newly scorned state clubs would need assistance from the "custodians of the game" (not just of the league) but are highly unlikely to get any.

 

[peetoo]

The 1st question which comes to mind is how are they going to pay for it?

It's going to be very expensive flying teams around the country and might be cost prohibitive.

So just five years after ‘mortal danger’ for the league, pay cuts all round, their is such extravagance no problem apparently.

 

[peetoo]

There is a strange irony of Port wanting the leave the only place where they’re the magpies.

Can they actualll stay on topic and not let the prison bar ‘surprise’ out till the last minute?

 

[Mentallo]

From a VFL perspective there are probably enough very strong suburban sides that could join the likes of Willy,Werribee etc and form a new 10 or 12 team VFL comp, whether they would want to leave there current local leagues and risk this I am not so sure.

National comp make total sense though something mates and I have spoken about for a few years now and has always seemed an inevitability.

 

[peetoo]

Maybe actual ‘curtain raisers which people apparently want, but not enough to attend inn numbers though

 

[eth-dog]

It's inevitable.

 

[Bianconeri]

Maybe actual ‘curtain raisers which people apparently want, but not enough to attend inn numbers though

Would prefer them after so the hold over emergencies can play

 

[Pie thon]

I like the idea of a national reserves competition, i remember as a kid in the 90s that if we got to the game early enough, you could catch the reserve team playing. I also like the idea of the reserves playing the grand final as well as a curtain raiser on grand final day, i remember North Melbourne winning both the reserves and senior team premierships in 1996 on TV.
There might be a bit more money on food and beverage sales at the ground with people turning up earlier, and add to the attendance a bit more. Probably a bit more money in TV rights. I think all of that could cover the extra cost.
Lists might need to be a bit more bigger. And clubs would need some sort of affiliate club to top up their reserve teams numbers when there are injuries. The VFL only recently had their own reserves team. I remember AFL listed Brent MacCaffer was playing in the VFL reserves team, kicking a few goals a game, and thinking this guys has to then break into the VFL senior team, then work his way up again to get called up to the AFL team. Thats going to be too much, but then he broke into the 2010 AFL team and won a premiership, and famously tagged Cotchin completely out of a game a few years later.

As for the VFL, maybe it could merge into division 1 of the amateur league, as that league is dispersed all over Melbourne just like the VFL.

 

[Engimal v3]

Won’t the new AFL Reserves completion, mean that good VFL, SANFL and the WAFL players will now seek to join it to maximise the chances of playing AFL?

Depends on the pay. There's a bunch of good footy players in Tassie that choose to play country footy instead of in the state league because they get paid more and the travel expectation is far less.