Stupid idea. End thread.
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Need for a lower league
- Thread starter Kreuzerlenko
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Now first of all this isn't a thread wanting to conform to the standards of other sports/leagues out there, its simply an opinion which I believe would be shared by many. Whether or not a thread on this has been made already is irrelevant, I haven't seen it therefore it doesn't exist
Anyway, in the Premier league, the bottom 2 teams get sent to a lower league and the top 2 teams of that league get promoted to the Premier league. This is how it should work. What incentive do teams in the AFL have for not finishing bottom 2? Oh wait, priority picks and top draft picks? No, doesn't sound right.
It trivialises the whole contest and gives teams an excuse for poor performance. IT ISN'T SPORT!
first of all three teams get relegated not 2
- Jul 11, 2007
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- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
Now first of all this isn't a thread wanting to conform to the standards of other sports/leagues out there, its simply an opinion which I believe would be shared by many. Whether or not a thread on this has been made already is irrelevant, I haven't seen it therefore it doesn't exist
Anyway, in the Premier league, the bottom 2 teams get sent to a lower league and the top 2 teams of that league get promoted to the Premier league. This is how it should work. What incentive do teams in the AFL have for not finishing bottom 2? Oh wait, priority picks and top draft picks? No, doesn't sound right.
It trivialises the whole contest and gives teams an excuse for poor performance. IT ISN'T SPORT!
In a perfect world, it would be a fantastic idea in my opinion.
you are a idiot. what gives you that idea?
there are both troubles with having a relegation system in this country as many posters have pointed out, but I also agree that we can't keep adding teams to a competition which already possesses inequities. Melbourne teams don't travel as much as the non-Melbourne teams for example.
All the speculation that goes on here is good and well, but I would love to know what the AFL's long term plans are for the competition. THIS, I believe IMHO, is the root cause of all of the speculation and resulting bickering that takes place.
There is no transparency with the AFL, and looking at issues such as the compromised draft with GC and West Sydney teams, the existing teams have effectively lost their primary source of refreshing their playing lists with the best young players really being shared amongst all teams.
A good thread, maybe not the panacea to the AFL's issues, but sparking adequate debate amongst some of the key AFL stakeholders: the members and fans!!!
Redeye Rambler
Team Captain
Teams that were relegated would struggle to find income (especially sponsers and members) and would have severe financial problems and be unable to keep quality players. We would get a situation where the bottom 4 or 5 teams in the afl would spend years in the "lower" league and over the long term would be uncompetitive.
If we ever get into a situation where the "second level" football league (such as a reserve league) was almost to the same level, in terms of support and player ability, as the AFL, there may be a stronger case for AFL divisions.
If we ever get into a situation where the "second level" football league (such as a reserve league) was almost to the same level, in terms of support and player ability, as the AFL, there may be a stronger case for AFL divisions.
- Sep 22, 2008
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- #33
How does the Youth Academy work?
You buggers struggling that hard for flags???Now first of all this isn't a thread wanting to conform to the standards of other sports/leagues out there, its simply an opinion which I believe would be shared by many. Whether or not a thread on this has been made already is irrelevant, I haven't seen it therefore it doesn't exist
Anyway, in the Premier league, the bottom 2 teams get sent to a lower league and the top 2 teams of that league get promoted to the Premier league. This is how it should work. What incentive do teams in the AFL have for not finishing bottom 2? Oh wait, priority picks and top draft picks? No, doesn't sound right.
It trivialises the whole contest and gives teams an excuse for poor performance. IT ISN'T SPORT!
The problem is the $$$ issue.
To run a nation-wide lower league would cost bucketloads.
Given a couple of VFL clubs (yours and ours for starters) can't make a buck in a state comp... will not work extending that nationally.
The AFL model (draft etc) is closer to the American (NBA/MLB/NFL) franchise model than the English FA tiered league system. How would you work out a draft with a 2nd divvie? Number 1 picks going to the bottom team of the 2nd div? Yeah I'd be overjoyed with that.
In the soccer world... clubs will have not only Reserves & U18s but extend that to U14 U12 etc etc.
Would end up with a return to the "bad" (they worked for us!) old days, big money = best kids = flags.
Death knell for Melbourne/North, great for Pies/Eagles/Crows/EFC.
The introduction of promotion and relegation was a success for the VFA when it was introduced in the 60s, leading it to its best attendances over the next two decades.
It was really the VFL moving to a national competition, and increased TV exposure that lead to declining interest in the VFA.
It solves the problem of teams having nothing to play for.
We're almost certainly going to go to 20 teams in the next ten years. That means that all teams are playing for one premiership. By the middle of the season, half those teams will know that they are out of contention, with nothing to play for.
If there was promotion and relegation with two 10 team divisions (forgetting any logistical issues with how it would actually work), this would mean that the teams at the top of the first division are playing for the finals double chance, the middle rung of the first division are playing for the finals, the bottom rung of the first division are playing to avoid relegation, the top of the second division are playing for a second division trophy and promotion, while the middle rung are trying to get into the finals with maybe a chance of promotion.
This would go up right to the end of the season.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Good idea, but lets make it retrospective and relegate Carlton, Melbourne & Richmond
Never have the the top 50% of teams (currently the top 8) been settled beyond doubt by round 11. Maybe 4 are obviously out of it but the rest are theoretical chances to still make it. Once you are in the finals then your a chance for a flag and that's something to play for IMO.
So, the benefit of giving those bottom 4 teams something "to play for" in the last 11 rounds is dwarfed by massive costs of a promotion/relegation system as many posters have already pointed out.
ie, it's not worth it .. just live with the bottom teams looking toward next year.
The same teams will rotate in and out of divs 1 and 2 and they'll forever be at a disadvantage to the best 16 teams out of a 20 team league.
If nothing else, there's no way the AFL would risk not having Collingwood in Div 1 every year.
It'll solve a lot of problems for the lower division side, they'll fall over financially in 3 years and not have anything to worry about.
As long as we don't actually have to worry about how it actually works, it's a good idea. Terrific logic
All the AFL needs to do to destroy the carrot for tanking is to award the priority pick when a team first becomes mathematically incapable of making finals, rather than it going down to the wire as a prize for last place which can (and often is) played for.
lloydy_loinchop
Senior List
But on the contrary...
Issue: Teams have nothing to play for towards end of season and tanking occurs
Solutions: provide something for teams to play for (2nd div trophy) or find a better system to award priority pick.
Considerations: 2 completely separate divisions apparently hard to run due to lower television ratings, less interest, lower attendances, sponsors, etc.
SO...
I believe this can be fixed with a 2 division system, where it is still possible for 2nd division teams to win the premiership... Here's how:
Div 1
1. Geelong
2. StK
3. WB
4. Ade
5. BL
6. Haw
7. Coll
8. Car
9. WCE
10. Ess
11. Syd
Div 2
1. Melb
2. Port
3. North
4. Rich
5. Fre
6. Tasmania
7. Gold Coast
8. Western Sydney
9. Canberra
10. 3rd WA team
11. Darwin
Each team plays every other team in their division twice (20 rounds in a 22 team AFL).
Bottom 3 of Div 1 and Top 3 of Div 2 play divisional playoffs.
The winners play 6th, 7th and 8th of Div 1 in Finals Playoffs.
Then it becomes the normal finals series. With 6th, 7th and 8th either the bottom 3 teams in the finals or they can be replaced by wildcard sides.
Post-season
D1
Div 2 1st v 11th
D2
Div 2 2nd v 10th
D3
Div 2 3rd v 9th
Finals Playoffs
Winner of D1 v 6th
F2
Winner of D2 v 7th
F3
Winner of D3 v 8th
FINALS SERIES
1st v 4th
EF1
5th v Winner of F3
QF2
2nd v 3rd
EF2
Winner of F1 v Winner of F2
SF1
Winner of EF1 v Loser of QF1
SF2
Winner of EF2 v Loser of QF2
PF1
Winner of QF2 v Winner of SF1
PF2
Winner of QF1 v Winner of SF2
GF
Winner of PF1 v Winner of PF2
The motivation for each side is still the premiership. However, top 3 of Div 2 also strive for Div 1 (which gives them a better shot at the premiership). Furthermore, the matches would be more even as teams play other teams of more equal ability. The Divisional Playoffs for promotion or relegation would be high intensity, with the division for next season on the line. The draft runs as per usual, with the worst side (22nd) getting Pick 1. Of course, 22 teams can only be supported in the future when Aussie rules has taken over Australia.
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The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
- Moderator
- #42
Just because Carlton have picked up some priority picks, doesn't mean that the supporters have to be supportive of the system. I've advocated from the start that they should scrap PPs altogether. That doesn't mean we should on principle refuse one that we had coming to us or give back players that we picked up from one, because you work with the system you have.
Having a pick in the first 2-3 is good enough for being mediocre, having 2 picks is overkill.
... here's a crazy idea.
One division. Before the year with each team at 0-0, each has a theoretical 1/16 (or 18 soon) chance of winning the flag.
Follow the K.I.S.S principle. Don't try and over complicate things and confuse the masses.
One division. Before the year with each team at 0-0, each has a theoretical 1/16 (or 18 soon) chance of winning the flag.
Follow the K.I.S.S principle. Don't try and over complicate things and confuse the masses.
I can't believe this thread is still going. Damned stupid idea that will never happen for reasons too obvious to be bothered with.
just because another sport does something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Why don't we copy basketball and have 5 grand finals. A big no from me. Those teams that get religated would lost a shitload of fans and money and would be to big of a kick in the teeth and they would find it too hard to get going again. AFL is not a meat market anymore where the richest teams win, thank god, a big no to this idea.
Why don't we increase player lists and have a proper reserves comp. Just run the reserves as openers for AFL games. Vested interest in this as Sydney players play in the Canberra league which has to be of a lower level than VFL, SANFL,WAFL. I'm sure there is a reason for not running one,$$?, but it makes sense IMO
Just for the record - that was Newcastle United.
Promoted in the early 1990s and really should have won a title in the Mid 1990s - they were the most exciting team for a time.
But true - it was nearly 20 years ago they got promoted back then.
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