NBA Draft system seems better.

[Marcel Proust]

100% wrong.

its not wrong. teams still tank but the less chance of being successful due to the lottery system

only in the last year or two the nba changed to lottery to make it harder for the lowest teams to get pick 1 - for example now the bottom 3 have a equal chance of pick1

 

[WillieNillie]

100% wrong.

Minimally less but still less I think

The concept of tanking in NBA becomes more about desire then the idea of losing for draft position. Its much more mentally draining then AFL

 

[TigerKnights]

Is there any point a fixing the draft unless it is in concert with FA, and all the other recruiting and retention tools for that matter. The whole shebang should be under one umbrella otherwise we end up with this hodge podge of tinkering around the edges.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Amazing how often one of the bigger clubs won the NBA lottery.

Far too dodgy for my liking.

Powerhouses like Cleveland, New Orleans the LA clippers and Orlando? While New York/Lakers/Boston/Rockets have a combined 2

 

[quotemokc]

Auction draft is the solution.

We already have bidding for FS

 

[BF Tiger]

Next minute... draft lottery is done in camera and Gil just tells us the result.

 

[Freomaniac]

I remember in the 1996 NBA draft, Allen Iverson was pick 1 and was given 3 million a year for 3 years. Now days, the number 1 pick in 2019, would be on 3 years at 5 million a year

 

[frenchconnection]

Don't they also pool all the profits from each club, then distribute them evenly back amongst all the clubs?

That's not a good idea as the bottom Clubs could just be lazy and sit on their laurels knowing the more successful Clubs will see them right. There are Clubs that have good administration and others who don't - why should those who do prop us those who don't. The AFL by taxing the more successful Clubs do this to a point now but certainly don't believe the top Clubs should prop up the less successful Clubs financially - that is up to the AFL hierarchy.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

100% wrong.

I would say that there is quite comfortably still more tanking in the NBA. Yes it doesn't guarantee you the #1 pick, but even getting a 5% better chance at winning the #1 pick in a year where someone like Zion Williamson is available is often considered a sensible move. You read some weird things about a player who has taken like two three point attempts in his career all of a sudden firing off ten in the second half of a meaningless loss in April.

It happens more, they're probably more blatant about it and the supporters seem to be more understanding.

Philadelphia made no bones about building through the draft and not placing an emphasis on winning for about 4-5 years straight. They picked a surprise rookie of the year in 2013 at pick #11 and promptly traded him halfway through his second season when it became apparent that he was a good player, but not a franchise player. In the NBA, being in the middle of the pack is the equivalent of no man's land: teams would rather clear cap room and stink for a few years rather than have a loaded salary cap and just be a good 45-50 win team every year.

All that tanking got the 76ers two #1 picks (in back to back years): Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz, the latter after they already had a decent team and who ultimately was a huge disappointment in Philadelphia. If they could have picked a year during their tanking era where they absolutely wanted the #1 pick it would have probably been Simmons in 2016.

Now the AFL. Was Gold Coast tanking last year? Most seem to think it was a miracle that Dew coaxed three wins (and largely competitive losses) out of that bunch of misfits. Was Melbourne tanking right out of the blocks, after their best season in nearly 20 years? Was Carlton tanking? Sydney? North Melbourne? St Kilda?

Show me a team who was clearly not trying to win games last year and then we can talk about a revamped draft system.

 

[Dr Awkward]

Tanking is not that big an issue in AFL. There isn't that much evidence that it happens often, just a few isolated cases.

Even if it does happen, it will only be for a couple of games, not three quarters of a season like in the NBA. Don't need any knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Freomaniac]

As far as taking goes? Is getting a top 5 pick going to change a whole side around instantly? no

looking at how freo has traded a top 5 pick....

Sometimes finishing 14th with picks 5 and 41 isnt a bad deal, but if you look at the 8th placed side that has picks 11, 29 and 47.

Some times its worth the risk trading picks 5 and 41 for 11, 27 and 43.


I still stick to that belief that Freo in 2018, tanked their last 2 games of the AFL season to get pick 5......Well it was pick 6 because Gold coast suns got pick 3 for the Thomas Lynch compo pick. But we finished below the Dogs by % that year.

Then they traded pick 6 and that 2019 3rd rounder for picks 11, 23, 30 and 49. I cant blame Port for doing that, Port Really wanted Connor Rozee in that draft.

 

[the harry]

Some things I like about the nba vs afl, for starters;

* supermax contracts; giving incentives to the teams drafting future star players, to pay more money than other teams are allowed, to retain that player. See Larry Bird / Bird rule.

* no free agency compo. your compo is cap space and trying to find FAs in the next couple years -this doesnt screw other teams over that are focusing on the draft but having the league create new draft picks, sending them down the order

* draft lottery, less tanking. way more interesting - for example NOLA losing AD but being very lucky getting pick 1 / Zion via the lottery system

Pels tanked. They sat their best player and only lost one of their last few games when their coach called a time out with none left so the other team had free throws.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Pels tanked. They sat their best player and only lost one of their last few games when their coach called a time out with none left so the other team had free throws.

they didnt tank they wanted to stop playing AD because he requested a trade or said he wont stay long term - thats not quite the same thing IMO. fair enough decision from the team

and the nba forced NOLA to play AD... im not saying the nba is a perfect administration

NOLA still had a very low chance of getting pick 1 - 8th best chance or something iirc

 

[thecatattack]

* supermax contracts; giving incentives to the teams drafting future star players, to pay more money than other teams are allowed, to retain that player. See Larry Bird / Bird rule.

The supermax is pretty bad.

CP3 negotiated 100% for his own benefit and no one else's and now it's crippling teams.

You either offer the player the supermax and cripple your salary cap or don't offer it and risk the player leaving for another team.

Very rarely will the player who's eligible for a supermax be worth the contract.

 

[Pessimistic]

Auction draft is the solution.

We already have bidding for FS

I think we are ready. Use technology

 

[Marcel Proust]

The supermax is pretty bad.

CP3 negotiated 100% for his own benefit and no one else's and now it's crippling teams.

You either offer the player the supermax and cripple your salary cap or don't offer it and risk the player leaving for another team.

cp3 is/was the players association head and worked closly with the latest bargaining agreement rules and i think has some sort of law background that was a bit of an aberration

but yes the trade and sign thing is weird. once again, american sports are very strange but the lottery and no compo FA has upside i think - better to the current afl model

Very rarely will the player who's eligible for a supermax be worth the contract.

no one for example forced the sixers to give simmons 250 million dollars

 

[Freomaniac]

cp3 is/was the players association head and worked closly with the latest bargaining agreement rules and i think has some sort of law background that was a bit of an aberration

but yes the trade and sign thing is weird. once again, american sports are very strange but the lottery and no compo FA has upside i think - better to the current afl model



no one for example forced the sixers to give simmons 250 million dollars

no one forced Kevin garnett to sign a 6 year deal at 20 million a year to stay at Minnesota timber wolves either

 

[thecatattack]

cp3 is/was the players association head and worked closly with the latest bargaining agreement rules and i think has some sort of law background that was a bit of an aberration





no one for example forced the sixers to give simmons 250 million dollars

Yes, I understand what CP3 does. That's why I'm blaming him.

The supermax forced them to pay it. Either pay it or let him walk. Great options, pay him a shit ton of your cap or let an amazing young prospect walk.

 

[Wallaby]

The only problem with 'Worst side gets the #1 pick' is - as always - the fact that we have a seriously unbalanced draw.

Who you double up against is important. Who you play interstate is important (eg - a vic sides 5 interstate games in 2019 may have been Port, Freo, Adelaide, GC and Sydney - another side may have got WC, GWS and Brissy in theirs).

Then because we only play 22 games, it's almost inevitable that sides are only going to be separated on percentage - what if you got lucky and played a weak side, on a sunny day, with them having injuries and gave your %age a nice boost? Good if going for Top 8 - bad if aiming for #1 draft pick.

Maybe some 'grouping' of teams to then have a mini-lottery. For example, this year, Hawthorn, Port, Adelaide and North finished almost level (10 or 11 wins) and near identical %ages. Can anyone really say who was better or worse, considering how different their fixtures were?

 

[Wojcinski]

Tanking is celebrated and encouraged by the fans and media in the NBA. Teams often trade out their good players mid-year once they realise playoffs won't happen and play scrubs for the second half of the season.

It results in teams like the 76ers who in around 2012 traded out all of their starting 5 (Iguodala, Thad Young, Jrue Holiday, Even Turner) for next to nothing, which started 'The Process' which saw them win only 75 games in 4 seasons (out of 328) including a 10 win season. But it gave them access to some very high draft picks which netted them Embiid and Simmons who are both All Stars.

Now they're one of the powerhouses of their conference. They tank very well over there.

 

[HTT]

Tanking is a non issue. Teams won’t sacrifice culture for a slightly higher pick. The old incentive to tank was the guaranteed priority pick for winning less than 4 games or whatever it was. The difference between pick 1 alone, and picks 1 and 2, was just one win. Now it’s 5 years of ineptitude.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Even the brightest prospects aren't guaranteed in the AFL. What can you be sure of from Matt Rowell, barring injury? Well, probably that he'll be a 200 game player. Nothing more than that. He could be a lot better, but he may not be. And if you're taking key forward at #1, there are no guarantees at all.